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Old 11th December 2002, 11:15   #61  |  Link
ogo
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Ok.

Just to add something for the 16bits, mono, 11025hz problem. It must be somethin with directsound. If i tell directsound to play it at 11026 instead of 11025 it works fine ! I see this behaviour with all sound cards. Directsound must do something special at 11025, or i have the mad cow disease
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Old 11th December 2002, 11:33   #62  |  Link
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*.wav made with virtualdub, PCM 11025Hz 16bit mono, everything plays fine.
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Old 11th December 2002, 11:58   #63  |  Link
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Even with this one ?

(copy in a new window to bypass geocities protection)
http://www.geocities.com/reclockfilter/pcm_11k_mono.zip
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Old 11th December 2002, 12:31   #64  |  Link
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Well, this one makes a wiered noise only
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Old 11th December 2002, 13:47   #65  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
Whatever mode you choose, the reference clock of reclock will ALWAYS be synced with your video card. So if for example your video card runs at 100hz, the reference clock will exactly thinks 1 second has exactly elapsed each time your monitor advance 100 vertical syncs. So if you play a DIVX with reclock at a framerate that is a multiple of your video refresh rate, it will play in sync with your hardware.
Okay, I got that part...and if card runs at 99,8 Hz in reality (indicating 100 Hz), video runs at 24,95 fps, but the tv automatically syncs with 24,95 fps and it's fine? Or does such deviation in the refresh rate not exist? I still don't understand that part too well...I got it so far:

DivX plays in sync with my video hardware (in sync with my refresh rate), audio clock is corrected to match this. So fine so good. But does that guarantuee it is in sync with my tv? Is the refresh rate exact enough to produce a frame rate of the video that does not confuse my tv? I didn't get that from the readme...you say the video frame rate is always EXACTLY a multiple/fraction of my refresh rate. Makes sense to avoid jerkiness, sure, but you don't say anything about how precise the refresh rate is or should be and how that affects TV-Output...can you explain that a bit more, please? Thanx in advance!


Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
But you will still get dropped frames if there are time consuming tasks in the backgrond (kazaa, edonkey for example) when you play a divx, or if your divx has some problems.
Yeah, sure, that's what I was thinking, too...

Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
I don't see an interest in disabling the "corrected" reference clock. You can just uninstall reclock if you want to see the difference between reclock and the default audio renderer.
Well, I would have to do the framerate conversion with another filter then, making it a bit complicated...but I could as well do some tests with 25 fps material I understand, you don't wanna disable it, of course...
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Old 11th December 2002, 14:19   #66  |  Link
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Quote:
Okay, I got that part...and if card runs at 99,8 Hz in reality (indicating 100 Hz), video runs at 24,95 fps, but the tv automatically syncs with 24,95 fps and it's fine? Or does such deviation in the refresh rate not exist? I still don't understand that part too well...I got it so far:
Yes you got it. Your TV will always synchronize itself to its input signal (to a certain extent). It your PC delivers vertical syncs at 49,9 hz, your TV will display pictures at 49,9 hz. That's what happen with every equipment you connect to your TV. Even a DVD player connected to a TV doesnt play at exactly 50hz.
So now, if your PC is connected to a TV, and if your movie is played at a speed that is a exact multiple a the video card refresh rate (ie: also tv refresh rate), your movie will be fine on your TV. That's the whole purpose of reclock : good TV-OUT
I made all my tests with a Geforce3 and latest TVTool.
Without reclock, every 3-4 minutes, the video becomes jerky during 5-10 seconds (during a vsync "traversal"). With reclock i can play a whole movie without jerkyness (or too rare to be noticed), and i have a very picky tv-set that don't like non-smooth framerate (see me earlier post about natural motion processing).
What make me happy is that reclock also works with MPC, so i can also play my DVDs fine.
I also have a special video renderer to make my tests which can visually tell me how far the vsync point is from the current drawn frame ; it tells me if the clock is correctly tweaked ...
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Old 11th December 2002, 15:56   #67  |  Link
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Okay, then I understood it...I suppose it doesn't make any difference that I am using a Matrox card in DVDMax mode, which works slightly different. In case you don't know, it does not simply clone the desktop to a tv, it outputs any video overlay window that is created fullscreen to a connected TV-set (you don't have to fullscreen on monitor or can even minimize the player).

