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Old 12th November 2003, 02:31   #1  |  Link
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D2Sroba FAQ - Fully Automated Quality ;)

D2Sroba FAQ - Fully Automated Quality
Version 1.0


Part I - Background & Requirements
Part II - Settings & Best Settings
Part III - Typical problems & How to get help


Happy reading!

Foreword

Several people did noteworthy contributions to make D2Sroba a great tool. They provided testing, ideas, and new features. Of course Tylo, the author, but also: homerjay, holomatrix and telemike, enthusiast users, and last but not least the good old DDogg, a die hard contributor at testing and discovering unusual cases.

Kudos to all and if I left somebody out please excuse me (and I deserve a strike).


Your input is appreciated. If you have questions or ideas which would make a contribution to this FAQ, please post them on this thread. Keep in mind though that this is not a support thread (see below how to get support).
__________________
MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD.
FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion.
Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported!
Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC.
Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion
3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster)

Last edited by r6d2; 28th December 2003 at 18:53.
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Old 12th November 2003, 02:34   #2  |  Link
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Part I – Background & Requirements

Part I – Background & Requirements
  1. Q. What is D2Sroba?
    D2Sroba is a plugin for DVD2SVCD which provides a quality-based approach to a normal encode. It was developed by Tylo using the AutoIt scripting language by Hiddensoft.
  2. Q. What is the infamous RoBa method?
    Once upon a time, there was a brilliant visitor to these forums, nicknamed Bach, who improved the ideas of something called Robshot's Method, and provided a theoretical background to apply it to SVCD encodes. DVD2SVCD decided to name this new approach "RoBa", honoring the creators.
  3. Q. What does D2Sroba have to do with Internal RoBa provided inside DVD2SVCD?
    DVD2SVCD did a first implementation of RoBa according to Bach’s original model, but the method had some quirks and the implementation was never supported officially by DVD2SVCD either. Tylo originally wanted to provide one-pass encodes in DVD2SVCD using CCE, and thus refined the process to make it more robust and with more features.
  4. Q. How does this method work?
    If you want all the original dirty details and the evolution, you may read this (old and looong) thread. If you just want to have a general overview, this guide may be useful.
  5. Q. It is too advanced stuff?
    In theory, yes, but Tylo has done a great job by providing increasingly better versions and the plugin is now in a very mature state, completely rewritten, and usable for almost anyone used to DVD2SVCD.

    For a daredevil newbie, the plugin may even prove to make things easier, since it automates many difficult decisions you have to make in DVD2SVCD when, as a newbie, you don't have the expertise.
  6. Q. Why should I use the D2Sroba plugin?
    The plugin will render an encode comparable in quality to an n-pass VBR in much less time.
  7. Q. Really, does it compare to a 9-pass VBR?
    It is actually better, IMHO. But don’t take my word for it. See for yourself!
  8. Q. What software do I need to use the plugin?
    You need DVD2SVCD 1.2.1b3 or later, the plugin itself and CCE 2.50 or 2.6x.
  9. Q. I’ve heard/read something about special CEE templates. Do I need them? How do I get them?
    D2Sroba does not make (or need) any templates of its own. However, you are advised to use RB's CCE templates in DVD2SVCD whether you use D2Sroba or not. To get them (or make your own) see this thread.
__________________
MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD.
FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion.
Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported!
Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC.
Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion
3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster)

Last edited by r6d2; 28th December 2003 at 18:52.
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Old 12th November 2003, 02:51   #3  |  Link
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Part II – Settings & Best Settings

Part II – Settings & Best Settings
  1. Q. What are the settings?

    CD Size: Self explanatory.

    Num CDs:

    'Auto' mode - Quality based. Automatically calculates the amount of disks required to achieve the quality chosen by the user (See Auto Q).

    This is the most powerful mode of D2Sroba. The goal of this mode is to equal or surpass the level of quality you specified by way of the Q number. Any number of CDs may be created, however, the choice will nearly always be 2 or 3 for an average length source.

    '1 to 4' mode - Size based. You may prefer to specify the number of disks desired. When you choose this method, D2Sroba simply becomes a predictive tool that attempts to achieve the target size you specify. It does this by adjusting quality.
    This mode should be used with caution and only by experienced users who wish to manually override the D2SRoBa quality orientation process for a specific reason.

    '?' mode - Hybrid of Size and Quality. The plugin will try different number of CDs, determined by the Max Q setting. Then it will pause the process and allow you to choose from a menu presenting several choices of target size. Information about the Q level associated with each size choice is presented, as well as the media utilization.

