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Old 13th July 2019, 20:38   #56821  |  Link
Megalith
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The dithering is only an issue if you are using an ICC Profile, correct?
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Old 13th July 2019, 21:08   #56822  |  Link
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Correct
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Old 14th July 2019, 16:56   #56823  |  Link
hannes69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
some conclusive evidence on the cause of various latency issues
Do you refer to the ntoskrnl latency spikes in 1903 or something else?
I have these spikes higher than everything Iīve seen in the net, once up to 60 ms (yes, ms not ĩs) and since 1903 I have often repeated frames (letīs say 5-10 during one movie) when I had zero all the time in 1809. Sometimes no drops or repeats, sometimes repeats and the audio clock goes wacky, sometimes a repeat followed by a drop in a short time and so both numbers rising slowly, sometimes 50 drops and/or repeats at once, sometimes presentation glitches. Absolutely none of these symptoms in 1809.
I never had problems with Windows updates, so I simply applied them. So this time. And of course the Windows.old folder doesnīt exist anymore...
Of course I donīt know if my problems really have to do with the latency problems.
Maybe it has to do with Windows clocks. Since 1809 the default clock is a 10 MHz clock. I used HPET before and it worked, now it is almost a guarantee for my described problems, so to speak the propability for appearing is much more higher than using the default clock.
Sometimes the audio clock ('clock deviation' in madVR OSD) jumps to a different value during playback and stays there, sometimes this repeats multiple times during playback. Normally I have a value in the region of -0.00220%. Then a repeat is shown and the clock jumps to a different value, letīs say -0.00310%. And this is not only shown, it is really the case: The drop/repeat time is adapted and to the predicted time a repeat occurs (shown in OSD and really the case).
The video clock doesnīt seem to be affected, this is always stable.
All of these problems can not be solved by any madVR settings (rendering settings). I have custom resolutions which are 'perfect'. The problems also show up with smooth motion.
Different GPU drivers donīt change anything. It is not dependant on GPU load. I have two audio devices (PCI card and onboard sound), no change. I tried many things, nothing worked. The culprit really seems to be the 1903 Windows update in my case.
Itīs a wonder to me that nobody else reported problems in this thread here. Maybe I am in the minority of people that made this mistake to upgrade to 1903?
So Iīd like to warn from updating to 1903! The first time I had problems with such an update and I regret this step the first time.
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Old 14th July 2019, 18:23   #56824  |  Link
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I thought Windows 8.1 was the preferred HTPC OS for madVR. What do you need Windows 10 for?
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Old 14th July 2019, 20:06   #56825  |  Link
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Can't we get past that question already?
Some reasons:
- some people don't have a dedicated HTPC but still want to use madVR, and Windows 8 means being stuck in the past when it comes to general purpose computing (also the UI is awful but that's just an opinion)
- newer hardware isn't always supported on/optimized for Windows 8
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Old 14th July 2019, 23:51   #56826  |  Link
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Is there any kind of development for madVR going on at the moment?
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Old 15th July 2019, 00:09   #56827  |  Link
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madshi is currently working on the Envy. For the very moment work seems to have stopped on the HDR builds but he did say he'll get back to them soonish. I suspect getting the Envy launched is quite time consuming.
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Old 15th July 2019, 01:37   #56828  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
- some people don't have a dedicated HTPC but still want to use madVR, and Windows 8 means being stuck in the past when it comes to general purpose computing (also the UI is awful but that's just an opinion)
OpenShell makes them pretty much the same, and I did say HTPC OS in my post. I didn't say all around general purpose OS that you also use for media playback.
Quote:
- newer hardware isn't always supported on/optimized for Windows 8
Unless I missed something they use the same drivers.
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Old 15th July 2019, 12:17   #56829  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Unless I missed something they use the same drivers.
8 months ago when I put together my HTPC I looked around whether I can use Win 8 with ryzen CPUs and b450 motherboards: there was only 1 (!) guy that mentioned that he managed to force somehow the chipset driver to install it on Win8. So I decided to go on the Win10 route.
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Old 15th July 2019, 14:13   #56830  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
What do you need Windows 10 for?
You can work with Windows 95 for many todayīs tasks or you can use Linux or you can use MacOS. Windows 10 is the current OS on Win platforms. Maybe the last with its update structure. Itīs a matter of time youīll have to use Windows 10, support for Windows 7 ends soon. And Windows 8 never really was a wide spread OS.
My mistake (in my opinion) was not to use Windows 10 but not to wait for enough feedback about the current update 1903. But - I never really had bigger problems with Windows XP, not with Windows 7 and not with Windows 10 including 1809 regarding HTPC usage. So I personally saw no risk to update.
I still can enjoy movies. 5 frame repeats during one movie is not amusing out of a perfectionistīs view, but on the other side weīre talking about 5 frame repeats, this is not the end of the world