I could THINK of (not saying there definitely is one) a possible problem. The Matrox card MIGHT produce some kind of own clock/rate whatever for it's tv-output that does not directly depend on the monitor's refresh-rate (you can set the card in PAL or NTSC mode and in both cases select whatever refresh rate you want for the monitor) and then some deviation might occur...let's say, we have 99,8 Hz refresh rate on monitor -> 24,95 fps video, and the 'dvdmax clock' (if it exists) is 24,97 Well, this is just speculation, don't forget! Do you know anything about Matrox' DVDMax implementation? Can I help doing any tests maybe?

My point is: you're saying 'video card refresh rate (ie: also tv refresh rate)' -> this might not be true for matrox dvdmax or in other words, I simply don't know how the tv refresh rate depends on monitor refresh rate...at first glance I'd say it does not depend at all, because I can set my monitor to whatever refresh rate I want, the dvdmax output is still around 50 Hz (pal), otherwise my tv wouldn't sync at all, if I got it right. I am a bit confused

I simply don't know, I am just a bit worried

BTW: I don't know how tv-output on geforce cards works, they basically clone the monitor picture to the tv, is that correct (such a mode also exists on matrox but is not the preferred one for video playback)? And you can set the refresh rate of monitor picture to whatever rate you want and tv stays at 50 Hz (you can do that with matrox' clone mode)?

Sorry for all this confusion, I understood it so far by now:

With Reclock you get a video that is synced with your monitor refresh rate so it won't be jerky on monitor. BUT: There are different TV-Out implementations on different cards, how can we be sure, that being synced with monitor refresh rate and therefore not being jerky on monitor guarantuess perfect playback on tv?

Last edited by Chibi Jasmin; 11th December 2002 at 16:05.
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Old 11th December 2002, 16:23   #68  |  Link
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Quote:
My point is: you're saying 'video card refresh rate (ie: also tv refresh rate)' -> this might not be true for matrox dvdmax or in other words, I simply don't know how the tv refresh rate depends on monitor refresh rate...at first glance I'd say it does not depend at all, because I can set my monitor to whatever refresh rate I want, the dvdmax output is still around 50 Hz (pal), otherwise my tv wouldn't sync at all, if I got it right. I am a bit confused
You're right. If your video card produce another internal clock for tv wich is not related to the clock of your monitor, yes we have a real problem. I have a notebook with a Radeon M6 Mobility which just work the same way, but i didn't test reclock with tv-out on it yet. Some testing on it may give some clues ...
Just to know, when you output PAL to your TV, what information does you see in the "video hardware" tab of reclock ? If you don't see 50hz, then there is a problem for sure. However, there may be some solution if DirectDraw support your second screen (the tv out) as a second video adapter. I'll search more informations on this. What exact model of card do you have ?

Quote:
BTW: I don't know how tv-output on geforce cards works, they basically clone the monitor picture to the tv, is that correct (such a mode also exists on matrox but is not the preferred one for video playback)? And you can set the refresh rate of monitor picture to whatever rate you want and tv stays at 50 Hz (you can do that with matrox' clone mode)?
On GeForce2/3 the picture is shared between the monitor and the tv (ie: the monitor refresh rate is set at 50hz during if for example you choose PAL mode). So the clock is also shared, and i see "50hz" when i output PAL material to my TV. However some GeForce4 do work like your Matrox.
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Old 11th December 2002, 16:33   #69  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
You're right. If your video card produce another internal clock for tv wich is not related to the clock of your monitor, yes we have a real problem. I have a notebook with a Radeon M6 Mobility which just work the same way, but i didn't test reclock with tv-out on it yet. Some testing on it may give some clues ...
Just to know, when you output PAL to your TV, what information does you see in the "video hardware" tab of reclock ? If you don't see 50hz, then there is a problem for sure. However, there may be some solution if DirectDraw support your second screen (the tv out) as a second video adapter. I'll search more informations on this. What exact model of card do you have ?
Video Hardware tab: Refresh rate 100 Hz (the one my monitor is set to), clock: varies between about 86500 and 87500 hz (seems to depend on video dimensions, unsure...). exact model of card Matrox G400 Dual Head AGP 32 MB (the AGP 4x capable version)

In DVDMax mode, the tv out is not a second screen, you can do this setting the card in multidisplay mode, but that's not what we wanna do for video playback on tv. You can even connect two monitors and configure them with two different resolutions and refresh rates in this mode, so chances are great, tv-clock in dvdmax mode is also independently generated...

That's why I have been asking for support of disabling clock correction. I didn't have too much problems with jerkiness on tv, but reclock is the only working solution for me to do framerate conversion on dvd playback and I am not sure, if the clock correction part does any good or even bad, but the frame rate correction thing is so cool...maybe you think it over, giving an option to disable clock correction?

