New Ogg Media DirectShow splitter

DAvenger · 4th February 2005, 12:09

RadLight Ogg Media DirectShow filter suite enables playback of Ogg and OGM files in any DirectShow based player (tested with Windows Media Player and, of course RadLight 4). It also comes with its own Ogg Vorbis DirectShow decoder filter.

Our main objective is to have a working & stable Ogg/OGM support in RadLight, something that wasn't possible using the original OggDS by Tobias Waldvogel/Xiph ... more features can be added later (support for Unicode subtitles & new audio/video formats) but I don't want to give you any false hope

Known issues

seeking does not follow keyframes, this may result in artifacts

As usually, your feedback is welcome

Download (initial 1.0.0.0 release, 3-feb-05)

bond · 4th February 2005, 12:59

nice

are these filters written from scratch or based on tobias'/gabest's or other sources?

also a small feature request:
imho if you call it ogg splitter than it should also support at least theora in .ogg

xiph already finalized the storage of theora and also flac in .ogg
of course there are already dshow decoders existing for both:
- flac: ffdshow, coreflac and illiminables decoder
- theora: ffdshow (THEO fourcc) and illiminables decoder

thanks!

DAvenger · 4th February 2005, 17:55

Quote:

are these filters written from scratch or based on tobias'/gabest's or other sources?

... from scratch

the RL Vorbis decoder is almost 2 years old and has been a part of the RL package ever since (now built against the latest libvorbis)

Quote:

imho if you call it ogg splitter than it should also support at least theora in .ogg

Theora & FLAC support is going to be added soon, I guess

Quote:

of course there are already dshow decoders existing for both

Yup. But RadLight users are lazy ... they want their player to playback all files natively

Sharktooth · 4th February 2005, 21:09

what about adding this filter to the OGM FAQs?

niamh · 4th February 2005, 21:36

Nice work DAvenger

I have a whole bunch of ogm files lying around due to GK testing, so I figured I'd give it a try..
ogm with x264 don't seek too well, sometimes it works, most of the time I get an assertion failed off the player though (MPC,WMP6.4 and TCMP), mainly, but not always, when seeking backwards.Other than that on "ordinary" stuff, it seems to work fine(notwithstanding the artifacts in seeking you mentioned)

MarkCoolio · 4th February 2005, 22:03

@DAvenger: does there exist any silent install switch for the Filter Setups? I mean I can use Radlight_xyz.exe /S but it is not fully silent. I still have to click one last message away.

Is there already something build in or can u try to build it for the next versions so that I could use your (great) filters for my windows unattended cd?

thanx a lot in advance

faxmactor · 5th February 2005, 10:58

I realize that the Radlight developers are really valiant and fearless people (and skilled, too), taking the long-time-stalling OGM burden on their shoulders

I had a (not really) buggy ogm, that after some seconds started sluttering with the so-called OggDS 0.9.9.6 (that's based on 0.9.9.3) so I returned to Tobias' old one,but that one can't connect to CoreVorbis). It plays like charm, seeking seeking shows artifacts, but at least, seems to be fast and reliable! (This was the point the I started to dislike ogm)

Good: Matroska splitter can connect to RLVorbis decoder
Bad: Ogg splitter won't connect to other vorbis decoders - I hope it'll be enabled later to connect (corevorbis in particular

, enabling users to choose according to own preference.

The question is, that are you planning to develop the Ogg container format further (I personally don't think that that would be really reasonable), or just achieving maximum compatibility? (The first option involves a long, long term commitment, or else it doesn't have *any* point)

Gokuro!

Atamido · 5th February 2005, 19:22

Quote:

Originally posted by DAvenger
Our main objective is to have a working & stable Ogg/OGM support in RadLight, something that wasn't possible using the original OggDS by Tobias Waldvogel/Xiph ...

Noting that the original OggDS filters had nothing to do with Xiph, and they only thing that Xiph will comment on them is that they are in their SVN.

