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Old 14th February 2012, 18:16   #12141  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukey View Post
Yeah but he is using the native resolution. Even a nearest resize would produce the correct upsampling.
No, it would not.
When you reduce the resolution to one quarter of the original, information is lost (4:2:0 is one quarter chroma resolution).
You need a proper reconstruction of that data, and nearest neighbor resize will just produce 4 pixels of the same color, which is not how the original looked like (probably not even close)
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Old 14th February 2012, 18:36   #12142  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
Problem in 'store window size' build only, other two are fine.
Ok. Can you please check this build to confirm that the problem is gone for you:

http://madshi.net/madVRmaybeFixed.rar

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
So I realise this may not have been the intention of these test builds, but I just reset all my madVR settings to the defaults, let a two minute clip run and made a note of the dropped frames & presentation glitches.

In these cases, the dropped frames seemed to only appear at the start of the clip, and it never dropped any past the first couple of seconds. The numbers are averaged from running the tests twice.

Code:
1 - tools, settings, dither, aero:	22 / 69
2 - osd, uploading, vsync, rendering:	22 / 65
3 - direct3d:				 7 / 78
4 - framequeue:				 7 / 57
79InitPresParams:			22 / 65
moved aero switch:			 7 / 68
double code:				22 / 63
order changed:				22 / 61
store window size:			 7 / 69
Does that tell you anything useful?
It seems you either get 7 or 22 frame drops in all the tests. I'm wondering whether it's random which results you get, or whether it's really caused by the differences in the test builds. FWIW, e.g. the "79InitPresParams" and "store window size" madVR builds are almost identical. The differences between all the other builds are much bigger. So I tend to think that the results are more random than useful. Razoola's test results seem to be reliable because he saw the composition rate in some of those builds in the madVR OSD, while he didn't see it in other builds. Furthermore all of this results were conclusive. If his test results had been random, I would have run into some sort of contradiction sooner or later.
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Old 14th February 2012, 18:54   #12143  |  Link
Razoola
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok. Can you please check this build to confirm that the problem is gone for you:

http://madshi.net/madVRmaybeFixed.rar
Yes my issue is fixed in this build. Many thanks for spending the time looking into this.
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Old 14th February 2012, 18:57   #12144  |  Link
madshi
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Good to hear. To be honest, I don't really understand why the "fix" I implemented now changes anything. It's basically the same as v0.80, just some code sections re-ordered. Makes no sense to me. But well, as long as it works...
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:02   #12145  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good to hear. To be honest, I don't really understand why the "fix" I implemented now changes anything. It's basically the same as v0.80, just some code sections re-ordered. Makes no sense to me. But well, as long as it works...
Maybe it had something to do with the fact I have multi gpus in my system, but like you say now that its working
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:15   #12146  |  Link
Damien147
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
So does the AMD control panel settings such as AA, AF and AI affects how MadVR renders? Have you tested this?
I haven't cause in general I prefer default 3d settings in ccc and tweaking in game but I've read previous posts mentioning that AA,AF affects PQ(not about A.I.).
About A.I. from a quick test I just did I can't see a difference.So madshi is probably right.
In the past I thought it caused slight shimmering but it was placebo probably.
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:22   #12147  |  Link
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Originally Posted by shimaflarex View Post
I believe I have found a bug.
Switching to the "old path" exclusive mode(as in, not only disabling present several frames in advance, but actually setting the media player to full screen mode) limits the number of backbuffers to 3, in both windowed and exclusive mode.
Turns out there isn't anything I can do about this. Vista introduced a new "Direct3D9Ex" interface, which I have to use to get more than 3 backbuffers. However, the "old path" exclusive mode does not work with "Direct3D9Ex", it only works with the older "Direct3D9", and that does not support more than 3 backbuffers. So there isn't really anything I can do. If you want to use the old exclusive mode path, you're automatically stuck with 3 backbuffers in both windowed and exclusive mode.
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:42   #12148  |  Link
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Cosmetic bug:
If the ffmpeg decoders aren't present, madVR options will still default to enabling the H.264 and MPEG2 decoder. It should ideally uncheck and grey out those options.
Done.

