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Old 10th July 2014, 22:09   #26881  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
It is a special case for Red and White. For 255 red (RGB) Y = 72, V = 255, U = 84, For White Y = 255, U & V = 128. So if you display Red's luma with White's chroma you get dark gray.
Ok, but it's not black, but darkish gray (RGB value 54,54,54, which is some distance away from black). Furthermore this can only happen with Nearest Neighbor interpolation, which no sane person would ever use. With any sort of linear interpolation this won't happen. Instead you'll get a softly blended Luma and Chroma channel. So it will not be Red's luma exactly, but a mixture of Red's and White's luma, and it will also be a mixture of Red's and White's chroma, which should make the resulting color quite a bit brighter.
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Old 10th July 2014, 22:50   #26882  |  Link
dbezerra
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Is there a consensus on Luma Doubling vs quadrupling for 480p source, 1080p target?

Basically, is it better to do
480p -> 1920 -> 1080 via quadrupling and downscaling
480p -> 960 -> 1080 via doubling and upscaling (lanczos AR)
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Old 10th July 2014, 23:18   #26883  |  Link
michkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbezerra View Post
Is there a consensus on Luma Doubling vs quadrupling for 480p source, 1080p target?
In my opinion quadrupling in this case seems like a complete overkill.
Scale factor for 960->1080 is 1.125, so doubling and downscaling it seems pointless.
If you can use doubling with 128 neurons or quadrupling with 32+32 neurons (random numbers, not sure how the performance actually scales), you might actually get better results from more neurons with "only" doubling and perhaps Jinc3+AR instead of Lanczos+AR.
If you have power to spare and can max both doubling and quadrupling, consider the crazy power consumption/heat you'll be getting.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Consider running some tests to see for yourself both the image quality and performance/power consumption implications.
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Old 11th July 2014, 00:03   #26884  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Ah, I should have tested other renderers as well. The problem is in the selection of the "High-performance NVIDIA processor" on the renamed mpc-hc. If I remove the entry from Nvidia's control panel then it works with madVR fine but still uses the integrated gpu. I installed D3D9 from the web installer but that didn't work either.

I'm not sure why I'm having this problem since this is on Windows 8.1 and using the latest beta Nvidia driver.
I'm using Windows 8.1, and the latest Nvidia beta driver (340.42) as well, so I don't think those are the problem. Are you using Windows 64-bit or 32-bit OS?

If you can get to a point where you can pause, right click on a video, and hover over filters - what does it list?

Lets try this to make your registry key. Open a blank text file (notepad or wordpad preferably) and type or paste:

Code:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi\madVR\OpenCL]
"forceVendor"="Nvidia"
save it as a .reg file, and try importing it into your registry.

I'm also thinking you might want to try using a codec/filter repair tool in case you have broken or incorrectly associated codec.

You could try using the codec tweak tool linked below to check for broken filters/codec, and re-associate filters to types of files.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/V...eak-Tool.shtml

After opening the program select:

General: fixes
put a check in detect and remove broken VFW/ACM codecs and detect and remove broken DirectShow filters. (If you want you could also check the re-register base DirectShow filters).

Under Win7DSFilterTweaker Preferred decoders I also recommend settings everything to recommended if given the option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Well, I don't know how to make the NVidia driver work for madVR. madVR doesn't get to pick the GPU used for D3D9. The OS/driver decides which GPU serves which monitor/display. madVR has no way to choose that. So you'll have to find a way to convince the OS or the GPU driver to use the NVidia GPU for MPC-HC/madVR. For most other users it seems that renaming the MPC-HC EXE file does the trick. If that doesn't work for you, then I don't know how to make it work. I don't have access to a shared NVidia/Intel laptop, so I've no experience with this.
Something that perplexes me about his attempts to get it working is the fact that the system isn't adding the the GPU in the OpenCL part of the madVR registry even after adding the force vendor key we used to use. You didn't disable that did you? (does it only add the OpenCL directory if someone enables an OpenCL feature like using NNEDI3 for doubling or chroma upscaling?)
Oddly he doesn't seem to be the only one encountering this type of problem right now. Its also been reported by someone else here:
http://haruhichan.com/forum/showthre...ll=1#post41448
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 11th July 2014 at 00:16. Reason: NNEDI3 to get the key question added
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Old 11th July 2014, 01:04   #26885  |  Link
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I added the reg key again, just to make sure. I ran the fixes in the codec tweak tool as well as selected the recommended preferred decoders. I also had previouly disabled Media Foundation and MS Codec Tweaks in Win7DSFilterTweaker.

