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Old 7th February 2004, 03:59   #1  |  Link
Chainmax
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Need help with Spawn (DVD Season 1)

When serving the avs to VDubMod with just the mpeg2source line, I see only 1 interlaced frame every 5 and not 2 (which is what appears in plain 3:2 pulldown, right?). After aplying Telecide and KernelDeint as a postprocessor there is still a lot of combing in some places, although it seems not to happen at periodic intervals. Lastly, I think I saw some ghosting in a couple of frames.
Long story short, I'm stumped. Can anyone suggest me what to do here (especially how to confirm if blending is taking place)?

P.S: I own the DVD (it only costs 9 bucks, after all )

Last edited by Chainmax; 7th February 2004 at 04:02.
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Old 7th February 2004, 06:46   #2  |  Link
gizmotech
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I have seen a vob sample of this cartoon from a friend.

The series contains real interlacing, as well as full frame blending (in spots).

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Old 7th February 2004, 17:35   #3  |  Link
Chainmax
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But if it was true interlaced, wouldn't I see pretty much only interlaced frames in moving scenes? Also, what do you mean by "full frame" blending? How can I accurately detect all the places where it takes place and how do I get rid of it?
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Old 7th February 2004, 18:36   #4  |  Link
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ok, maybe "real interlacing" isn't the correct word, but the source contained a number of areas which were non matchable, and strictly interlaced content. Full frame blending, well that's where you watch through the source, and fix the frames manually. Identifying it is easy. Ususually looks like 1 frame super imposed onto another, commonly a poor IVTC transfer.

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Old 7th February 2004, 18:45   #5  |  Link
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So, what you're saying is that I shouldn't use Telecide() at all? While we're at it, what Deinterlacer would you recommend me to use? KernelDeint didn't even notice those interlaced frames I talked about. Should I turn to scripted deinterlacers like SSTomsMoComp or TMCkernelbob?

As for the blending, even though I checked only a portion of the movie, I saw only a couple of frames with ghosting and it was almost unnoticeable. IMO, it's not worth stepping through every frame of a 140min movie in order to repair it.

Last edited by Chainmax; 7th February 2004 at 19:09.
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Old 11th February 2004, 22:57   #6  |  Link
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Well?
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Old 19th February 2004, 18:39   #7  |  Link
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bUmP.
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Old 19th February 2004, 19:48   #8  |  Link
Wilbert
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Could you upload a part of the vob (30 frames) somewhere?
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Old 21st February 2004, 19:03   #9  |  Link
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I'm a little short on HDD space now, but I'll try to rip a vob and make a 3sec clip using vobedit soon.
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Old 10th April 2004, 22:07   #10  |  Link
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Ok, I made three clips. Clips 1 and 2 show the interlacing and are 4.66MB and 4.46MB in size respectively, whereas Clip 3 is where I think I spotted some blending and is 5.19MB in size.

Last edited by Chainmax; 26th November 2004 at 22:56.
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Old 14th April 2004, 22:25   #11  |  Link
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Is anyone interested in testing these samples?
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Old 16th April 2004, 06:49   #12  |  Link
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The fields themselves had combing! You can see it using only bob(). This cannot be fixed by any filter.

Code:
MPEG2Source("TheSource.d2v")
Bob()
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Old 17th April 2004, 01:20   #13  |  Link
Chainmax
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There's combing in the fields? That's not a common issue, is it?
There must be something I can do to at least reduce the problem, right?

Last edited by Chainmax; 17th April 2004 at 01:23.
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Old 17th April 2004, 08:24   #14  |  Link
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OK, I spent $5.50 at WalMart and got this God forsaken DVD. Now that I have it I've decided the earlier VHS release was most likely the source for this DVD.

I'm at least positive they did all their editing in video for the "uncut" scenes.

If I reach any satisfactory, non-comical conclusions I'll let you know. Though, at this moment, I'm not sure there is a solution for this source that doesn't involve flame and 9mm bullets.
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Old 17th April 2004, 14:22   #15  |  Link
Wilbert
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Yes, the ghosting is in both fields. There is not much you can do. You can try the vdub filter Exorcist:

http://republika.pl/voidon/virtualdub/index.html

But I don't know how good it works. So, try it and tell us!
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Old 17th April 2004, 21:30   #16  |  Link
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Well, I can't try it out myself: my computer freezes up in the middle of all encoding jobs I try to make, even though I just got an extra 256MBs of ram .
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Old 20th April 2004, 18:11   #17  |  Link
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I have an idea: wouldn't it be possible to deinterlace each field separately, weave the result and then IVTC (or whatever else applies)? Would something like SeparateFields().testbob().Weave().whateverelse do the trick?
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Old 26th April 2004, 17:18   #18  |  Link
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Well?
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Old 26th April 2004, 18:11   #19  |  Link
Mug Funky
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given that:

a) the chroma combing only occurs on a very small number of frames

and

b) the source quality is horrid

we can simply blur the chroma channel and the combing is gone.

Code:
yv12convolution(horizontal="1",vertical="1 2 1",Y=2,U=3,V=3,usemmx=true)
add this after a regular telecine. i've tried this and didn't notice any bad side effects (it doesn't matter overmuch if chroma is blurred).

it looks like this came from DV and an incorrect chroma upsampling DV codec (hellooooo canopus). that must be real fun to watch on a TV.

there's probably better ways to handle this, but with the oddness of the chroma-upsampling bugs out there, it would be very difficult, and honestly the source isn't worth it.

btw.. i wouldn't be so ready to bump a thread. usually people don't reply because they have no idea, or simply can't help. bumping usually doesn't change this. but don't be worried

[edit]

hmm... problem disappears when i use my oh-so-dodgy NTSC -> PAL blend-o-riffic script.

Code:

odd=doubleweave().selectodd().telecide(order=0,guide=1,hints=true).kerneldeint(order=0,sharp=true,threshold=0)
even=doubleweave().selecteven().telecide(order=1,guide=1,hints=true).kerneldeint(order=1,sharp=true,threshold=0)
interleave(even,odd)

converttoyuy2().convertfps(50).converttoyv12()
unblend()
changefps(25)
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Last edited by Mug Funky; 26th April 2004 at 18:18.
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Old 27th April 2004, 00:25   #20  |  Link
Chainmax
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The problem is that I don't know if I even have to IVTC as I couldn't find a pattern. What will a relatively untrained eye (like mine) notice from this chroma blurring?

Quote:
hmm... problem disappears when i use my oh-so-dodgy NTSC -> PAL blend-o-riffic script.


code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

odd=doubleweave().selectodd().telecide(order=0,guide=1,hints=true).kerneldeint(order=0,sharp=true,threshold=0)
even=doubleweave().selecteven().telecide(order=1,guide=1,hints=true).kerneldeint(order=1,sharp=true,threshold=0)
interleave(even,odd)

converttoyuy2().convertfps(50).converttoyv12()
unblend()
changefps(25)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, you're saying I should use this instead? Why change the framerate to 25 and not 23.976?

About the bumping, DarkNite said he'd give this a try and post results if he found anything worthwile. That's why I don't want this thread to disappear from page 1.
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