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Old 5th December 2012, 10:21   #15981  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
I can't see anything wrong in the log, except that the rendering of the first two frames takes 113ms and 56ms. All remaining frames are rendered in < 5ms. Not sure why this happens.

Does madVR v0.85.1 behave differently on your PC? You do not have that 0.5 seconds of transparent window with v0.85.1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Ouh, messing with colorimetry blindly without a meter? All I know is that the brightness/contrast/saturation settings all seem to work fine in PotP but these can't convert levels apparently so I don't really understand their point.
If you don't find these controls useful, you don't have to use them... I'll probably not use the "display color control" settings myself, but some people might find them useful, what do I know. I've added them for completeness sake and because some displays do not have good controls for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
The custom levels hotkeys are great news though, but pressing the same hotkeys 20/30 times in a row(for really broken encodes) doesn't really sound too manageable
Well, you can press the key and hold it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetA13 View Post
Thanks so much for this option..i always had probs with the standart ranges on my hdtv, now with custom settings (10 - 255) its PERFECT..
madvr is now the best renderer out there for me..nothing can beat it in tearms of quality, functionality and more..


Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I'm not sure how I feel about the "contrast" adjustment - it seems like it might not be done with much precision, or it's just highlighting compression etc. very quickly.
It's done with the highest precision the GPU allows (32bit float). I'm not sure myself how useful such a contrast adjustment is, but it does exactly what it's supposed to do (from what I can see). Maybe nobody will use it, but it's there, because all the color control dialogs have a contrast setting, so I need to offer some algorithm for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
However, I still don't find DXVA2 to be much use on Nvidia. It's basically Bilinear scaling with a sharpening filter applied, and render times are still very high for how it looks.

With 1080p at 2x, I get 6ms for Bilinear Chroma & Luma.
With DXVA2 I get a large spike at the start of playback (over 1100ms) and then it settles at 56ms.

DXVA2 also has worse image quality than Bilinear Luma & Chroma in madVR due to the increased ringing and aliasing from the sharpening used.

With 1080p at 2x, I can run Bicubic 75 AR Chroma with Lanczos 3 Luma at 37ms total, or with Mitchell-Netravali Luma for 27ms.
Ok, seems DXVA scaling is not all that useful for NVidia users. But for Intel users, the situation is very different, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
If I understand things correctly, if I set LAV Video to "DXVA2 Native" you now perform your own "copy-back" function, instead of using LAV Video's copy-back function, is that right?

From a two minute sample clip:

DXVA2 N: 84% GPU, 72% MCU, 24% VPU peak usage.
DXVA2CB: 83% GPU, 71% MCU, 20% VPU peak usage.
That's correct. Hmmmm... I wonder why Native consumes more GPU power than Callback. Anyway, what does CPU usage say? Is it higher with Native, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I don't think I have any examples to hand, but there have definitely been one or two films in the last year that I've seen where a slight gamma bump would be useful. (-contrast in the new controls)
Gamma change would be "brightness", not "contrast".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Why the need for brightness/contrast settings? I already calibrate with a Spyder 2
Well, you don't have to use the madVR brightness/contrast settings. Just set them to 0, then madVR will even disable the shader code, so there's no disadvantage for you.

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Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
I understand that it is ideal to have the doubled framerate, but if I can't manage it without dropped frames, I would prefer to not have it if possible.
In this case, yea, I think film mode would be appropriate, but I can't get it to work without changing the fps to 50p. Do I have to turn off deinterlacing first?
The problem is that deinterlacing in half framerate will also seriously damage deinterlacing quality. So I don't think offering that is a good idea. Film mode only works with software decoding (or CUDA or "copyback" in LAV). It doesn't work when using native DXVA2 decoding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
With MS DTV-DVD decoder + madVR 0.82.5 + Bi-linear Chroma (actually DXVA2 scaling ?) + DXVA2 Luma scaling + DXVA2 deinterlace, SandyBridge Core i5-2467M (1.6GHz, Turbo Boost 2.3GHz) + HD3000 is now capable of processing 1440x1080i30 --> 1920x1080p60 FSE. I think this is an important achievement for madVR to be useful on less powerful GPU HW.


