High bitrate/quality CQMs used on Bluray

[bond]

Thanks to two colleagues i got my hand on the NAL info for two bluray titles using custom quant matrices:

The Prestige (Disney / Buena Vista) has the cqm stored in PPS
X-Men 3 (20th Century Fox) has the cqm stored in SPS
I guess they were produced by different encoders

If someone has some time to spend he might convert them into .cfg standard style cqm files

[*.mp4 guy]

Prestige CQM:

#Prestige CQM

INTRA4X4_LUMA =
6,7,10,16,
7,7,11,17,
10,11,12,20,
12,13,20,16

INTRA4X4_CHROMAU =
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16

INTRA4X4_CHROMAV =
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16

INTER4X4_LUMA =
10,13,28,41,
13,14,32,84,
28,32,41,111,
41,46,111,16

INTER4X4_CHROMAU =
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16

INTER4X4_CHROMAV =
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16,
16,16,16,16

INTRA8X8_LUMA =
9,9,10,10,11,16,21,29,
9,9,10,10,11,16,21,29,
10,10,10,10,11,16,22,31,
10,10,10,11,11,17,23,33,
11,11,11,11,11,19,25,36,
12,12,13,13,14,20,27,40,
15,15,16,16,21,27,31,45,
20,20,21,22,36,40,45,16

INTER8X8_LUMA =
12,13,15,18,20,70,163,255,
13,13,16,18,20,72,170,255,
15,16,17,19,21,81,190,255,
18,18,19,21,23,96,228,255,
20,20,21,23,25,120,255,255,
33,34,36,39,45,32,255,255,
64,66,71,80,164,255,255,255,
151,155,169,192,255,255,255,10

Prestige 8X8 matrices look like this:

The 4X4 luma matrices look like smaller counterparts, there are no chroma matrices.




Xmen3 CQM:

#Xmen3 CQM

INTRA4X4_LUMA =
5,9,23,32,
9,12,32,32,
23,32,32,32,
32,32,32,32

INTRA4X4_CHROMAU =
5,9,23,32,
9,12,32,32,
23,32,32,32,
32,32,32,32

INTRA4X4_CHROMAV =
5,9,23,32,
9,12,32,32,
23,32,32,32,
32,32,32,32

INTER4X4_LUMA =
9,13,20,24,
13,20,24,29,
20,24,29,29,
24,29,29,29

INTER4X4_CHROMAU =
9,13,20,24,
13,20,24,29,
20,24,29,29,
24,29,29,29

INTER4X4_CHROMAV =
9,13,20,24,
13,20,24,29,
20,24,29,29,
24,29,29,29

INTRA8X8_LUMA =
5,8,11,15,19,26,32,32,
8,9,15,19,26,32,32,32,
11,15,19,26,32,32,32,32,
15,19,26,32,32,32,32,32,
19,26,32,32,32,32,32,32,
26,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,
32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32,
32,32,32,32,32,32,32,32

INTER8X8_LUMA =
9,12,14,16,18,21,23,26,
12,13,16,18,21,23,26,29,
14,16,18,21,23,26,29,29,
16,18,21,23,26,29,29,29,
18,21,23,26,29,29,29,29,
21,23,26,29,29,29,29,29,
23,26,29,29,29,29,29,29,
26,29,29,29,29,29,29,29

Xmen3 8X8 matrices look like this:

The 4X4 luma matrices look like smaller counterparts, The chroma matrices are the same as their 4x4 luma counterparts.