    Sample %: The plugin encodes several samples to determine the best Q to encode a movie with (hopefully) 1 single pass. You specify here the percentage of the movie you want to use in the sample.

    Auto Q: Specify here the minimum quality you expect. It will only be used in auto mode. Higher values mean less quality.

    Max Q: Specify here the worst quality you expect. It will only be used in size related modes (? and 1-4).

    Adjust Q: If prediction was a piece of cake, you’d enter a 0 value here. However, when encoding a sample you usually increase the output target size due to the rapid scene changes the sample implies. So, generally the predicted Q is a little bit too high and the first pass undersizes. You can set a value here which is subtracted from the predicted Q before actually doing the first pass.
  2. Q. What is the conditional sizing pass?
    When doing a single pass you may get an image which is too small to fill your target media. Sometimes (less often) it may turn out too large. The plugin allows you to set thresholds for both conditions, so a second sizing pass will make sure the media are as filled as they are with normal multipass mode in DVD2SVCD.

    Conditional sizing pass: When checked, the following thresholds (Limit %) will be applied:

    Undersize: If the output file is below this percentage of the target size, a second sizing pass will be enforced.

    Oversize: If the output file is above this percentage of the target size, a second sizing pass will be enforced.

    Q over: If the Q obtained is higher that this value, the plugin will enforce VBR mode no matter what.
  3. Q. What about that audio postponing thing?
    Since you don’t know at first the size the video part will have, you may specify a percentage of that space you want to allocate for audio. This way you can achieve a good balance of both items.

    Audio encoding after video: When checked, the plugin will postpone the audio encoding and use the corresponding bitrate for the resulting target media. You specify mode of operation on the first combo box:

    % of video: Audio BR is selected as a percentage of video BR. The plugin will only apply the percentage if resulting audio bitrate is higher than Min br (see below).

    Use Min br: Audio BR is fixed by the Min br parameter (see below).

    %: Determines how much of video BR will be allocated to audio BR. The 10% rule is a good balance.

    Min br: Specify here the minimum audio bitrate you prefer for your encode. Most audio gurus agree on 128 being a good minimum value. However, notice that it makes no sense to put a value here higher than the audio BR of the source, so check it first with you software player. (Some cheap translations are only 96-kbps).
  4. Q. What are those other setting on the right?

    Batch prepare: Check this and and D2Sroba will prepend some special code into the DVD2SVCD generated batch line to allow for batch encoding.

    Clean previous sample files: D2Sroba supports restart mode. If you have done important changes into the project file, it is likely that your previous sample files will be useless. Check this to have them erased before a new set is generated. "Important" means, for instance, changing the AVS script, max settings, etc. Otherwise, you can safely use samples from a previous run.

    Adjust max video bitrates: Check this to have the plugin adjust the max video bitrate according to your audio BR.

    Total bitrate: Set to 2756 to have a SVCD compliant output stream for a standalone with a 2x CD drive. Set to 5500 for a 4x CD drive if you want to create XSVCDs at 720x480/576 (NTSC/PAL) frame size.

    Max avg offset: If the video BR for your movie is greater than the maximum allowed less this offset, the plugin will switch to CBR, using only 1 pass in all cases. The default of 300 is reasonable. If for some reason you want to use OPV(+VBR) no matter what, set this to 120, which is the minimum offset allowed by CCE.
  5. Q. What are the best settings?
    The defaults are quite good. With time you’ll find out what works best for you.
  6. Q. OK. Now really, what are the best settings?
    You’re stubborn . OK. Start by setting Auto mode, Auto Q=35, Max Q=40, Sample=1%. Adjust Q is a gamble so there is no best value (you may try the default). Check audio after video, percentage mode, and Min br=112 or 128, whatever you prefer.

    To balance speed and maximum usage of your media check conditional second pass and set something like 2.0 and 0.5 as thresholds.

    Use Auto mode to let D2Sroba do its magic at its best.
  7. Q. How can I make sure my CDs are always filled?
    If you want to stretch your CDs fully at the cost of doing always 2 passes, check conditional sizing pass and set 0-0 in the thresholds.
__________________
MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD.
FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion.
Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported!
Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC.
Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion
3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster)

Last edited by r6d2; 28th December 2003 at 18:53.
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Old 12th November 2003, 02:59   #4  |  Link
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Part III – Typical problems & How to get help

Part III – Typical problems & How to get help
  1. Q. Where can I get support?
    The author maintains a thread dedicated to discuss new ideas in the Advanced Forum. The D2Sroba user community is increasing and you are likely to find help there from several people should you need it.

