So much for AutoGK (GKIF4U)

[Maverick]

Well, I thought it was going to have WM9 support from the start, like was stated, but I was wrong.
Came back to doom9 after a while, hopefully seeing some progress on GKIF4U. After all 0.4 was a 'little' buggy
I was looking forward to some automation with my Windows Media encoding, I think I even offered help to begin with, but alas no.

I start it up, to be met with no Windows Media Video option. Oh well, No big deal. As long as they have another audio other than the 11 year old MPEG-1 Layer 3.... Oh Crap.

Well guys, I guess it's good work for something, I dont know what your new tool is meant to do apart from compete, and do the same job as an already good tool called Dr. Divx, but it dosent do what I want to do.

Keep... whatever you're doing... up.

[jggimi]

Maverick, have you read DDogg's post about free pies that he wrote back in the fall of 2001?

[Doom9]

Well, I thought it was going to have WM9 support from the start, like was stated, but I was wrong.

I'm sure you can point us to such a statement by len0x

AutoGK is a tool meant for standalone output. Can any existing standalones play WMV9? No. How about WMA audio? No (though you'll get the antique DivX audio format eventually).

I doubt that Dr. DivX even gets close and AutoGK started out as an XviD tool for which there is no equivalent.

but it dosent do what I want to do.

May I respectfully suggest that if you don't like existing tools, you start your favorite development environment and write your own program? Rants like this are useless.

[stax76]

but it dosent do what I want to do

it's not possible to make a application to do exactly what you want to do unless you code it yourself. It not a big deal to do so if you know how program. I bought a SkyStar 2 DVB card two weeks ago and noticed the available programs don't fit my needs very well. I coded a entire DVB program with the new wonder language C# in two weeks, most of the time spend inproving my .NET skills and putting general components together that can be reused in other programs. While coding the program I learned a lot about attributes and reflection which is a innovative and very important concept in .NET and in component programming in general, in fact it's used all over the place in the .NET framework. Next VisualStudio and .NET framework versions will introduce even more productivity features with generics being my favorite for fast prototyping and improved performance. Often there are already open source projects that could be modified, contributed to and used to learn, VirtualDubMod or DVX for instance support WM9.

Dolemite

[Sargon]

Originally posted by Doom9
I'm sure you can point us to such a statement by len0x

AutoGK is a tool meant for standalone output. Can any existing standalones play WMV9? No. How about WMA audio? No (though you'll get the antique DivX audio format eventually).

I doubt that Dr. DivX even gets close and AutoGK started out as an XviD tool for which there is no equivalent.

May I respectfully suggest that if you don't like existing tools, you start your favorite development environment and write your own program? Rants like this are useless.

Hey, I'm Newbie in this organization. So far I enjoy almost day by day the work and efforts done by Lenox. I am not a developper and I can't write a single line of a program, but a relative of mine is a developper and I can tell it is big labor; and I have the most profound respect for all developpers. So I enjoy AutoGK and Regular GK above all tools concerning DVD backup. Some bugs happens ??? Ok, we mention it and it will be corrected quickly. I could experienced this for about 4 months reading threads and articles. By the way I could learn more in 4 months here than on my own for 2 years.... Good job Lenox...I appreciate your "PIES"

[len0x]

I've been here for a while now and still posts like this amaze me
Do ppl still believe that they can get everything from freeware programs ???

[Doom9]

Do ppl still believe that they can get everything from freeware programs ???

Sure looks like it. But we're really spoiling them.. a huge collection of info for free, a great forum for free, great tools for free, etc.

[colordog]

@doom9 & @len0x

While this thread was indeed started by an obvious 'whiner', please do realize that some of us out here are very appreciative of this great freeware, and are very appreciative of the free hosting and forum service that Doom9 provides.

Although, I must agree with len0x - it's sometimes absolutely amazing that people complain about software that

1) is free
2) they don't code themselves
3) is free
4) they don't alpha or beta test
5) is free
6) don't help to develop with time or money, other than to say "it sucks"
7) is free.

Wow!

Oh yeah, welcome to the forums Maverick!