[shon3i]

Indeed interesting

[Sagittaire]

and here for casino royale (really grainy movie)

Pic Scaling List[0] Present Flag: 1
delta: -2
scaling list[0][0]: 6
delta: 1
scaling list[0][1]: 7
delta: 0
scaling list[0][2]: 7
delta: 3
scaling list[0][3]: 10
delta: -3
scaling list[0][4]: 7
delta: 3
scaling list[0][5]: 10
delta: 6
scaling list[0][6]: 16
delta: -5
scaling list[0][7]: 11
delta: 0
scaling list[0][8]: 11
delta: 1
scaling list[0][9]: 12
delta: 1
scaling list[0][10]: 13
delta: -1
scaling list[0][11]: 12
delta: 5
scaling list[0][12]: 17
delta: 3
scaling list[0][13]: 20
delta: 0
scaling list[0][14]: 20
delta: -4
scaling list[0][15]: 16
Pic Scaling List[1] Present Flag: 0
Pic Scaling List[2] Present Flag: 0
Pic Scaling List[3] Present Flag: 1
delta: 2
scaling list[3][0]: 10
delta: 3
scaling list[3][1]: 13
delta: 0
scaling list[3][2]: 13
delta: 15
scaling list[3][3]: 28
delta: -14
scaling list[3][4]: 14
delta: 14
scaling list[3][5]: 28
delta: 13
scaling list[3][6]: 41
delta: -9
scaling list[3][7]: 32
delta: 0
scaling list[3][8]: 32
delta: 9
scaling list[3][9]: 41
delta: 5
scaling list[3][10]: 46
delta: -5
scaling list[3][11]: 41
delta: 43
scaling list[3][12]: 84
delta: 27
scaling list[3][13]: 111
delta: 0
scaling list[3][14]: 111
delta: -95
scaling list[3][15]: 16
Pic Scaling List[4] Present Flag: 0
Pic Scaling List[5] Present Flag: 0
Pic Scaling List[6] Present Flag: 1
delta: 1
scaling list[6][0]: 9
delta: 0
scaling list[6][1]: 9
delta: 0
scaling list[6][2]: 9
delta: 1
scaling list[6][3]: 10
delta: -1
scaling list[6][4]: 9
delta: 1
scaling list[6][5]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][6]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][7]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][8]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][9]: 10
delta: 1
scaling list[6][10]: 11
delta: -1
scaling list[6][11]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][12]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][13]: 10
delta: 1
scaling list[6][14]: 11
delta: 5
scaling list[6][15]: 16
delta: -5
scaling list[6][16]: 11
delta: -1
scaling list[6][17]: 10
delta: 0
scaling list[6][18]: 10
delta: 1
scaling list[6][19]: 11
delta: 1
scaling list[6][20]: 12
delta: 3
scaling list[6][21]: 15
delta: -3
scaling list[6][22]: 12
delta: -1
scaling list[6][23]: 11
delta: 0
scaling list[6][24]: 11
delta: 0
scaling list[6][25]: 11
delta: 5
scaling list[6][26]: 16
delta: 5
scaling list[6][27]: 21
delta: 8
scaling list[6][28]: 29
delta: -8
scaling list[6][29]: 21
delta: -5
scaling list[6][30]: 16
delta: -5
scaling list[6][31]: 11
delta: 0
scaling list[6][32]: 11
delta: 2
scaling list[6][33]: 13
delta: 2
scaling list[6][34]: 15
delta: 5
scaling list[6][35]: 20
delta: 0
scaling list[6][36]: 20
delta: -4
scaling list[6][37]: 16
delta: -3
scaling list[6][38]: 13
delta: -2
scaling list[6][39]: 11
delta: 6
scaling list[6][40]: 17
delta: 5
scaling list[6][41]: 22
delta: 7
scaling list[6][42]: 29
delta: 2
scaling list[6][43]: 31
delta: -8
scaling list[6][44]: 23
delta: -4
scaling list[6][45]: 19