Upon selecting NNEDI3 for image upscaling, the graphics card key was added under OpenCL, "GeForce GT 750M" with Binary (binary), DriverVersion (string), and KernelCRC (DWORD) inside.

However, the same problem remains as pointed out by the other thread up there as well. Black screen, madVR OSD frozen, audio working. However now I can close the player and MPC-HC and madVR exit gracefully without the need to manually kill the processes.

Filters currently loaded:
- DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Defi...
- madVR
- LAV Audio Decoder (internal)
- LAV Video Decoder (internal)
- LAV Splitter Source (internal)

Last edited by dansrfe; 11th July 2014 at 01:06.
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Old 11th July 2014, 01:38   #26886  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, but it's not black, but darkish gray (RGB value 54,54,54, which is some distance away from black). Furthermore this can only happen with Nearest Neighbor interpolation, which no sane person would ever use. With any sort of linear interpolation this won't happen. Instead you'll get a softly blended Luma and Chroma channel. So it will not be Red's luma exactly, but a mixture of Red's and White's luma, and it will also be a mixture of Red's and White's chroma, which should make the resulting color quite a bit brighter.
I am only thinking about how the artifacts are created in the first place, why AR and/or LL (edit: with downscaling) exaggerate them I cannot explain.

But when using a very sharp resize for luma (like NNEDI) and a softer resize for chroma (anything else) it makes sense the chroma would blur more. Luma isn't blurred very much while chroma is so the border red pixels don't get their luma lightened as much as they get their chroma whitened. I hope that made sense.

Of course the border white pixels get their chroma reddened more then their luma darkened too but that is a light pink so it is not very noticeable.

Last edited by Asmodian; 11th July 2014 at 03:29.
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Old 11th July 2014, 07:45   #26887  |  Link
Neeto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I added the reg key again, just to make sure. I ran the fixes in the codec tweak tool as well as selected the recommended preferred decoders. I also had previouly disabled Media Foundation and MS Codec Tweaks in Win7DSFilterTweaker.

Upon selecting NNEDI3 for image upscaling, the graphics card key was added under OpenCL, "GeForce GT 750M" with Binary (binary), DriverVersion (string), and KernelCRC (DWORD) inside.

However, the same problem remains as pointed out by the other thread up there as well. Black screen, madVR OSD frozen, audio working. However now I can close the player and MPC-HC and madVR exit gracefully without the need to manually kill the processes.

Filters currently loaded:
- DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Defi...
- madVR
- LAV Audio Decoder (internal)
- LAV Video Decoder (internal)
- LAV Splitter Source (internal)
It looks like you're using he internal decoder/splitter.
On different occations in the past I've found subtile behaviour differences using the external versions. i.e. disable ALL the itnernall decoders/splitters etc.
It might be worth a try.
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Old 11th July 2014, 11:00   #26888  |  Link
ajp2k11
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I've had a problem with MadVR for quite some time now (not sure when it started, maybe with upgrade to Win8) where most files have trouble playing. Most files just play the sound with a black screen, somtimes after quite a while (up to a minute) the picture appears but most of the time the audio hangs too after a while. If I try to go full screen or fast forward MPC-HC hangs.

I'm not sure it's the exact problem though because my system is much more modest and based on AMD graphics (6650M). It sounds similar enough though....


Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I added the reg key again, just to make sure. I ran the fixes in the codec tweak tool as well as selected the recommended preferred decoders. I also had previouly disabled Media Foundation and MS Codec Tweaks in Win7DSFilterTweaker.

Upon selecting NNEDI3 for image upscaling, the graphics card key was added under OpenCL, "GeForce GT 750M" with Binary (binary), DriverVersion (string), and KernelCRC (DWORD) inside.