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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Suggestion:
If the ffmpeg decoders aren't present during filter registration, then don't include the H264/MPEG2/VC-1 mediatypes.
Tried, but failed. The MSVC++ base classes have some linker magic which require the mediatypes to have a specific name. So basically I can only use one exact list of mediatypes. At least I don't see how I could do this differently in any easy way. And I don't think this is important enough to warrant hours of searching.
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:48   #12149  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It seems you either get 7 or 22 frame drops in all the tests. I'm wondering whether it's random which results you get, or whether it's really caused by the differences in the test builds. FWIW, e.g. the "79InitPresParams" and "store window size" madVR builds are almost identical. The differences between all the other builds are much bigger. So I tend to think that the results are more random than useful.
The dropped frame numbers I get were consistent and repeatable, presentation glitches varied somewhat, maybe +/-5 over the whole set of testing I did. (that's why I tried each at least twice, and averaged) Going back to those two builds now, I still get the same difference in dropped frames.

The new build posted averages 22/53. As I said, the dropped frames only seem to be initial numbers within the first few seconds of playback, but it seemed strange, so I thought I should mention it. (presentation glitches keep increasing with the default flush settings)

Whatever that small difference is, must be doing something.



Using the "framequeue" build which showed the least number of dropped frames & presentation glitches, and changing the flushing to don't/don't/don't/sleep, I was able to watch a 40 minute 30p@60Hz video without any framedrops/presentation glitches past the first minute, where it climbed to 7/43 and then stayed there to the end.

I need to do extended testing with this using some longer videos (sometimes problems only show up after an hour or so) and with the "maybe fixed" build, but it may be a solution for people that need to run the latest Nvidia drivers. (0.80 seemed fine with these flush settings until I tried longer videos though)

Last edited by 6233638; 14th February 2012 at 20:00.
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:55   #12150  |  Link
madshi
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What happens if you enable the option "delay playback until render queue is full"? Shouldn't that take care of those framedrops at the start of playback?
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Old 14th February 2012, 19:56   #12151  |  Link
Razoola
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
The dropped frame numbers I get were consistent and repeatable, presentation glitches varied somewhat, maybe +/-5 over the whole set of testing I did. (that's why I tried each at least twice, and averaged) Going back to those two builds now, I still get the same difference in dropped frames.

The new build posted averages 22/53. As I said, the dropped frames only seem to be initial numbers within the first few seconds of playback, but it seemed strange, so I thought I should mention it. (presentation glitches keep increasing with the default flush settings)

Whatever that small difference is, must be doing something.

Using the "framequeue" build which showed the least number of dropped frames & presentation glitches, and changing the flushing to don't/don't/don't/sleep, I was able to watch a 40 minute 30p@60Hz video without any framedrops/presentation glitches past the first minute, where it climbed to 7/43 and then stayed there to the end.

I need to do extended testing with this using some longer videos (sometimes problems only show up after an hour or so) and with the "maybe fixed" build, but it may be a solution for people that need to run the latest Nvidia drivers. (0.80 seemed fine with these flush settings until I tried longer videos though)
The only way I found to stop presentation glitches (not dropped frames) on my machine is to use flush setting of don't/don't/sleep/don't. Do those settings work for you?
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Old 14th February 2012, 20:02   #12152  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What happens if you enable the option "delay playback until render queue is full"? Shouldn't that take care of those framedrops at the start of playback?
Sorry, I added this to my post as you replied:


EDIT: Enabling the "delay playback start until render queue is full" option eliminates these dropped frames at the start as you would expect—the reason I mentioned them is that clearly something was happening to increase them 3x.

More importantly though, this option no longer seems to break DVD playback (off the disc) though presentation glitches still increase for the first minute or so of playback before stopping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
The only way I found to stop presentation glitches (not dropped frames) on my machine is to use flush setting of don't/don't/sleep/don't. Do those settings work for you?
This drops my render & present queues from being essentially full, down to 1–3/16, and 0–1/4.

From that brief test, it did stay at 0 dropped frames and 0 presentation glitches, but I'm wary of leaving the queues so low. I suspect that there will be dropped frames/glitches appearing when watching a long video in that state.