And colors are alright? FWIW, this way you only get 8bit YCbCr to RGB conversion with the current Intel drivers, unfortunately. I hope this will be fixed with a future Intel driver version. And yes, chroma upsampling is done by Intel/DXVA2 in this configuration, too.

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Originally Posted by toniash View Post
1-The "device controls" colour ,brigthness , etc appear grey and do nothing, I'm I missing something?
The edit boxes are grey, but the left/right buttons should work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toniash View Post
2- Where can I find the names for "special" keys to use in shortcuts?
the keystrokes are not detected I must write them
Here's a list of currently supported special keys. Your keyboard may not have all of these keys:

Code:
Back, Tab, Clear, Return, Pause, Break, Esc, Space, PageUp, PageDown, End, Home, Left, Up, Right, Down,
Select, Print, Execute, Insert, Delete, Help, Win, Apps, Sleep, NumPad0..9, Multiply, Add, Decimal, Substract, Divide, 
F1-F24, NumLock, Scroll, BrowserBack, BrowserForward, BrowserRefresh, BrowserStop, BrowserSearch, BrowserFavorites, BrowserHome, 
VolumeMute, VolumeDown, VolumeUp, MediaNextTrack, MediaPrevTrack, MediaStop, MediaPlayPause, 
LaunchMail, LaunchMediaSelect, LaunchApp1, LaunchApp2, Play, Zoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by manma View Post
Is it normal for madvr to make your GPU usage shoot up intermittently while watching a video? Like, say I get 30 minutes of smooth playback, and then out of nowhere my GPU usage jumps up to 99% and madvr starts dropping frames every which way. I can't seem to pinpoint the "type" of video it does this too either. It just seems random. If it matters, I'm having this problem on both my GTX 460 and my Intel HD3000 (Jinc4 on the former and Spline3 on the latter).
No, this is not normal at all. Maybe you have some other applications which use the GPU? E.g. some newer browsers do. Or maybe some software like SETI running in the background?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disto View Post
Thank You madshi for all of your work.I have one feature request.Can you please add an option for custom Gamma correction like you did for brightness and saturation.Maybe something with slider or something like ffdshow or potplayer.
madVR "brightness" control = Gamma adjustments.
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Old 5th December 2012, 10:27   #15982  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The problem is that deinterlacing in half framerate will also seriously damage deinterlacing quality. So I don't think offering that is a good idea.
The way this works in CUVID is that it always deinterlaces at full rate, but discards one of those instead of using it for output. The quality is the same, you just lose some of the smoothness.

Not sure if thats a viable alternatve for madVR. Deinterlacing stays the same, but it essentially "drops" half of the frames to reduce the load on madVRs processing.
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Old 5th December 2012, 11:38   #15983  |  Link
omarank
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Hi Madshi

In MPC-HC, I can rotate an image by pressing Alt + Num 1, when using EVR-CP. When I use madVR, the key combination doesn't work. It seems madVR does not allow image rotation. Could you please implement that functionality too?
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Old 5th December 2012, 11:59   #15984  |  Link
toniash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR "brightness" control = Gamma adjustments.
so what is different in "source brigthness" and "desired display gamma value" shortcuts?
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Old 5th December 2012, 12:25   #15985  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The way this works in CUVID is that it always deinterlaces at full rate, but discards one of those instead of using it for output. The quality is the same, you just lose some of the smoothness.

Not sure if thats a viable alternatve for madVR. Deinterlacing stays the same, but it essentially "drops" half of the frames to reduce the load on madVRs processing.
Yeah, that might be a possibility. It's a bit sad, though, to let DXVA do all the heavy lifting to create those nicely deinterlaced frames, just to throw them away again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by omarank View Post
In MPC-HC, I can rotate an image by pressing Alt + Num 1, when using EVR-CP. When I use madVR, the key combination doesn't work. It seems madVR does not allow image rotation. Could you please implement that functionality too?
It's on my to do list. But not with a very high priority at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toniash View Post
so what is different in "source brigthness" and "desired display gamma value" shortcuts?
The "desired display gamma value" is for setting up your display. You should in theory do that once and then leave the setting alone. The "source brightness" is meant to allow you to improve badly encoded movies. E.g. if one specific movie was encoded too brightly, just increase the "source brightness". madVR will automatically reset the "source brightness" changes you do when you load the next video, so you don't have to remember to reset the controls manually after the movie has finished playing.
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Old 5th December 2012, 14:04   #15986  |  Link
DragonQ
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I'm interested to know what kind of hardware can't handle proper deinterlacing to 50p/60p (besides broken Arrandale of course ). A low-end nVidia GT 430 can handle it perfectly well. That'd have to be some ancient Radeon....either that or he's chosen algorithms too demanding for his GPU, in which case it'd surely be better to choose a less demanding algorithm than lose half of the temporal resolution of the image.
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Last edited by DragonQ; 5th December 2012 at 14:12.
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Old 5th December 2012, 14:07   #15987  |  Link
leeperry
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BTW, I've just been informed that the new version of PotP that will support PS scripts with mVR hasn't been planned for release yet and that we shouldn't hold our breath for it.....sometimes they release new versions on a daily basis, but when it really matters it might take them forever.....c'est la vie I guess =/