[jggimi]

Maverick has been a member for two years, Colordog. Maverick's only other post was in February 2002, and it was a "thank you" to Doom9. So while there may have been whining in this thread, it may just have been an off day. But based upon Maverick's level of contribution to the forum ... it was certainly an unprovoked diatribe.

[colordog]

Fair enough.

Sorry, I just love free pies - almost as good as free beer. Mmmm....

I really am a fan of Doom9 and GKnot. I'd actually pay for GKnot, if Doom9 and len0x would take money for it! I don't mind paying for great software that I use often.

[bilu]

Originally posted by len0x
I've been here for a while now and still posts like this amaze me
Do ppl still believe that they can get everything from freeware programs ???

Every new day I believe it harder...

Bilu

[bilu]

Originally posted by Doom9
Sure looks like it. But we're really spoiling them.. a huge collection of info for free, a great forum for free, great tools for free, etc.

You're asking for a "Thank you" Denial of Service?

Bilu

[BiaTch 5.0]

Can any existing standalones play WMV9? No. How about WMA audio? No

I have seen quite a few DVD players that support WMA if you had said WMA Pro, no I have not seen any support for it yet.

I've been here for a while now and still posts like this amaze me
Do ppl still believe that they can get everything from freeware programs ???

Most of the time I have found freeware to better than shareware programs in most cases, maybe because it's not done for financial gain, user + developer communication is better, development time is unlimited, the developers enjoy developing the soft more & most of the time projects are only created if there is need for the program.

To be honest I would like to see WMV9 support but with XviD very close to 1.0 I don't see any need for the very slow encoder commercial encoder.

All the work done is appreciated by me & I'm sure many others are very happy using AutoGK & GKnot.

[Maverick]

Alright alright, It was unprovoked, and it was a spur of the moment thread.
However, I do remember very early discussions about AutoGK about how it was going to support a number of different formats, and that did excite me. Thusly such a great letdown that it was to find the program in the state I found it.
And anyway, I have a hate for MP3. I know you'll complain about my continuing to complain, but I don't know what the big deal is about implementing support for another audio codec. Ogg, AAC, and my favorite of course, WMA9.

And as I said, it's good for what it does, but I'm sure you're all aware of heaps of other programs that encode into xvid/divx and MP3, it's just nothing new. It's fairly early in developement, and if the infrastructure is in place to expand to at least one other audio codec, please do.

I am greatly thankful for all of doom9's other resources, and Gordian Knot original, whilst a knot, is a great program.
If it were an earlier beta I might have been less critical.

[colordog]

*blink*

[colordog]

Well, I was writing a really big and involved several page essay, but I accidentally hit the 'back' button on my mouse, and zapped it. It's probably for the best, as I tend to ramble on and on about boring stuff.

In short:

If you were "letdown", you had expectations.

If you had expectations, you were silly to have had them.

You were silly because why should you have expectations for something that is free? Why should you be "disappointed" about something that you haven't given intelligence, time, or money to? Right? (Some would say, don't be critical at all, regardless of the release version of GKnot, or of the free pies in question).

On a more constructive note, there are a LOT of threads that discuss implementing OGG and AC3 into GKnot. It would probably help you to understand "what the big deal is" if you checked them out. Seriously - while I doubt it - it could be a case that the current developers are working on other issues more interesting to them, and YOU could even be the first person to make it happen! At least, if you read the relevant threads, you could contribute ideas and feedback after you understand the issues.

Just plain complaining will get you skewered 'round these parts.

Long live free pies!

[len0x]

Originally posted by Maverick
but I don't know what the big deal is about implementing support for another...

I'm gonna say last one thing here: don't you dare tell me about "big deal". While you're going out with friends, seeing movies or spending time with your girlfriend I have to sit and write support for OGG, WMA etc just to please you? You better rethink that... I have limited amount of time and only I decide how I should spend it. So for now I decided I'm gonna quitely ignore requests from ppl like you...

[bilu]

Originally posted by len0x
I'm gonna say last one thing here: don't you dare tell me about "big deal". While you're going out with friends, seeing movies or spending time with your girlfriend I have to sit and write support for OGG, WMA etc just to please you? You better rethink that... I have limited amount of time and only I decide how I should spend it. So for now I decided I'm gonna quitely ignore requests from ppl like you...

