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Old 24th January 2012, 23:44   #11901  |  Link
CruNcher
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Pagefile writes most probably, though saying that MadVR causes them is a little to fast without analyzing in depth whats going on, you should look where exactly what writes to and then analyze why
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Old 25th January 2012, 00:06   #11902  |  Link
Andy o
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
The Windows Visa/7 audio engine does not introduce distortion. In fact it should be bit-exact if the input sample rate matches the configured sample rate.
I think this is true of XP. The audio engine in Vista/7 processes all audio in 32 float, doesn't it? A long time ago I remember I tested this with DTS-WAV, but couldn't do it bit-perfectly through the Vista/7 mixer (don't remember which was but should be the same). In any case, WASAPI exclusive is easier and more practical.
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Old 25th January 2012, 00:21   #11903  |  Link
e-t172
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The audio engine in Vista/7 processes all audio in 32 float, doesn't it? A long time ago I remember I tested this with DTS-WAV, but couldn't do it bit-perfectly through the Vista/7 mixer (don't remember which was but should be the same).
Well, yeah. The Vista/7 mixer indeed processes audio in 32-bit float, what makes it not bit-perfect is that it dithers before converting back to integer (as it should). I stand corrected. This will corrupt DTS-WAV bitstreams (which are not supposed to use PCM audio APIs, by the way) but for normal audio waveforms, its effect is negligible (+3dB of noise floor).
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Old 25th January 2012, 02:02   #11904  |  Link
Mangix
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using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
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Old 25th January 2012, 08:24   #11905  |  Link
e-t172
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using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
That's why I output 32-bit float from the audio decoder and renderer. This way I'm just moving the dithering operation from the decoder/renderer to the Windows audio engine, without any loss in quality.
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Old 25th January 2012, 09:06   #11906  |  Link
G_M_C
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Could we please move the audio-discussion auto of the madVR section ? madVR is a video renderer after all, so this isn't the right place for a audio discussion.
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Old 25th January 2012, 12:26   #11907  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by Paladin77 View Post
Why not Use WASAPI Exclusive? (you can set that up in Reclock)
Why not discussing audio matters elsewhere? It's the mVR thread, thank you.
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Old 25th January 2012, 18:27   #11908  |  Link
kalston
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Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
You forgot that XP has Kernel Streaming and ASIO (although Reclock doesn't support the latter) and even Directsound can easily be bitperfect in XP.
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Old 25th January 2012, 18:59   #11909  |  Link
Mangix
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i agree with leeperry so this is my last post on this:

directsound's kmixer has been known to cause issues when mixing audio streams with differing sample rates(hence why kernel streaming was invented, although i will say bitperfect playback with kernel streaming is quite dependent on proper drivers. i've seen realtek audio drivers mangle the audio and some drivers(Aureal and Realtek) still do mixing with kernel streaming). asio is the gold standard(low latency and bitperfect) but hardly supported(asio4all doesn't count). that's why i say WASAPI exclusive is the best solution for most people who want to get bitperfect playback.
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Old 26th January 2012, 10:35   #11910  |  Link
bjd
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Had to roll back my WDM Realtek HD driver to 2.56 becuase of crackling on newer drivers.

Best advice when kernel streaming with Realtek drivers in XP is to mute all the mixer inputs including line and ensure the DSP effects are switched off too. That way it should bitstream DTS wav files - it did for me.
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Last edited by bjd; 26th January 2012 at 10:35. Reason: typo
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Old 26th January 2012, 15:26   #11911  |  Link
adam777
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Hi all,
Due to a very unfortunate series of events (only some of which my fault... ), I had to reinstall my Windows 7 machine.
I got everything installed and configured only to realize madVR works much worse than before.

The symptoms (all under both Zoom Player and MPC-HC):
- Initial playback takes long to begin, resulting in a massive (200+) amount of dropped frames.
- Opening context menu while in fullscreen exclusive mode (i.e. switching to fullscreen windowed mode) takes long as well (a few seconds), again resulting in massive amount of dropped frames.
- Going out of fullscreen while in FSE (going to windowed mode) demonstrates same behavior.
- Exiting the player takes long as well.
- As far as I can tell, once playback gets going, all is well (haven't tested it thoroughly, though).

I tried madVR with both default settings and my minor modifications (default scaling algorithms, some options changed here and there).
Although madVR 0.80 worked perfectly prior to the unfortunate reinstallation, I did try some older versions (0.79-0.76) to no avail.
I can think of nothing major that changed in my setup, same filters are in use (LAV Splitter->LAV Video->madVR on the video side of things) and I suppose same general setup as well (Windows 7 x64 SO1, fully patched, latest directx etc.).
Also worth noting, I'm doing all testing on a file I know worked well before (Windows 7 sample video - "wildlife").