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, you can press the key and hold it.
I never keep a keyboard within hands reach, so that wouldn't help...I guess I'll try to make a few PS scripts presets for levels conversions then.

Also, the OSD doesn't seem to tell about the custom levels current state so playing around with levels blindly doesn't sound too good to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I find having keyboard shortcuts to directly adjust saturation quite useful.
Good point, and if I keep the .ini file of PotP read-only I can play around with its saturation setting....too bad increments are 1% at a time.

Last edited by leeperry; 5th December 2012 at 14:32.
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Old 5th December 2012, 14:16   #15988  |  Link
pie1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yeah, that might be a possibility. It's a bit sad, though, to let DXVA do all the heavy lifting to create those nicely deinterlaced frames, just to throw them away again...
If I don't turn on frame-rate-doubling deinterlace, the 1440x1080i25/i30 & 1920x1080i25/i30 video presented by madVR + 1920x1080i25/i30 output signal obviously has something wrong. One field is always presented with the wrong contents. Anybody who has a native 1080i CRT / PDP HDTV can tell it.

Turn it on and still makes the GPU to send out 1920x1080i25/i30, this does not hurt the PQ (especially vertical resolution to me). For each frame, the deinterlaced field is actually never sent to TV.

About this I remembered long time ago when my HTPC was XP + 8800GTS, it worked fine. These MPEG2 HDTV contents can be sent to VMR9 with weaving option (no deinterlace) at 100% zooming case when the output signal is 1920x1080i25/i30. Of course the field-mode-scaling on Chroma components must be used to make a YUV/RGB 4:4:4 field image.

Just remembered such kinds of analysis were actually implemented on a product's deinterlacing engine designed by me long time ago. At that time, it needs to handle various NTSC / PAL / SDTV / HDTV input signal devices for interlaced contents. So a source interlaced video frame may not be actually deinterlaced on interlaced CRT/PDP. If video frame is deinterlaced and progressive signal is sent to such TV, the PQ is actually worse. But there are many combinations which need to be considered including source field order, output mode, scaling factor, pausing state, trick play, etc...


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
And colors are alright? FWIW, this way you only get 8bit YCbCr to RGB conversion with the current Intel drivers, unfortunately. I hope this will be fixed with a future Intel driver version. And yes, chroma upsampling is done by Intel/DXVA2 in this configuration, too.
At least it looks much closer if compared to the one produced by version 0.85.1 on ION chipset.

madVR 0.85.2 Luma - Bilinear




madVR 0.85.2 Luma - DXVA




madVR 0.85.1 Luma - DXVA


Last edited by pie1394; 5th December 2012 at 14:38.
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Old 5th December 2012, 14:51   #15989  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I really hoped that going from Lanczos 4 (original default) to Lanczos 3 would allow me to activate AR by default, but maybe you're right and it's too taxing. However, from HD 4000 reports it seems that Lanczos 3 AR is not really a problem. So the big quesion is which hardware to use as reference.
my hd 4000 handle 720x480 -> 1920x1080 luma jinc 3 ar chroma mitchell-netravali ar with 34 ms so lanczos 3 ar is no problem at all.

but i think the hd 4000 is a bad reference most people who get a cpu with that card get an extra gpu too. at least thous who watch videos on it the rest will use the cpu for cpu heavy programs.

a hd 2000/hd 3000 or a4 apu gpu is maybe a better reference.