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I did say HTPC OS in my post. I didn't say all around general purpose OS that you also use for media playback.
Weīre talking about Windows consumer systems. All of these are NOT real-time operating systems, so all of them can be considered a compromise and all of them are more or less suited the same way for HTPC usage.
You have rendering settings in madVR so you can make some adjustments depending on OS, GPU and other hardware and software factors. Up till now I always managed 'perfect' video playback. And now the first time I canīt really work around it. One case in so many years. I wonīt complain
Windows 10 is a kind of update to Windows 8 and Windows 10 itself is further updated.
I never had big problems with Win 10 so I never will go the step back to Windows 8 (I never used this OS).
Fell free to consider Win 8 a 'HTPC OS' (ridiculous) and Win 10 an 'all purpose OS' (ridiculous as well).

My intention was to warn from some Win 10 1903 problems - not to discuss what OS to use.
And like very very often mentioned in this thread - donīt use arguments like 'you must', 'you have to', 'this is right', 'this is wrong' and things like that. Like upscaling algorithms or HDR settings. Weīre talking about personal preferences, not about the 'right' settings. If everything is 100% clear and determined, madVR wouldnīt even have a settings dialogue.
I prefer Win 10 and Iīll have to work with the given possibilities. If the problems are not gone with further updates or latest with 1909, Iīll have to make a fresh install of Win 10 and update to 1809. Again not the end of the world, only some work for a couple of hours.
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Old 15th July 2019, 14:26   #56831  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
I prefer Win 10 and Iīll have to work with the given possibilities. If the problems are not gone with further updates or latest with 1909, Iīll have to make a fresh install of Win 10 and update to 1809. Again not the end of the world, only some work for a couple of hours.
Although that's true, but exactly that's why I've chosen LTSB/LTSC: I don't have time/energy/etc. to try to figure out and fix all the issues that can happen after a big upgrade (and sometimes only with security fixes as well), and there were reports before as well. I just want to use the PC that I have set up once, not constantly hacking
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Old 15th July 2019, 15:03   #56832  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
Fell free to consider Win 8 a 'HTPC OS' (ridiculous) and Win 10 an 'all purpose OS' (ridiculous as well).
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I didn't say Windows 8.1 was a HTPC OS in the sense that you're trying to imply. I asked about using it vs Windows 10 as the OS on a PC that's only used as a HTPC with madVR. As such how it handles general purpose tasks is irrelevant.

You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?

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Old 15th July 2019, 15:45   #56833  |  Link
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If a movie's HDR doesn't seem to peak above 150nit, Then setting the TV + Madvr to 150 nit, and using a 150nit 3Dlut would be better right ? Because then you have the slightly extended range of blacks for better contrast ?

This is on a VA-tv w/ 6500:1 contrast ratio. Am I correct in assuming this is how it'd work ?

As in the higher you set the TV, the brighter the black lvl, and if the peak range is not part of the movie, it just makes everything more grey/less black than is possible ?
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Old 15th July 2019, 17:20   #56834  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?
madshi once recommended Win 8.1 over Win 10 for madVR, but IIRC that was over a year ago. That's a couple of major updates ago, so I don't know if he feels the same way now.