I realize this maybe a bit general, but If someone can offer an insight on specific things I should look at, it'll be a great help.

Thanks, Adam.

* EDIT *
A-Ha!
I just realized that while busy downloading the latest versions of my software I actually installed a newer Catalyst version (12.1, just released).
I removed it, rebooted and all is smooth again
I'm not convinced I used the previous version (12.11), so I'll try to pinpoint the exact problematic version.

Last edited by adam777; 26th January 2012 at 16:25.
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Old 26th January 2012, 17:05   #11912  |  Link
Qaq
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Adam, I guess you need to increase the merits for LAV. Here on d9 forum should be a tool for that. Check forums carefully.
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Old 26th January 2012, 17:43   #11913  |  Link
adam777
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OK, conclusions.
I removed installed Catalyst (express uninstall which should remove everything), rebooted and installed 11.10 - Everything seems to be OK.
Removed 11.10, rebooted and installed 11.11 - still OK.
Removed 11.11, rebooted and installed 11.12 - OK, yet again.
At this point I was sure 12.1 was the problem, as it seems there are some differences with this release comparing to previous ones:
- Mobility installer offers more stuff (for example, HDMI audio driver. In previous versions, I had to run the desktop version to be offered the driver).
- Much larger package size (~150MB vs. ~100MB).
- Different unpacking location (though it is irrelevant of course).
- Some changes to the CCC.
Overall, it just seems a bit different.

So, installed 12.1 again, and what do you know - now it works...
I believe that at some point during last night's reinstallation marathon I installed 11.12, and then installed 12.1 (which was just released at the time, I probably download it within minutes of release) without uninstalling 11.12, which could be the reason for the weird behavior.

Bottom line, everything seems to be in order.
Thanks for listening
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Old 27th January 2012, 04:53   #11914  |  Link
FreeFall
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madshi,

I have a strange problem with madVR in Zoom Player when using xy-vsfilter. If a video uses pgs subtitles after playback is started it then stops, video plays fine after starting playback a second time. I don't have the problem with playback when using the EVR renderer.

Win7 64 bit, Zoom Player 8.1, madVR 0.80, xy-vsfilter 3.0.0.1, LAV Filters 0.44, tested with a Blu-ray disc and an Mkv encode with pgs subtitles.


FreeFall.
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:39   #11915  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Does the problem go away if you disable the 'Delay playback until render queue is full' option in madVR?
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:44   #11916  |  Link
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madshi,

I have a strange problem with madVR in Zoom Player when using xy-vsfilter. If a video uses pgs subtitles after playback is started it then stops, video plays fine after starting playback a second time. I don't have the problem with playback when using the EVR renderer.

Win7 64 bit, Zoom Player 8.1, madVR 0.80, xy-vsfilter 3.0.0.1, LAV Filters 0.44, tested with a Blu-ray disc and an Mkv encode with pgs subtitles.


FreeFall.
It may or may not help at all, but in the ffmpeg 0.10 release (released today) one of the main changes was "Improved PGS subtitle decoder".

When ffmpeg is updated in whatever you're using behavior might improve.
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Old 27th January 2012, 08:14   #11917  |  Link
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xy-vsfilter does not use ffmpeg for subtitle decoding.
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Old 27th January 2012, 08:21   #11918  |  Link
golagoda
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xy-vsfilter does not use ffmpeg for subtitle decoding.
I've never even heard of xy-vsfilter so I have no idea really, was just putting that out there in-case it helped
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Old 27th January 2012, 08:37   #11919  |  Link
FreeFall
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cyberbeing,

Thanks, turning off "delay playback start until render queue is full" fixed the problem, I use the option to reduce presentation glitches.

golagoda,

Thanks, xy-vsfilter uses the same pgs sub renderer that mpc-hc does with the same bugs (has timing problems, some subs show up later then they are supposed to or disappear to early). Maybe one day we will see a ffmpeg based dshow subtitle renderer or another alternative.
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Old 28th January 2012, 02:43   #11920  |  Link
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When I try to play MKVs (standard definition dvds) in MPC-HC using Madvr, I get the message "Madvr Reports: deinterlacing failed" when I press control J.

The error just repeats over and over in red text and there is no other information on the screen.

The MKV plays, but I want to know how to correct the error.
Anybody?
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