I believe you are using a different generation of card though, which is probably why that is the case. (I never had any problems with the new rendering path with my old 9400M based system)

Last edited by 6233638; 14th February 2012 at 20:04.
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Old 14th February 2012, 20:07   #12153  |  Link
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Hi madshi,
In one earlier post you promised to post details how to drag a freeze report, because I did report you a MPC-HC freeze using madVR refresh rate changer ( happens not always ) - going from native 60Hz to 23Hz ( 1080p23 setting ) on my VT30 plasma. It happens in both windowed and exclusive mode. I would like to prepare such log for you. Or have you tried to reproduce this in between?
Thanks
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Old 14th February 2012, 20:12   #12154  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post
Hi madshi,
In one earlier post you promised to post details how to drag a freeze report, because I did report you a MPC-HC freeze using madVR refresh rate changer ( happens not always ) - going from native 60Hz to 23Hz ( 1080p23 setting ) on my VT30 plasma. It happens in both windowed and exclusive mode. I would like to prepare such log for you. Or have you tried to reproduce this in between?
The freeze doesn't happen for me. You will be able to create a freeze report with the next madVR build. The current build does not support that yet. I will explain how to create freeze reports in the release notes of the next madVR build.
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Old 14th February 2012, 20:33   #12155  |  Link
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Originally Posted by kerman View Post
Thanks for help guys. Im afraid Ill have to get any affordable device to calibrate my tv for color accuracy. Not cheap though..

BTW, do youy guys have "gamma processing" enabled on madVR. It comes unchecked by default, but wondering if it may improve the final image quality. Im just looking for the picture the most accurate to the source.
I use gamma prosessing...
I have best PQ (my opinion, not scientific) when I set "tv is already calibrated" (set there your specs) and then check gamma prosessing and set there what seems to be the best settings... I have these BT.709 and BT.709/601 curve 2.10. Gamma prosessing is pure power curve 2.10... Black level seems fine and I have much better contrast, so I think it is correct settings...
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Old 14th February 2012, 21:15   #12156  |  Link
Plutotype
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I use gamma prosessing...
I have best PQ (my opinion, not scientific) when I set "tv is already calibrated" (set there your specs) and then check gamma prosessing and set there what seems to be the best settings... I have these BT.709 and BT.709/601 curve 2.10. Gamma prosessing is pure power curve 2.10... Black level seems fine and I have much better contrast, so I think it is correct settings...
Im using gamma processing as well, to be exact 2.0, because there is no major change in "blackness" in the film material and it makes my Panny VT30 look more bright ( 2012 models should be brighter ). But if I would have a LED LCD or brighter plasma, it would be different situation. Light conditions also play a significant role in this regard. Calibration = dimm/dark room, but this is not always the case. MadVR does indeed a very good job with its built gamma processing.
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Last edited by Plutotype; 14th February 2012 at 21:19.
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Old 14th February 2012, 21:29   #12157  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think some people have this problem sometimes, but not all. You could try disabling aero / desktop composition to see if that makes a difference. You could also try modifying the way your monitors are set up. E.g. move the secondary monitor to the left side of the primary monitor instead of the right side, or something like that. Maybe some fiddling around like that helps?
Disabling aero fixed the problem.
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Old 14th February 2012, 22:41   #12158  |  Link
6233638
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Film gamma is 2.40.

Depending on your TV, it's probably not even 2.20 to begin with (or 2.2 if it's got a good film preset/THX mode) so you are further reducing the image contrast by using madVR to lower the gamma.
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Old 14th February 2012, 23:52   #12159  |  Link
Plutotype
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Film gamma is 2.40.

Depending on your TV, it's probably not even 2.20 to begin with (or 2.2 if it's got a good film preset/THX mode) so you are further reducing the image contrast by using madVR to lower the gamma.
I know that. Will try to be fair against the filmmakers as soon I will get my hands on a new TV set, which should be brighter and I wont need any further gamma or brightness adjustments if properly calibrated ( looking at Panna WT50 or VT50 currently ).
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Old 15th February 2012, 10:58   #12160  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Peekstra View Post
When using madVR to display a movie on a secondary monitor using the Windows desktop on the primary screen becomes (almost) impossible. For example: some windows appear semi transparent and can't be clicked on with the mouse. This makes the computer unusable for other things when someone else is watching a movie.

Will a future version of madVR resolve this or is this a limitation of the hardware, OS or drivers (Win7X64, AMD 6950, ZP811)?
I have the exact same problem. I noticed that it only happens when madvr is in exclusive mode. If I bring it out of it either by showing the popup menu of the player or other part of the GUI all windows on the primary monitor redraw and work correctly. I'm using Aero and I have my secondary monitor positioned in the bottom right corner of the primary.
I'll try to move it arround and report back.
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