I am wondering what the advantages/disadvantages of this filter are over the actual official Xiph filter by Illiminable?

celtic_druid · 5th February 2005, 19:51

Well as I understand it in the case of ogm's Illiminable's filters handle vorbis audio fine of course and parses the video stream. They however ignore subtitle streams and other audio streams like AC3, mp3, etc. That is unless things have changed.

bond · 5th February 2005, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by DAvenger
Theora & FLAC support is going to be added soon, I guess

thanks

RadScorpion · 5th February 2005, 21:14

@niamh: could you provide me with the .264 file ? I'm sure I could figure out.... btw. The seeking may sometimes "lock up" because the buffers are not preconfigured 100% correctly.

In the next release it should be possible to configure the buffer size - this may help especially when playing files over network.

@MarkCoolio: DAvenger will look into this.

@faxmactor: The main reason for developing the Ogg filters was to have "native" and stable support for OGG and OGM files. First we will focus on making full implementation of the standard... We will see how the users like our filters and then decide weather to add new features or not.

@pamel: Advantages...Disadvantages... no disrespect. I'm sure Illiminable's filters do great job with the theora and flac stuff but I got a complete lockup after opening few ogm files (no AC3 nor text streams were detected). I don't want my work to turn into any codec/container/author flamewar.

Since Tobias' filters are not being developed anymore and Illiminable's don't seem to do the job with OGM files I thought this one could be a little usefull.

@bond: yes.. I'll look at Theora tomorrow. The splitter uses abstract "codec-parser" class that makes adding new stream formats very easy.

niamh · 5th February 2005, 22:30

There you are RadScorpion

It's small, but I managed to make it crash.

RadScorpion · 6th February 2005, 09:13

nah..

bandwidth quota reached.

DAvenger · 6th February 2005, 11:57

I've tested the sample. In RadLight, I couldn't get any video even with the latest FFDShow installed (this is a bug in our playback module, I would have to manually setup the mediatypes aaand I am too lazy to do that right now

) Nevertheless, the seeking worked fine, no crash at all.

I've also tested MPC, got video and also the assertion failed error

(assertion failed libavcodec\h264.c;expression : pic->data[0]) which hints that the bug is in libavcodec and not in our filter.

What really surprises me is how did you get x264 into OGM and how come that our filter works?

You see, Theora doesn't and requires some implementation.

niamh · 6th February 2005, 13:59

Quote:

I've also tested MPC, got video and also the assertion failed error (assertion failed libavcodec\h264.c;expression : pic->data[0]) which hints that the bug is in libavcodec and not in our filter.

I don't disagree with that at all ( I have no clue

), but I get no crashes when muxed to mkv or avi (both Haali's splitter lately), I ought to mention.

Quote:

What really surprises me is how did you get x264 into OGM

Hmmmm VDubMod?

Quote:

and how come that our filter works?

Well you tell me, but I'm glad to bring good news

stephanV · 6th February 2005, 14:04

OGM is just Ogg in VFW mode so to speak. So whatever works in AVI also will work in OGM. Theres no surprise in that.

RadScorpion · 6th February 2005, 21:38

the x264 file worked fine for me... perhaps because of some little modifications I have done recently.

Btw. as promised I have taken a closer look at Theora.. and here's the result

- brand new theora decoder. Worked with all theora sample files I've found. Can decode picture into YUY2 output (I'll add other colorspaces soon). I have also rewritten the vorbis output routine so it can now be connected to CoreVorbis filter as well.

I'll do some little upgrades and the filters should be ready tomorrow.

bond · 6th February 2005, 22:00

Quote:

Originally posted by RadScorpion
Btw. as promised I have taken a closer look at Theora.. and here's the result

- brand new theora decoder. Worked with all theora sample files I've found. Can decode picture into YUY2 output (I'll add other colorspaces soon)

cool stuff! where/when can i download it?

also did you have a look at flac/speex in .ogg?