From what I've seen so far that happens all the time when someone develops an automatic tool. I remember all the shouting on Vidomi's forums. You've been doing a great job so far, and have a lot yet to ignore ...


Bilu

[colordog]

Originally posted by bilu
You've been doing a great job so far, and have a lot yet to ignore ...

I have to disagree with that attitude. While you're right, and people will tend to drift to "gimme what I want for free", len0x shouldn't have to be subjected to that mentality in his own development forum. If I was len0x, and had spent so much time upgrading and bringing new functionality to GKnot, I'd be really ticked off (to put it lightly) to read about some guy's disappointment about how much work and progress I've put into GKnot. That concept is simply asinine.

It's obvious from Maverick's postings that he doesn't understand why this is asinine. Using phrases like:

"... it was such a great letdown to find the program in the state [Maverick] found it..."
"... I don't know what the big deal is for implementing support for another audio codec"
"... if it were an earlier beta, I might be less critical..."
" keep ... whatever you're doing ... up"
Titling his thread "So much for AutoGK"

I would strongly suggest again for Maverick to read the "free pies" link that jggimi provided. Bluntly put, he has no basis to (1) "continue to complain", (2) be disappointed, (3) be critical (4) have any sort of expectations. It's ridiculous.

The only real function that these kinds of postings serve is to tick off the developers (see len0x's post above). One of the very, very few things the developers get in return for their massive amount of effort is simply our thanks. No money, stock options, or good parking spaces are given out. There's little recognition, no awards, and no glamour really either. There's self-satisifaction, and gratitude, both of which are tainted and downplayed from postings like those of Maverick. Len0x may ask himself, "why the hell am I putting in so much damn work only to have people complain about me not doing what they want? Screw this." If he did - would there be a future version of Gordian Knot? And let's be honest - I don't want to lose access to the free pies that I've been eating from the Len0x bakery, either.

We do not deserve answers from len0x and Doom about "where's my codec support?". When people like them give us so much effort and time, it is they that deserve our gratitude.

If you are disappointed, or letdown? You have many constructive options. (Stating your disappointment over a free product is not constructive. We call that whining.) You can:

1) Shut up and keep that disappointment to yourself
2) Use another program
3) Read about all the messages and threads concerning your specific item of disappointment, so you'll understand why 'your bidding' has not been done yet
4) Take #3 a step further, invest some of your own time and become a developer and help make it happen

Take #2 for instance: after all, Maverick states that he likes Dr. DivX - he could pay for it, and then he could go to the DivX forums and complain and complain and complain about its lack of codec support. That's a much more fair situation, as he would have entered the capitalistic mode of exchanging money for a product and the "right" to bitch at the company he bought it from. It might be viewed as annoying, but certainly wouldn't be unexpected in a commerical setting.

Here, it's unexpected.

In the future, I hope everyone would please consider how their statements might be viewed by other people in this forum community, especially those that provide you with GKnot and AutoGK F R E E of charge. You never pay anything to run the program, nor pay costs to host it so it's available for download.

DDog really did say it best:

Originally posted by DDog
The moral of this story is: if you like free pie, but not this weeks flavor, keep your pie hole shut about it, or you may not get the chance to try next weeks flavor. Or you can go bake your own, of course.

Because if you don't realize it, the danger here is that such complaints will turn len0x off to making GKnot, and then there won't be one. Such a scenario falls under "not cool", and I'd imagine that offenders would have to remain hidden in the underground for the rest of their life as video encoders hunt them down for sport and/or profit.

Read free pies.

[bilu]

@colordog
I wasn't referring to GordianKnot but to AutoGK.
The more streamlined (less options) a tool is, the more you'll see users whining about this or that feature support.

With less automated tools, users are more willing to do their stuff outside the main process. Of course they will be glad if blessed with that feature, but they're not afraid of doing stuff manually.

Whiners are guys who are afraid / not in the mood to do things themselves, not necessarily programming but e.g. audio/ subtitle muxing, etc.


Bilu