However, the same problem remains as pointed out by the other thread up there as well. Black screen, madVR OSD frozen, audio working. However now I can close the player and MPC-HC and madVR exit gracefully without the need to manually kill the processes.

Filters currently loaded:
- DirectSound: Speakers (Realtek High Defi...
- madVR
- LAV Audio Decoder (internal)
- LAV Video Decoder (internal)
- LAV Splitter Source (internal)
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Old 11th July 2014, 11:20   #26889  |  Link
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Would recommend jumping on the bug tracker and creating a reporting an issue.
Having madshi look at a log would probably be the quickest way of resolving this..

Does changing the refresh rate do anything? Have you tried uninstalling and deleting the drivers in devicemanager and then reinstalling?
make sure use separate device is unchecked.

Last edited by ryrynz; 11th July 2014 at 11:29.
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Old 11th July 2014, 11:32   #26890  |  Link
madshi
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FWIW, the bug tracker is for suspected bugs in madVR. dansrfe's problem sounds more like an OS/driver problem or misconfiguration to me, to be honest. These NVidia Optimus systems seem to be a bitch to get to work sometimes, it seems. Although most users seem to have it running fine. It's ridiculous that you have to rename the MPC-HC exe file to have any chance to use the NVidia GPU in the first place. None of this is madVR's fault, from what I can see. That said, I can of course look at a log. Maybe I can see something...
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Old 11th July 2014, 14:27   #26891  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
These NVidia Optimus systems seem to be a bitch to get to work sometimes
I've found a number of reports of the same issue over the years with nobody having reported resolving it, with two people having the issue could be good to finally sort it out I guess.
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Old 11th July 2014, 15:42   #26892  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
However, the same problem remains as pointed out by the other thread up there as well. Black screen, madVR OSD frozen, audio working. However now I can close the player and MPC-HC and madVR exit gracefully without the need to manually kill the processes.
I can't recall if you've already been asked and answered this questions before, but does the same problem occur regardless of if you are playing the video(s) in its/their native resolution window size as well as fullscreen? If it occurs at the video(s) normal window size then we can probably rule out the scaling algorithms as a factor.

Likewise try changing MPC to EVR custom preset from madVR to see if that can rule out both madVR and/or LAV as being related to the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I've found a number of reports of the same issue over the years with nobody having reported resolving it, with two people having the issue could be good to finally sort it out I guess.
There is a driver bug that has existed for a long time, and you may be seeing past reports related to that as opposed to this specific issue being discussed now. I used to have that NNEDI3 driver related issue, but madshi found a work around for the driver bug. I have an Optimus system, and don't currently have any of the types of problems discussed so its not necessarily an Optimus system issue since its not occurring on all systems at this point.
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 11th July 2014 at 21:07. Reason: merged posts
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Old 11th July 2014, 16:05   #26893  |  Link
dansrfe
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I uninstalled the device driver from Device Manager and re-installed the latest beta Nvidia driver with clean installation selected. I also tried setting Auto-Zoom to 100% to prevent any Image scaling and the same black screen with audio persists.

Here is an attached log: https://www.sendspace.com/file/dij2vd. For some reason I'm still having to manually kill both MPC-HC and madVR again when I need to exit.

Also, madVR is reporting that Overlay is not supported on this GPU in the OSD when Overlay mode is selected. Because of that the above log is in Windowed mode. If I attempt to FSE then madVR's OSD freezes, becomes blurred and extra large.

This seems like an MPC-HC or OS/Driver level problem to me. I can manually select High-performance NVIDIA processor for any other application (including Chrome) and the selected app works as expected including any Flash/HTML5 players. However the fact that madVR detected the GPU and stored the key under OpenCL when I had temporarily selected NNEDI3 under image doubling (any scale) makes me believe that MPC-HC is probably the culprit.

Last edited by dansrfe; 11th July 2014 at 16:08.
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Old 11th July 2014, 16:43   #26894  |  Link
madshi
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Two strange things in that log: (1) VSync position information doesn't seem to be coming from the GPU driver. (2) For some reason the decoder doesn't seem to send more than 1 frame.

