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Old 22nd August 2012, 21:12   #13741  |  Link
dansrfe
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I feel like we need to have an IRC channel for madVR. #madVR
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Old 22nd August 2012, 23:06   #13742  |  Link
Mangix
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
what is recommended for madvr, leaving vsync to application controlled in CCC settings or rather change it to always on?
application controlled
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Old 23rd August 2012, 10:56   #13743  |  Link
Valdy
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Hi, i'm new to this forum and madvr. Is there a way to take advantage of my 10-bit display with regular (8-bit) blu-ray movies? I think something like 8-bit -> 10-bit on the fly conversion. Is this possible?
Anyway, every movie i have displays like this: h264(or vc-1) 8 bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8-bit 4:2:0. Is this correct? Or is there a way to improve things?

Thanks.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 11:03   #13744  |  Link
Trib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdy View Post
Hi, i'm new to this forum and madvr. Is there a way to take advantage of my 10-bit display with regular (8-bit) blu-ray movies? I think something like 8-bit -> 10-bit on the fly conversion. Is this possible?
Anyway, every movie i have displays like this: h264(or vc-1) 8 bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8-bit 4:2:0. Is this correct? Or is there a way to improve things?

Thanks.
From what I've understood from reading these threads is that a conversion from 8-bit -> 10-bit would just degrade the image quality and not make it better as 8-bit files should be played as 8-bit and 10-bit as 10-bit.

So yes, h264(or vc-1) 8 bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8-bit 4:2:0 is correct.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 14:36   #13745  |  Link
vivan
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"8 bit 4:2:0 -> NV12 8-bit 4:2:0" has nothing to do with output to display. It means that decoder decodes 8 bit 4:2:0 and ouputs it in 8 bit 4:2:0 format to madVR.
"conversion from 8-bit -> 10-bit" on that step can't hurt anything, because it's just adding zeros. However there's also no reasons to do this.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 17:37   #13746  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Not to mention that a) madVR has no 10-bit output support, and b) only professional-grade GPUs support it (and those are pricey)
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Old 23rd August 2012, 20:37   #13747  |  Link
Valdy
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Not to mention that a) madVR has no 10-bit output support, and b) only professional-grade GPUs support it (and those are pricey)
According to amd tech support, radeons can do 10-bit on displayport, hdmi and dual dvi.

Anyway, thanks for the answer for everyone.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 20:42   #13748  |  Link
strumf666
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According to my projector, 6870 I had and 7750 I have connects with 10bit. Using hdmi in both cases.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 22:02   #13749  |  Link
Valdy
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Under scaling algorithms, spline 4 taps is the best for image quality?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 22:22   #13750  |  Link
makakam
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I've read that panasonic vt30 doesn't have full 4 4 4 reproduction but it subsamples it, so the question is should I still use 4 4 4 pixel format or ycbcr 4 2 2 with madvr?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 22:29   #13751  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by strumf666 View Post
According to my projector, 6870 I had and 7750 I have connects with 10bit. Using hdmi in both cases.
The signal may be 10-bit, but your PC only renders 8-bit. Its artificial limitation mostly to get people to buy Quadro or FirePro cards when they need 10-bit for professional graphics work.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 23:41   #13752  |  Link
strumf666
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Hm, what's the point in encoding movies in 10bit then? I am not saying I don't believe you, but needing a 500€ graphics card to play some movies is a ridiculous.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 23:55   #13753  |  Link
detmek
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Up to 20% better compression for same quality and no color banding. That is good reason to encode using 10-bit encoder even if source is 8-bit.
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Old 24th August 2012, 02:07   #13754  |  Link
dukey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The signal may be 10-bit, but your PC only renders 8-bit. Its artificial limitation mostly to get people to buy Quadro or FirePro cards when they need 10-bit for professional graphics work.
I've worked a lot with quadro and other 'professional' cards
I know some years ago you could actually unlock consumer cards to turn them into quadros.
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Old 24th August 2012, 10:29   #13755  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by strumf666 View Post
Hm, what's the point in encoding movies in 10bit then? I am not saying I don't believe you, but needing a 500 graphics card to play some movies is a ridiculous.
You don't need a 10-bit card to play 10-bit content. With proper dithering and a good screen, you won't see much of a difference.

In any case, 99% of all 10-bit encodes are not "real" 10-bit content.
10-bit encoding is only used because it can achieve better compression.
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Old 24th August 2012, 10:39   #13756  |  Link
pie1394
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Originally Posted by detmek View Post
Up to 20% better compression for same quality and no color banding. That is good reason to encode using 10-bit encoder even if source is 8-bit.
I guess it could be a fact that 2 extra bits in color resolution just produces less quantization error for quarter-pel type ME/MC+DCT process.

For the quarter-pel motion-estimation mode, the pixel value could be taken from quartered-sub-pixel position. So it needs 10-bits to represent accurate sub-pixel value from 8-bit source pixel. After the most closest image is found, the residue color difference is processed by Forward DCT.

Yet the fDCT process also needs at least 29-bit temporary data bit resolution for fixed-point data representation. (10-bit input pixel + 16-bit coefficient + 3-bit 8-tap inner-product operation)

So do the motion-compensation + iDCT process.
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Old 24th August 2012, 13:09   #13757  |  Link
G_M_C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You don't need a 10-bit card to play 10-bit content. With proper dithering and a good screen, you won't see much of a difference.

In any case, 99% of all 10-bit encodes are not "real" 10-bit content.
10-bit encoding is only used because it can achieve better compression.
Afaik, you can force 10-bit out on (some?) AMD cards. The option has been in MPC-HT.
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Old 24th August 2012, 16:39   #13758  |  Link
Andy o
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The "10-bit" option in MPC-HC is for the processing of its EVR renderers, much the same as madVR does "16-bit".
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Old 24th August 2012, 17:11   #13759  |  Link
nlnl
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madshi
When madvr renders this sample it detects 3:3 cadence and switches to 23.976 display refresh rate in film mode.
I guess it should switch to 59.94 for this 3:3 cadence?

The sample is silent film and original frame rate is 21.4 fps http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018737/.

The sample: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43376972/Pandora%203-3%20cadence.mkv

Edit:
So if original frame rate is funny 21.4 fps, they should transfer this silent film this way:
21.4 fps -> 19,98p (59,94/3) -> 59,94i (2:2:2 cadence) ?

Last edited by nlnl; 24th August 2012 at 18:44.
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Old 25th August 2012, 21:33   #13760  |  Link
oddball
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I don't know if Madshi is still working on MadVR (been a while since any updates?). But was wondering what he and others thought of this.

http://darbeevision.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1410383/darbee-darblet
http://darbeevision.com/assets/documents/DarbeeVision%20Whitepaper%20with%20Tech%20Details%2020120415.pdf
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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