I don't even care for jerkiness on monitor...in fact, I didn't even have jerkiness (or very little, don't know) with monitor at 85 Hz for a long time. Maybe Matrox' TV-Out doesn't need any adjustment?

Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
On GeForce2/3 the picture is shared between the monitor and the tv (ie: the monitor refresh rate is set at 50hz during if for example you choose PAL mode). So the clock is also shared, and i see "50hz" when i output PAL material to my TV. However some GeForce4 do work like your Matrox.
So what to do with these cards? Some research needed, I suppose...

Last edited by Chibi Jasmin; 11th December 2002 at 16:39.
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Old 11th December 2002, 16:45   #70  |  Link
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Quote:
Video Hardware tab: Refresh rate 100 Hz (the one my monitor is set to), clock: varies between about 86500 and 87500 hz (seems to depend on video dimensions, unsure...). exact model of card Matrox G400 Dual Head AGP 32 MB (the AGP 4x capable version)
clock depends on screen size and refresh rate. It should never change if don't don't change resolution or refresh rate. In the current version of reclock, the clock estimation is not always well made (it's now corrected but not posted yet). If it's the case, clock is badly corrected, and it can make playback worse ... Just to check if you have the bug, can you do the following :
Look in the registry here : HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/ReClock/Config
You will see some keys with the form "a"x"b"x"c"x"d".
If you see more that 1 key that begin with the same "a" and "b" and "c" but have a different "d" then you have the bug.
Ex:
1024x768x75x1040 )
1024x768x75x1050 ) -> IS WRONG

I'll post the next version tonight with this fix, and another one for the sound.

For the clock disabling problem i don't think it is so important because when the default audio renderer is used, the reference clock is based on the sound card speed. Using this reference clock instead of the reclock one would not give you something more accurate. And disabling the clock is really hard to do for me ...

Last edited by ogo; 11th December 2002 at 16:53.
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Old 11th December 2002, 17:04   #71  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
clock depends on screen size and refresh rate. It should never change if don't don't change resolution or refresh rate.
But it does...when opening a video, clock is different with different videos...

Quote:
Originally posted by ogo

In the current version of reclock, the clock estimation is not always well made (it's now corrected but not posted yet). If it's the case, clock is badly corrected, and it can make playback worse ... Just to check if you have the bug, can you do the following :
Look in the registry here : HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/ReClock/Config
You will see some keys with the form "a"x"b"x"c"x"d".
If you see more that 1 key that begin with the same "a" and "b" and "c" but have a different "d" then you have the bug.
Ex:
1024x768x75x1040 )
1024x768x75x1050 ) -> IS WRONG

I'll post the next version tonight with this fix, and another one for the sound.
Seems I got the bug:

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config]
@=""

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x769]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="78023.400000"
"WaitFactor"="1.300390"
"Freq"="1191065.738860"
"Ti"="-1364.310232"
"Duration"=dword:000000f0
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x770]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="77922.060000"
"WaitFactor"="1.298701"
"Freq"="1191064.998550"
"Ti"="-1366.473598"
"Duration"=dword:0000004d
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x771]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1297.016861"
"WaitFactor"="1.297017"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003c
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x773]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="77619.660000"
"WaitFactor"="1.293661"
"Freq"="1191065.975042"
"Ti"="-1370.357832"
"Duration"=dword:000000f0
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x778]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="26207.000859"
"WaitFactor"="1.285347"
"Freq"="1191066.758166"
"Ti"="-1379.022244"
"Duration"=dword:00000502
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x784]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="0.000000"
"WaitFactor"="1.000000"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1024x768x100x792]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1262.626263"
"WaitFactor"="1.262626"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003c
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x864]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1227.893086"
"WaitFactor"="1.157407"
"Freq"="1192262.154714"
"Ti"="-343.783374"
"Duration"=dword:0000003c
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x865]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="17539.150929"
"WaitFactor"="1.156069"
"Freq"="1191016.728224"
"Ti"="-1570.747249"
"Duration"=dword:0000003c
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x866]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="68236.873077"
"WaitFactor"="1.154734"
"Freq"="1191017.645117"
"Ti"="-1571.513361"
"Duration"=dword:00000043
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x868]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1152.073733"
"WaitFactor"="1.152074"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003d
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x869]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1150.747986"
"WaitFactor"="1.150748"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003d
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x875]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1142.857143"
"WaitFactor"="1.142857"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:00000041
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
"HardwareResample"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x887]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1127.395716"
"WaitFactor"="1.127396"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003c
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x898]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="3526.756105"
"WaitFactor"="1.113586"
"Freq"="1190912.814438"
"Ti"="-1669.858488"
"Duration"=dword:00000093
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x904]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="1106.194690"
"WaitFactor"="1.106195"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"
"Duration"=dword:0000003f
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\1152x864x100x906]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="0.000000"
"WaitFactor"="1.000000"
"Freq"="1193182.000000"
"Ti"="0.000000"

