Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion. Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules. |
21st September 2009, 13:30 | #402 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
I only try to explain the reasons why PCM 5.1 is not dvd-video compliant.
There are only two possibilities : it works or it does'nt. I never found a topic where someone explained that he achieved that. It would be a well kept secret if it works, isn't it ? Last edited by Music Fan; 21st September 2009 at 13:32. |
21st September 2009, 14:39 | #403 | Link |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,530
|
You have to examine the DVD-Video spec carefully
Code:
48 kHz or 96 kHz sampling rate, 16 bit or 24 bit L-PCM, 2 to 6 channels, up to 6144 kbit As for 6 channel LPCM, my old Sony supports it, and has 6 analog outputs. But newer players dropped the extra analog outputs. I used it to verify LPCM muxing in MuxMan. Also, the spec allows up to 8 channels, and also supports 20-bit. While I was not able to confirm 7 or 8 channel (due to the lack of those outputs) all other allowable combinations were tested and work. Here is a table of allowable combinations Last edited by mpucoder; 21st September 2009 at 15:30. |
21st September 2009, 16:04 | #404 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
Thanks, very interesting, but how many dvd-video player can read that ?
If they don't have 6 analog outputs, what happens ? I'm astonished that we can put 8 channels because the receivers got only 6 channels when dvd was created. And I've never seen dvd players with 8 analog output. Except some Blu-ray players (which also read dvd) like the Oppo BDP-83, but it arrived a long time after the dvd. Last edited by Music Fan; 21st September 2009 at 16:16. |
21st September 2009, 16:41 | #406 | Link |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,530
|
I've never seen a player with more than 6 analog outputs either. All audio can be transmitted to a receiver via Toslink (fiber optic) or SP/DIF provided it is either 48K sample rate or the disk is not CSS protected. DVD-Video also allows 7.1 mpeg, 6.1 DTS, and 7.1 SDDS, so 8 channels was definitely in the original design, although most receivers were limited to 5.1
If there are only 2 analog outputs they contain a downmix of the audio, this is true regardless of the encoding method. |
21st September 2009, 16:48 | #407 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
Thanks, amazing news !
It's the first time that I see SDDS and dvd in the same sentence ! Does it mean that all dvd-video players can manage SDDS, even if they do a downmix ? Quote:
I believe that we can send 24/96 PCM on SPDIF when it's in stereo. In some players, we can chose in the setup to let it in 96k or downsample it to 48k for the SPDIF output. Last edited by Music Fan; 21st September 2009 at 16:51. |
|
21st September 2009, 17:18 | #408 | Link |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,530
|
OK, here is where things can seem complicated. For LPCM audio the digital outputs contain the PCM audio unmodified, so if the player is in spec it should simply pass the data, be it 16, 20, or 24 bit, 48K or 96K.
For encoding methods where there is an onboard decoder (NTSC requires Dolby Digital, PAL requires Dolby Digital and MPEG, 2 channel minimum) players usually offer a choice of passing the data or passing decoded data as 48K PCM, possibly truncated to 20 or 16 bits, and usually only 2 channels (it all depends on the decoder). For all other encoding methods (DTS and SDDS) the data is sent out unmodified. Onboard DTS is rare, and SDDS non-existent. I don't know of any commercial DVD-Video disk that contains an SDDS track. |
24th September 2009, 05:34 | #410 | Link |
Unavailable
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: offline
Posts: 1,480
|
OK, just for learning purposes, I've just created a 5.1 LPCM audio-only VIDEO_TS folder on a CD-RW with DVD-lab PRO, and tested it on my old LG DVD-player.
Sadly its firmware was designed to NOT SEE above 2 channels of uncompressed audio. Also, the 5.1 analog outputs work only for AC3 streams. I'm afraid there are zero DVD-players that actually have the right to carry the «DVD-VIDEO logo». |
24th September 2009, 08:49 | #411 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
That's why I was afraid that LPCM 5.1 was not dvd-video compliant. And also because we don't see anything in the setup and the manual of dvd-video players about that.
We can say that this format is not welcome by players. But I have done a dvd-video with 5.1 48/16 LPCM and ... it works ! On my Pioneer dv-585, I have sound on all channels with the analog multichannel output (it has no Hdmi output). On my Panasonic DMP-BD35 (which has no analog multichannel output), there is sound on the stereo cinch output, but I don't know if it's a downmix or only the front channels. Same remark for SPDIF output on both players that send only stereo. I have to continue my tests to know exactly if I lose some channels on stero output (cinch and SPDIF) or not. I will record my voice and will say different things in all channels to avoid doubt. And no one of these players show the number of channels ; when I click on "display" or "audio", I see "PCM 48/16" but nor 2.0 neither 5.1, though I see it with ac3, Dts and Dvd-audio (LPCM and PPCM). As my receiver doesn't have Hdmi input, I don't know what happens on Hdmi output (with my BD-35). Last edited by Music Fan; 24th September 2009 at 08:53. |
24th September 2009, 14:02 | #412 | Link | |
Unavailable
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: offline
Posts: 1,480
|
Quote:
What determines the compliance is the DVD-Forum "booklet", not the "statistic normality" of the standalone DVD-players available. Last edited by Midzuki; 24th September 2009 at 14:08. |
|
24th September 2009, 14:22 | #413 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
I know, I wrote "was".
And I agree, but the situation would be so simpler if all players could read all formats included in the norm with which they are compatible. Actually, I'm more disappointed by the lack of communication of the manufacturers than by some limitations. |
26th September 2009, 07:34 | #415 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
There is better than PPCMRipper now.
If you want to extract the tracks, you can use DVDAExplorer ; http://rapidshare.com/files/26919188...2008.07.21.zip If you want to make an exact copy, you can use DVDFab in clone mode ; http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm And you can read the page 21 for some explanations about exact copies. Last edited by Music Fan; 26th September 2009 at 07:38. |
27th September 2009, 10:19 | #416 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5
|
Hi Music Fan
I have tried your exact copies, method. I cant get it to work. How are you so sure that dvdFab keeps the CPPM encryption. I made a copy of my DVD-Audio disc with clone mode, I checked the ISO and the disc with DVDdecrypter and it tells me that there is encrytion on the disc, but no encrytioen on the ISO. Just to be sure, I burned the ISO, and played it on my DVD-Audio player, and as expected, it stopped playing after 30 sec. because of the watermarking. |
27th September 2009, 10:57 | #417 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
Have you ticked "Copy original IFO files" ?
And the MKB file is still there ? If yes, I don't understand what does DvdFab in clone mode. I guess that if you copy in full disc (which removes CPPM for sure), you have the same problem ? Quote:
Have you kept the VIDEO_TS part ? Did you burn with IMGBurn ? Last edited by Music Fan; 27th September 2009 at 11:06. |
|
27th September 2009, 15:09 | #418 | Link | ||
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,743
|
As evoked on this topic, there are maybe 3 kind of players ;
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/751985 Quote:
Quote:
|
||
28th September 2009, 22:03 | #419 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1
|
DVD Audio ripper
I am using dvd flick to burn a movie for me... I downloaded some flv 8min. movies and I got dvd flick to turn them into a dvd movie. The dvd is works good but no sound to them... what am I doing wrong? Is there a audio button I was to press....??? Help please
__________________
watch movies |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|