I reluctantly moved on from 8.1 a couple of years ago, and 10 has given me no problems. I feel much more secure using the latest version of Windows because important security changes have been made. If I used 8.1 only on a dedicated HTPC not connected to the internet, I wouldn't bother upgrading.

I have no idea if madshi's recent work in the world of HDR makes use of any Win 10-specific capabilities, but you're quite right that with the current madVR release Win 10 adds nothing over 8.1.
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Old 15th July 2019, 17:24   #56835  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I didn't say Windows 8.1 was a HTPC OS in the sense that you're trying to imply.
-> "I thought Windows 8.1 was the preferred HTPC OS for madVR."
Ok. You 'thought' something. And 'preferred'. Iīm thinking many things too. And I know, some people (including madshi) prefer Windows 8 / 8.1. I prefer Windows 10. Like I said - preferences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You've posted a lot and still haven't provided any actual video playback features that are missing with Windows 8.1 from madVR's capabilities that need Windows 10. So, there aren't any?
In my opinion you can use Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 10 for a HTPC. I never used Windows 8, but 7 and 10. And I always could use all madVR features that I wanted to use.
I donīt think that something is missing in Windows 8.1 and I never claimed something like that.
In my personal setup I came across problems with Windows 10 1903. If I want to eliminate those problems at this moment, I can simply revert to Windows 10 1809, I personally donīt have to revert to Windows 8.1.
In my setup I donīt have any problems with Windows 10 1809, so I can say that Windows 10 1809 is a working OS for my setup.
So for me I canīt say that 8.1 is something preferred or 'better' than 10 because what is better than having no problems?
Itīs the same matter like many people stick to a GPU driver that they experience as working/flawless for them. My fault was that I didnīt stick with 1809. That has nothing to do with a general 8 vs. 10 debate.
So now Iīve posted a lot again and 'provided' my opinion. I can definitely live with your opinion (why not) maybe you can live with mine
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Old 15th July 2019, 19:11   #56836  |  Link
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windows 8 is recommended for technical reasons.
because you don't notice the technical regression doesn't mean they are not there.
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Old 15th July 2019, 19:53   #56837  |  Link
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Hi.

I've been using madVR 'SDR' for a few years now. I recently got a projector that can also do HDR. I have the projector configured for both SDR & HDR formats. So I would like to know how I go about setting up profiles within madVR. I've found post that explains how to set up for resolutions profiles so that box is ticked. I would like to create a 'Calibration' profile to switch between HDR and SDR 'BT.709/BT.2020’. Is this possible?
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Old 15th July 2019, 20:05   #56838  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
If a movie's HDR doesn't seem to peak above 150nit, Then setting the TV + Madvr to 150 nit, and using a 150nit 3Dlut would be better right ? Because then you have the slightly extended range of blacks for better contrast ?

This is on a VA-tv w/ 6500:1 contrast ratio. Am I correct in assuming this is how it'd work ?

As in the higher you set the TV, the brighter the black lvl, and if the peak range is not part of the movie, it just makes everything more grey/less black than is possible ?
That's right, with a movie that peaks so low is best to preserve the blacks, as long as your TV has a sufficient contrast ratio. Increasing blacks also causes noise to appear that otherwise remains hidden.
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Old 15th July 2019, 21:09   #56839  |  Link
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it made sense to move from 8 to 10 at the time as it was a free upgrade with a limited time span or so we were told, this was a bit of a con as you can still upgrade from win 7 / 8 free although Microsoft arent shouting this from the rooftops, about a month ago i had an old laptop on win7, i decided to run the win10 update activation and it worked, I now have a free win10 license for that machine showing on my MS account.

although once you've got the license you could do a clean win8 install but who could be bothered when everything seemed to be working. Problems only really started with 1803, 1709 was fine, AMD cards have been mostly fine throughout though, most issues ive had were just bad luck or user error, everything still works HDR/3D/23,976 frame drops still into days even with 3D.
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Old 15th July 2019, 22:13   #56840  |  Link
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windows 8 is recommended for technical reasons.
because you don't notice the technical regression doesn't mean they are not there.
Do you have any detailed information on what those issues are? I don't think I've ever seen them posted all together in the thread.
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