delta: -5
scaling list[6][46]: 14
delta: 2
scaling list[6][47]: 16
delta: 5
scaling list[6][48]: 21
delta: 1
scaling list[6][49]: 22
delta: -1
scaling list[6][50]: 21
delta: -1
scaling list[6][51]: 20
delta: 5
scaling list[6][52]: 25
delta: 8
scaling list[6][53]: 33
delta: 3
scaling list[6][54]: 36
delta: -9
scaling list[6][55]: 27
delta: 0
scaling list[6][56]: 27
delta: 9
scaling list[6][57]: 36
delta: 4
scaling list[6][58]: 40
delta: -9
scaling list[6][59]: 31
delta: 9
scaling list[6][60]: 40
delta: 5
scaling list[6][61]: 45
delta: 0
scaling list[6][62]: 45
delta: -29
scaling list[6][63]: 16
Pic Scaling List[7] Present Flag: 1
delta: 4
scaling list[7][0]: 12
delta: 1
scaling list[7][1]: 13
delta: 0
scaling list[7][2]: 13
delta: 2
scaling list[7][3]: 15
delta: -2
scaling list[7][4]: 13
delta: 2
scaling list[7][5]: 15
delta: 3
scaling list[7][6]: 18
delta: -2
scaling list[7][7]: 16
delta: 0
scaling list[7][8]: 16
delta: 2
scaling list[7][9]: 18
delta: 2
scaling list[7][10]: 20
delta: -2
scaling list[7][11]: 18
delta: -1
scaling list[7][12]: 17
delta: 1
scaling list[7][13]: 18
delta: 2
scaling list[7][14]: 20
delta: 50
scaling list[7][15]: 70
delta: -50
scaling list[7][16]: 20
delta: -1
scaling list[7][17]: 19
delta: 0
scaling list[7][18]: 19
delta: 1
scaling list[7][19]: 20
delta: 13
scaling list[7][20]: 33
delta: 31
scaling list[7][21]: 64
delta: -30
scaling list[7][22]: 34
delta: -13
scaling list[7][23]: 21
delta: 0
scaling list[7][24]: 21
delta: 0
scaling list[7][25]: 21
delta: 51
scaling list[7][26]: 72
delta: 91
scaling list[7][27]: 163
delta: 92
scaling list[7][28]: 255
delta: -85
scaling list[7][29]: 170
delta: -89
scaling list[7][30]: 81
delta: -58
scaling list[7][31]: 23
delta: 0
scaling list[7][32]: 23
delta: 13
scaling list[7][33]: 36
delta: 30
scaling list[7][34]: 66
delta: 85
scaling list[7][35]: 151
delta: 4
scaling list[7][36]: 155
delta: -84
scaling list[7][37]: 71
delta: -32
scaling list[7][38]: 39
delta: -14
scaling list[7][39]: 25
delta: 71
scaling list[7][40]: 96
delta: 94
scaling list[7][41]: 190
delta: 65
scaling list[7][42]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][43]: 255
delta: -27
scaling list[7][44]: 228
delta: -108
scaling list[7][45]: 120
delta: -75
scaling list[7][46]: 45
delta: 35
scaling list[7][47]: 80
delta: 89
scaling list[7][48]: 169
delta: 23
scaling list[7][49]: 192
delta: -28
scaling list[7][50]: 164
delta: 124
scaling list[7][51]: 32
delta: -33
scaling list[7][52]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][53]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][54]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][55]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][56]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][57]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][58]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][59]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][60]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][61]: 255
delta: 0
scaling list[7][62]: 255
delta: 11
scaling list[7][63]: 10