and how about an audio renderer which works hand in hand with madvr to get rig of the frame drop repeat problem by resampling the audio

by upsampling the audio to the max the audiocard supports

like 48032 to 96000

so madvr runs 100% smooth without reclock and out of the box.
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Old 5th December 2012, 14:59   #15990  |  Link
leeperry
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how about an audio renderer which works hand in hand with madvr to get rig of the frame drop
It took years to get Reclock and mVR where they are, and Reclock "works". Of course it doesn't if you enable framerate pulldown in mVR, but that's the only limitation AFAIK.
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:02   #15991  |  Link
DragonQ
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You could add a very small wizard that simply asks what the user's GPU is and then set recommended scalars based on that. Might be easier to auto-detect though.
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:06   #15992  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
It took years to get Reclock and mVR where they are, and Reclock "works". Of course it doesn't if you enable framerate pulldown in mVR, but that's the only limitation AFAIK.
if is that hard i'm sorry then it's better to skip that topic completely
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:12   #15993  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can't see anything wrong in the log, except that the rendering of the first two frames takes 113ms and 56ms. All remaining frames are rendered in < 5ms. Not sure why this happens.
0.85.1 seems to suffer from the same problem. Also had the problem where the playback does not start with LAV Video come back. MPC-HC's decoder still seems to work fine, but I have great trouble making it 100% reproducable. I have a feeling both problems are connected. It's like a frame is requested from the dxva2 decoder and it either takes very long for it to come or it doesn't come at all.
I will revert to the stable Catalyst later, since I can't remember having this problem with 0.85.1 before, and report back. (I should've done this from the beginning. Updating driver and madVR at the same time is obviously a bad idea for testing.)

Maybe I will also create a seeking sample to better test seeking in the future, unless something like this already exists.

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 5th December 2012 at 15:15.
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:13   #15994  |  Link
leeperry
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BTW going back to the BenQ W1070, these two youtube videos look pretty outstanding and rather enticing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99uhuBXTWmU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOWE4j0W9JU

Resistance is futile

Last edited by leeperry; 6th December 2012 at 03:37.
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:26   #15995  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
but i think the hd 4000 is a bad reference most people who get a cpu with that card get an extra gpu too. at least thous who watch videos on it the rest will use the cpu for cpu heavy programs.

a hd 2000/hd 3000 or a4 apu gpu is maybe a better reference.
Every Ivy Bridge laptop has at least a HD4000. Every Sandy Bridge laptop has at least a HD3000.
HD2000 is a useless reference, because it only exists on desktops without an external GPU. Not sure if HD2500 is more popular in HTPCs.
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:30   #15996  |  Link
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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
I'm interested to know what kind of hardware can't handle proper deinterlacing to 50p/60p (besides broken Arrandale of course ). A low-end nVidia GT 430 can handle it perfectly well. That'd have to be some ancient Radeon....either that or he's chosen algorithms too demanding for his GPU, in which case it'd surely be better to choose a less demanding algorithm than lose half of the temporal resolution of the image.
weird, with my gt430, if i activate the madvr deinterlacing on either setting, it becomes a slideshow. However the cuvid deinterlace to 60p works perfectly. :-/

i have tried this with dvds, xvid, and h264, same result.

i'm curious what the issue is there, but the videos are getting deinterlaced using cuvid, so not a huge issue.
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:43   #15997  |  Link
manma
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No, this is not normal at all. Maybe you have some other applications which use the GPU? E.g. some newer browsers do. Or maybe some software like SETI running in the background?
I guess it could be Firefox. I'll see if I can track it down.
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Old 5th December 2012, 17:26   #15998  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
And colors are alright? FWIW, this way you only get 8bit YCbCr to RGB conversion with the current Intel drivers, unfortunately. I hope this will be fixed with a future Intel driver version. And yes, chroma upsampling is done by Intel/DXVA2 in this configuration, too.
what specifically causes the 8 bit conversion in his case?
the use of the microsoft decoder, dxva in general, or dxva scaling?
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Old 5th December 2012, 17:28   #15999  |  Link
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DXVA scaling on Intel results in 8-bit RGB, AMD and NVIDIA output high bitdepth RGB.
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Old 5th December 2012, 17:39   #16000  |  Link
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the chroma upsampling being done by intel/dxva2 is also a result of dxva scaling on intel?
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