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ReClock\Config\800x600x85x602]
"Version"=dword:00000001
"Wait"="2403.505698"
"WaitFactor"="1.954270"
"Freq"="1192699.698376"
"Ti"="-189.003825"
"Duration"=dword:00000059
"DRCActive"=dword:00000000
[/B][/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally posted by ogo

For the clock disabling problem i don't think it is so important because when the default audio renderer is used, the reference clock is based on the sound card speed. Using this reference clock instead of the reclock one would not give you something more accurate. And disabling the clock is really hard to do for me ...
Well, the frame rate conversion part is what I wanted to keep, because it's the only fully working frame rate conversion I got. But I wanted to see what happens, if the clock correction is not made (using the same reference clock as the default renderer = sound card speed), because we're not sure, if the correction is even going into the right direction (if there's two independent clocks for monitor and tv as described above). Anyway, if it's hard to do...let's better find out, if there's a problem with independent clocks for monitor and tv or not...

On this site: http://grafi.ii.pw.edu.pl/gbm/matrox/ there's some technical information about the matrox g400 parts, maybe you could have a look at this (especially the point called 'InDepth' explains some hardware stuff)... some quick links:

http://grafi.ii.pw.edu.pl/gbm/matrox/g4intro.html
http://grafi.ii.pw.edu.pl/gbm/matrox/mgaclock.html

Maybe this is not all you need, but it might give some insight into the g400 architecture.

Last edited by Chibi Jasmin; 11th December 2002 at 17:35.
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Old 11th December 2002, 17:39   #72  |  Link
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Wow yes you have the problem. That also explain why your "hardware resampling" setting is not always sticky, because each registry group store its own settings.
Hope next version will fix that properly. Before installing it, please delete all entries under the "config" folder.
I'll check your links for Matrox.
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Old 11th December 2002, 17:41   #73  |  Link
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Hope you'll find something interesting there...it's basically about overclocking the card and stuff, but maybe you find some hint, if there might be an independent tv-clock or not...
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Old 11th December 2002, 19:50   #74  |  Link
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The link for 0.96c is screwed.
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Old 11th December 2002, 19:53   #75  |  Link
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You're too fast for me

Just wanted to say that 0.96c is available

The link is ok now ...
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Old 11th December 2002, 19:55   #76  |  Link
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Bad news, V0.96c freezes on file open (automatic graph building), player is frozen with 99% cpu usage!

Did you find something interesting about the Matrox cards?

Last edited by Chibi Jasmin; 11th December 2002 at 20:00.
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Old 11th December 2002, 20:18   #77  |  Link
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It means it is not able to find your video clock frequency (this takes 100% cpu during .5 second normally but will take forever if it can't find the result).

What is the speed of your processor ? Could your try at lower resolution and with lower refresh rate ? Thanks
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Old 11th December 2002, 20:34   #78  |  Link
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Can you test with this version (i relaxed some parameters) :

(copy this link in a new IE window)
http://www.geocities.com/reclockfilter/setup.zip

This version will produce a log in c:\reclock_log.txt. Can you give me the results by email (for more than 1 run if possible) ?

Thanks
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Old 11th December 2002, 20:36   #79  |  Link
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For what it worth, the new version works OK here. The bug with menus in DVDs remains, but you didn't say that you fixed it anyway Ofcourse I'm not using a Matrox card but a GeForce 4 TI 4200 and an AMD Duron 1.2GHz. Keep 'em coming Ogo!

I should also say that my refresh is 75Hz at 1024x768.
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Last edited by cca; 11th December 2002 at 20:44.
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Old 11th December 2002, 20:42   #80  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by ogo
It means it is not able to find your video clock frequency (this takes 100% cpu during .5 second normally but will take forever if it can't find the result).

What is the speed of your processor ? Could your try at lower resolution and with lower refresh rate ? Thanks
Processor speed is 1365 MHz.

Will try with lower resolution/refresh rate...results in a minute...

UPDATE:
Still crashes with 1024x768 16bit and 32 bit.

800x600 at 16 bit works!


Last edited by Chibi Jasmin; 11th December 2002 at 21:14.
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