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30th November 2017, 14:32 | #361 | Link |
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Mozilla Blog: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/11/da...-of-av1-video/
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1st December 2017, 18:46 | #363 | Link | |
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-26.51% for VOD PSNR-Y but only -23.57% for MS-SSIM. And no metrics that include any temporal component. I'd love to see at least VMAF scores, which is the metric most predictive of DMOS that we have today. The VPx series was always heavily tuned to optimize for PSNR, so its theoretical PSNR always overstated the series' actual perceptual quality. At least since VP6, which had a lot of advanced postprocessing technology that did a good job of hiding artifacts in a lot of ways. |
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1st December 2017, 20:35 | #364 | Link | ||
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Also audio is Opus @ 32 kbps. Opus is the best available audio codec right now though 32 kbps is low. Opus @ 48 kbps has much better quality which makes more sense for 720p streams (and 64-96+ kbps for 1080p) |
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4th December 2017, 23:04 | #365 | Link | |
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I can't wait for upcoming opus 1.3 alpha/beta release! |
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5th December 2017, 16:41 | #366 | Link | |
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7th December 2017, 00:15 | #367 | Link | |
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It just takes a whole lot of development that's out of scope of defining a bitstream to get those gains. Codec development focused on PSNR @ Constant QP also runs the risk of over optimizing for a design where QP correlates highly with PSNR. |
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7th December 2017, 11:51 | #368 | Link | |
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The fact that AV1 does well when compared to x265 with a five year head start is neat, but I won't deny the fact that this was a somewhat rushed development. My guess is most desirable features and improvements will only come with AV2, when the Alliance have most of the development kinks worked out. |
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10th December 2017, 13:52 | #369 | Link | |
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Then there is the law of diminishing return, a lot of the improvement and progress made in x264 and x265 took years to fine tune. It wasn't long ago x264 was still beating x265 at high bitrate encoding. |
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10th December 2017, 15:26 | #370 | Link | ||
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I doubt that there'll be any interest in adopting AV2 if it ever gets finished. By then AV1 will be pretty well optimized and AV2 won't offer any improvement of particular significance. |
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11th December 2017, 17:56 | #371 | Link | |
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It's a bit like squeezing out everything from current microprocessors and other modern technology, eventually you simply reach what is actually possible without going off into ridiculous complexity/cost. Daala is a good codec with a different design, but doesn't have a huge benefit over HEVC/AV1. Same with wavelets. I doubt the Alliance will release a new codec if they can't make it at least 30% better than AV1. If there is no AV2, we will at least have a solid codec that is royalty free to depend on. Nothing wrong with a long lasting standard when you don't have to replace hardware/software and re-encode everything. |
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11th December 2017, 18:36 | #372 | Link | |
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I think alternative approaches are sorely under-researched. Not much effort was put into wavelets, even less into Daala's overlapped transformation before it was dopped. |
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15th December 2017, 18:30 | #373 | Link | ||
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If we started with J2K instead of JPEG, and had all the motion estimation work done based around wavelets, hundreds of PhDs and developers could have found the magic way. And then someone with a crazy block-based codec idea would have run out of funding at just full-pel motion search, and we'd say "yeah, blocks were kind of interesting, but just never proved to be competitive." Last edited by benwaggoner; 15th December 2017 at 18:44. Reason: fix quote |
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19th December 2017, 09:55 | #374 | Link |
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Took a while but here is the Google update on AV1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBAH...aqcvb0&index=7 |
19th December 2017, 11:23 | #375 | Link | |
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4th January 2018, 22:19 | #376 | Link |
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Hell has frozen over...... Apple has quietly joined AOM as a founding member: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-onli...mpression-av1/
Last edited by hajj_3; 4th January 2018 at 22:22. |
4th January 2018, 22:30 | #377 | Link |
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How can you join as a "founding member" this late?
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
4th January 2018, 23:17 | #378 | Link |
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I presume founding members pay more money and probably have more voting rights. AOM obviously wanted Apple to join badly as having a single codec for all future smartphones and tablets would be extremely beneficial for everyone.
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5th January 2018, 03:43 | #380 | Link |
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That's not a safe assumption. Supporting a standards organization and adopting the standard in your own products and services are two separate decisions. Companies may have many different motivations for the first decision. But it's low risk. They only make the second, much more expensive decision based on a careful cost/benefit analysis for each product line (or in Apple's case, for each platform). It took Apple 4 1/2 years from the time HEVC was standardized until it announced broad support for HEVC (and AV1 is not yet finalized, as far as I know). Apple joining the Alliance for Open Media may actually end up helping HEVC adoption, as AV1 (or the threat of a major platform owner like Apple actually adopting AV1) provides a strong counter-balancing force to convince HEVC patent holders to avoid unreasonable patent license demands. HEVC doesn't need to be free to all implementers to succeed, but it definitely needs to be reasonable, and the work of the Alliance for Open Media is very helpful to the overall cause of enabling advanced encoding standards at reasonable costs. Only time will tell how it all plays out.
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