Don't know, maybe (2) is a consequence of (1) somehow, although I don't know why it would. In any case, (1) seems to be a GPU driver problem.
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Old 11th July 2014, 17:56   #26895  |  Link
dansrfe
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FWIW, when I manually switch to Integrated Graphics in Nvidia's Control Panel for the renamed mpc-hc, madVR and MPC-HC work as expected.

However if I set it to Auto (Integrated graphics) or High-performance NVIDIA processor, MPC-HC/madVR/all other renderers freeze. The decoder only gives one frame as madshi mentioned as well.

Another interesting observation, when I run madLevelsTweaker, it only lists the GPU as Intel HD Graphics 4600. I'm not even sure how to force 0-255 on the Nvidia output.

Last edited by dansrfe; 11th July 2014 at 18:12.
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Old 11th July 2014, 18:23   #26896  |  Link
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Also re-install the Intel drivers.

Have you tried any games or other Direct3D applications?
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Old 11th July 2014, 18:34   #26897  |  Link
dbezerra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
In my opinion quadrupling in this case seems like a complete overkill.
Scale factor for 960->1080 is 1.125, so doubling and downscaling it seems pointless.
If you can use doubling with 128 neurons or quadrupling with 32+32 neurons (random numbers, not sure how the performance actually scales), you might actually get better results from more neurons with "only" doubling and perhaps Jinc3+AR instead of Lanczos+AR.
If you have power to spare and can max both doubling and quadrupling, consider the crazy power consumption/heat you'll be getting.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Consider running some tests to see for yourself both the image quality and performance/power consumption implications.

Thanks. I will play with it during the weekend.

Another question - Looking back at this thread I saw debates over PCI-E version for AMD cards, but what about NVidia? Would an old PCI-E 1.1 impact performance? Or even 1.1 is fine for NVidia based cards?

Last edited by dbezerra; 11th July 2014 at 18:44.
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Old 11th July 2014, 19:14   #26898  |  Link
dansrfe
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Also re-install the Intel drivers.

Have you tried any games or other Direct3D applications?
Uninstalled the Intel HD Graphics 4600 device driver from the Device Manager and installed the latest beta driver from Intel. The Intel driver control panel interface got upgraded but aside from that, same problem.

I haven't tried any games or Direct3D applications yet. Is there a test application I can run that would determine if the everything is working as expected on the driver side?

Last edited by dansrfe; 11th July 2014 at 19:22.
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Old 11th July 2014, 19:17   #26899  |  Link
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Originally Posted by dbezerra View Post
Thanks. I will play with it during the weekend.

Another question - Looking back at this thread I saw debates over PCI-E version for AMD cards, but what about NVidia? Would an old PCI-E 1.1 impact performance? Or even 1.1 is fine for NVidia based cards?
1.1 should be fine for nvidia and MadVR usage.
this issue has something to do how AMD handle d3d <-> opencl (for nnedi/error diffusion) data transfer
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Old 11th July 2014, 21:11   #26900  |  Link
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Uninstalled the Intel HD Graphics 4600 device driver from the Device Manager and installed the latest beta driver from Intel. The Intel driver control panel interface got upgraded but aside from that, same problem.
Checking that your Intel gpu driver was updated was going to be my next recommendation, but I see you've now done that with out it making a difference.

Do you have all the available Windows critical updates (detected by Windows Update) installed? Are you using 64-bit Windows, or 32-bit Windows?


Since madshi pointed out v-sync issues based on the log it may be worth experimenting with those settings in Nvidia control panel. The default should be "Use global settings (Use the 3D application to settings)". First try it with that configured to off for the mpc file under program settings. If that doesn't work try forcing it as on (even though mpc/madVR usually doesn't listen to Nvidia's instructions for v-sync). Also check your Intel V-sync setting(s). On my system its listed under Intel HD Control Panel -> 3d, and Vertical Sync is set to driver settings (but you can try with application settings selected and see if that makes a difference).
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 11th July 2014 at 21:22.
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