RadScorpion · 6th February 2005, 22:05

I'll release it tomorrow

- I really need some sleep right now .. and yes. I will take a look at FLAC and Speex too

SeeMoreDigital · 6th February 2005, 22:06

Hi RadLight guys,

Are you working on any other direct-show filters, splitters etc?

Cheers

4th February 2005, 12:09	#1 \| Link
DAvenger hacked Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic Posts: 440	New Ogg Media DirectShow splitter RadLight Ogg Media DirectShow filter suite enables playback of Ogg and OGM files in any DirectShow based player (tested with Windows Media Player and, of course RadLight 4). It also comes with its own Ogg Vorbis DirectShow decoder filter. Our main objective is to have a working & stable Ogg/OGM support in RadLight, something that wasn't possible using the original OggDS by Tobias Waldvogel/Xiph ... more features can be added later (support for Unicode subtitles & new audio/video formats) but I don't want to give you any false hope Known issues seeking does not follow keyframes, this may result in artifacts As usually, your feedback is welcome Download (initial 1.0.0.0 release, 3-feb-05) __________________ Pokec o sexe, láske a vzťahoch : http://www.mojvztah.sk Spyware, malware a vírusy : http://www.antispyware.sk Hudba, texty, akordy, noty, albumy, mp3 a videoklipy : http://www.musicworld.sk

4th February 2005, 12:59	#2 \| Link
bond Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,779	nice are these filters written from scratch or based on tobias'/gabest's or other sources? also a small feature request: imho if you call it ogg splitter than it should also support at least theora in .ogg xiph already finalized the storage of theora and also flac in .ogg of course there are already dshow decoders existing for both: - flac: ffdshow, coreflac and illiminables decoder - theora: ffdshow (THEO fourcc) and illiminables decoder thanks! __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free

4th February 2005, 21:09	#4 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,771	what about adding this filter to the OGM FAQs? __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

4th February 2005, 21:36	#5 \| Link
niamh Dismembered Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Craggy Island Posts: 873	Nice work DAvenger I have a whole bunch of ogm files lying around due to GK testing, so I figured I'd give it a try.. ogm with x264 don't seek too well, sometimes it works, most of the time I get an assertion failed off the player though (MPC,WMP6.4 and TCMP), mainly, but not always, when seeking backwards.Other than that on "ordinary" stuff, it seems to work fine(notwithstanding the artifacts in seeking you mentioned) __________________ *Allen's Axiom: When all else fails, read the instructions.*

5th February 2005, 10:58	#7 \| Link
faxmactor Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 27	I realize that the Radlight developers are really valiant and fearless people (and skilled, too), taking the long-time-stalling OGM burden on their shoulders I had a (not really) buggy ogm, that after some seconds started sluttering with the so-called OggDS 0.9.9.6 (that's based on 0.9.9.3) so I returned to Tobias' old one,but that one can't connect to CoreVorbis). It plays like charm, seeking seeking shows artifacts, but at least, seems to be fast and reliable! (This was the point the I started to dislike ogm) Good: Matroska splitter can connect to RLVorbis decoder Bad: Ogg splitter won't connect to other vorbis decoders - I hope it'll be enabled later to connect (corevorbis in particular , enabling users to choose according to own preference. The question is, that are you planning to develop the Ogg container format further (I personally don't think that that would be really reasonable), or just achieving maximum compatibility? (The first option involves a long, long term commitment, or else it doesn't have any point) Gokuro! Last edited by faxmactor; 5th February 2005 at 11:01.

4th February 2005, 22:03	#6 \| Link
MarkCoolio Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 53	@DAvenger: does there exist any silent install switch for the Filter Setups? I mean I can use Radlight_xyz.exe /S but it is not fully silent. I still have to click one last message away. Is there already something build in or can u try to build it for the next versions so that I could use your (great) filters for my windows unattended cd? thanx a lot in advance

5th February 2005, 19:51	#9 \| Link
celtic_druid Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,174	Well as I understand it in the case of ogm's Illiminable's filters handle vorbis audio fine of course and parses the video stream. They however ignore subtitle streams and other audio streams like AC3, mp3, etc. That is unless things have changed.