[*.mp4 guy]

That matrix is the same as the one for Prestige, I didn't go through all the coeficients, but I recognized the inter 8X8 matrix, which has a very distinctive look to it, so they are definately the same.

[bond]

Casino Royale is from MGM. Using the same matrix as Disney/Buena Vista might tell that the two studios use the same encoder

[Sagittaire]

really strange matrix with the last high frequencies coef at low value ... ???

[*.mp4 guy]

It could be to preserve artificial dithering introduced by the encoder to preserve gradients, thats my best guess, atleast.

[bond]

or, its a bug

[akupenguin]

If only that one coefficient is small, then the only grain you can represent is a pattern that looks exactly like that one dct basis function. And basis function #63 is near zero at all the block edges, so regardless of whether it makes good grain, I don't think it can hide blocking artifacts.

[*.mp4 guy]

I thought It wasn't always near 0 around block edges? Guess I was wrong.

[Golgot13]

Hi all,

the new encoder (for this 3 movies) is BAE-VA 7000 from Sony. It can use network process encoding
(like PEP but much better for quality because H264....).
The price it is not nice (around 140.000USD.....). The BD were made by DADC US (may be europe).

Last best H264 encoder is come from Thomson, it use the FGT option (Film Grain Technology).
It design to do everything with best quality of encoding.

To my mind after NAB, I can say VC1 will die soon (all video hardware manufactories have H264 solution)....
I surprise to see all Sonic solution on web but not the other best solutions
( Ulead/MemoryTech, Sony BluPrint 4.0, Tiger AVC, PEP,....).
I see last version of Eclipse to test the compliance of HD DVD project but nothing (cracked on web)
about DataRius, from DCA, used by all replicator in Europe (all replicator in US use Eclipse...).

And I surprise sometime to listen strange song from all video actors:

- Some authoring studio do hacking to make BD from HD DVD source.
- Some video studio do BD on authoring company which made it for first time (lot of problems).
- Some replicator said they can do every format, but BD was not easy
(Sony Glass Mastering work and is work since more than one year;
BD replication work sure if it come from Japanese machine;....).

But the first BD without Sony process will come soon I hope it will work on all BD player
(it is a BD25 because there is only Sony which do BD50, replicator will do BD 50 next year....).

But there are good actor on market which believe at H264 since first time
to use on HD format.


I tolk about european company, I can say "Hi all" because there is lot of companies
(authoring studio, replicator, video studio, MS,...) which come to read this forum to find
"the best" informations (AACS cracking, best solution/way to encode,....).




Golgot13

[christopherw]

If the studios come here for advice and info, surely the admins could charge a consultation fee for advice dispensed which could go towards hosting?

[Neo Fagin]

I'll probably try the prestige/MGM matrix out on a reencode of Layer Cake I'm doing, that movie also has the same crazy grain as Casino Royale did. If people want I'd be happy to post screenshot comparisons of the source vs a ~10mbit reencode using that matrix.

[giandrea]

Originally Posted by Neo Fagin

I'll probably try the prestige/MGM matrix out on a reencode of Layer Cake I'm doing, that movie also has the same crazy grain as Casino Royale did. If people want I'd be happy to post screenshot comparisons of the source vs a ~10mbit reencode using that matrix.

It would be very interesting. But in a new topic.

[McCauley]

Hi,

i think it would be more interesting to compare a 10Mbps recode with your standard HQ/Hi bitrate matrix with a recode with the MGM matrix (of cause using the same AVS script). Comparing it with the source, without an indicator how good it is in comparison to a standard matrix seems a bit pointless to me. That comparison couldn't show the advantage over a standard matrix.

Regards
McCauley

[G_M_C]

Originally Posted by Neo Fagin

I'll probably try the prestige/MGM matrix out on a reencode of Layer Cake I'm doing, that movie also has the same crazy grain as Casino Royale did. If people want I'd be happy to post screenshot comparisons of the source vs a ~10mbit reencode using that matrix.

Ha, i see you found the thread

I'll be intersted to see if it makes a significant difference keeping the quality high, without negative effects on bitrate and/or quality of high-movement parts etc. Especialy because the BR seems to be "reference quality".

[Thunderbolt8]

Originally Posted by Neo Fagin

I'll probably try the prestige/MGM matrix out on a reencode of Layer Cake I'm doing, that movie also has the same crazy grain as Casino Royale did. If people want I'd be happy to post screenshot comparisons of the source vs a ~10mbit reencode using that matrix.

yes, screenshot comparism please, thanks

[delacroixp]

much



Pascal

[R3Z]

Just a quick test on a videoclip thats not really grainy, but it has lots of detail;

Original


EQM_AVC_HR


PRESTIGE


Original


EQM_AVC_HR


PRESTIGE


Original


EQM_AVC_HR


PRESTIGE


Settings used;

x264.exe --crf 19 --trellis 2 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 2 --b-pyramid --bime --weightb --direct none --filter -2,-1 --analyse all --8x8dct --threads 2 --thread-input --progress --no-dct-decimate --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "pres_hh.mp4" "hh.avs" --aq-strength 0.9 --aq-sensitivity 15 --cqmfile "either prestige or eqm_avc_hr :P "