5th February 2005, 21:14	#11 \| Link
RadScorpion Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia Posts: 147	@niamh: could you provide me with the .264 file ? I'm sure I could figure out.... btw. The seeking may sometimes "lock up" because the buffers are not preconfigured 100% correctly. In the next release it should be possible to configure the buffer size - this may help especially when playing files over network. @MarkCoolio: DAvenger will look into this. @faxmactor: The main reason for developing the Ogg filters was to have "native" and stable support for OGG and OGM files. First we will focus on making full implementation of the standard... We will see how the users like our filters and then decide weather to add new features or not. @pamel: Advantages...Disadvantages... no disrespect. I'm sure Illiminable's filters do great job with the theora and flac stuff but I got a complete lockup after opening few ogm files (no AC3 nor text streams were detected). I don't want my work to turn into any codec/container/author flamewar. Since Tobias' filters are not being developed anymore and Illiminable's don't seem to do the job with OGM files I thought this one could be a little usefull. @bond: yes.. I'll look at Theora tomorrow. The splitter uses abstract "codec-parser" class that makes adding new stream formats very easy.

5th February 2005, 22:30	#12 \| Link
niamh Dismembered Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Craggy Island Posts: 873	There you are RadScorpion It's small, but I managed to make it crash. __________________ *Allen's Axiom: When all else fails, read the instructions.*

6th February 2005, 09:13	#13 \| Link
RadScorpion Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia Posts: 147	nah.. bandwidth quota reached.

6th February 2005, 11:57	#14 \| Link
DAvenger hacked Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic Posts: 440	I've tested the sample. In RadLight, I couldn't get any video even with the latest FFDShow installed (this is a bug in our playback module, I would have to manually setup the mediatypes aaand I am too lazy to do that right now ) Nevertheless, the seeking worked fine, no crash at all. I've also tested MPC, got video and also the assertion failed error (assertion failed libavcodec\h264.c;expression : pic->data[0]) which hints that the bug is in libavcodec and not in our filter. What really surprises me is how did you get x264 into OGM and how come that our filter works? You see, Theora doesn't and requires some implementation. __________________ Pokec o sexe, láske a vzťahoch : http://www.mojvztah.sk Spyware, malware a vírusy : http://www.antispyware.sk Hudba, texty, akordy, noty, albumy, mp3 a videoklipy : http://www.musicworld.sk

6th February 2005, 14:04	#16 \| Link
stephanV gone Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,709	OGM is just Ogg in VFW mode so to speak. So whatever works in AVI also will work in OGM. Theres no surprise in that.

6th February 2005, 21:38	#17 \| Link
RadScorpion Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia Posts: 147	the x264 file worked fine for me... perhaps because of some little modifications I have done recently. Btw. as promised I have taken a closer look at Theora.. and here's the result - brand new theora decoder. Worked with all theora sample files I've found. Can decode picture into YUY2 output (I'll add other colorspaces soon). I have also rewritten the vorbis output routine so it can now be connected to CoreVorbis filter as well. I'll do some little upgrades and the filters should be ready tomorrow.

6th February 2005, 22:05	#19 \| Link
RadScorpion Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bratislava, Slovakia Posts: 147	I'll release it tomorrow - I really need some sleep right now .. and yes. I will take a look at FLAC and Speex too

6th February 2005, 22:06	#20 \| Link
SeeMoreDigital Life looks better in HD Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Nottinghamshire, UK Posts: 10,862	Hi RadLight guys, Are you working on any other direct-show filters, splitters etc? Cheers __________________ \| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 \| My Network Layout & A/V Gear \|