    Don't be affraid to post in the advanced forum. Distinction is made by complexity of topics and not by previous knowledge of users (hence the name "Advanced" and "Basic" "topics" ).

    As with any good problem post, you should provide your D2Sroba_log.txt file. If the problem is also DVD2SVCD related (usually not the case), post your dvd2svcd_log.txt file too. Try enclosing them with {size=1} and {/size}(1) to make them more readable.

    (1) Replace the curly brackets with square brackets or select SIZE=small when typing.
  2. Q. I'm getting an heavily undersized last image even with Q=1. How can I fix this?
    This is not a problem at all. If at Q=1 you get an undersized image, you cannot improve quality anymore. That is called a maxed out movie. If you want to use that leftover space, you may:

    a. Use a sharper resizer to keep more detail.
    b. Encode an additional audio track.
    c. Increase the frame size to 528x480/576, 544x480/576, 704x480/576 or even 720/576. FACAR will let you do this seamlessly. Notice though that by doing this you are creating a non-compliant SVCD. Check if your player supports it.
    d. Add some filtering to the source to make it fit on 1 less media that the current run (FACAR will help too by means of the PreResize script).
  3. Q. How do I make sure my encode is SVCD compliant? Why do I get a warning from DVD2SVCD about too high bitrate after recovering?
    DVD2SVCD has a checkbox on the bitrate tab to warn you about that. Uncheck it and let the plugin fix the max bitrates for you.

    If you don't uncheck the DVD2SVCD warning, it is safe to ignore the warning but it will freeze the process waiting for your input.
  4. Q. I can’t change the number of CDs. Why is it fixed in 1 media?
    When you select DVD output in DVD2SVCD, only 1 DVD media is supported.
  5. Q. Can I use CCE's filters with D2Sroba?
    Yes, of course. The problem is that through DVD2SVCD you may not get the settings you expect since CCE uses the last template loaded anyway, regardless of DVD2SVCD settings. If you want to use them, edit the template accordingly.

    However (IMHO), it's better to stick to AviSynth if you want some filtering.
  6. Q. Can I safely minimize the CCE/DVD2SVCD/D2Sroba log windows?
    Yes.
  7. Q. Can I use the computer while D2Sroba is running?
    Yes. However, D2Sroba is an AutoIt application which emulates user input. So if you are typing at the same time as the plugin is doing it, it may get confused. This is only critical during the prediction phase. After that, it is even safe to play Doom 3 (when released ). Rule of thumb: Don't touch the keyboard while D2Sroba is doing its magic.
  8. Q. It takes too long to get the Q (8+ iterations), and the log shows incredible jumps. What's wrong?
    D2Sroba uses the Newton method for finding roots. The method requires a monotonic derivative for the function BR(Q). On high values of Q, it may diverge. D2Sroba is best suited to quality encodes, where Q<=40. If you are stretching the encode into fewer media than needed, a high Q may be the source of your problems. Try Auto mode to let the plugin advice you on how many media are needed.
  9. Q. I prefer using TMPGEnc/Procoder for my encodes. Does D2Sroba support other encoders?
    No. The author only supports CCE. However, implementing RoBa concepts with other encoders is possible. You’re welcome to code a plugin too!
  10. Q. When I try to recover a D2S project that was made with TMPGEnc, D2SRoba crashes. How do I fix this?
    D2Sroba only supports CEE. OTOH, Switching encoders in DVD2SVCD is not supported on a resume. Weird things may happen. It you switch encoders, better to start from scratch.
  11. Q. I still want to use TMPGEnc’s CQ mode and don’t try to convince me of CCE OPV being better.
    You can indeed use part of the functionality of the D2Sroba plugin with TMPGEnc. It may make you choose the right number of CDs to achieve a given quality. Then you can use TMPGEnc 2-pass VBR with the selected number of CDs or adjust the initial CQ value to meet your target.

    However, switching encoders after a resume is not supported by DVD2SVCD so should you do this, restarting from scratch will save you lots of trouble.
  12. Q. Come on! I really need true native support for TMPGEnc!
    OK. Read this thread.
  13. Q. I’m stuck with this.
    That is not a question.
  14. Q. OK, then. Is this a question?
    Is this an answer?
  15. Q. I've noticed you believe that FAQ stands for Fully Automated Quality. It that a typo?
    Uh... And what does it really stand for?
__________________
MPEG4 quality with MPEG2? - Try the Poor Man's DVD.
FACAR - As seen on TV! - The Complete Idiot's Guide to a good DVD Conversion.
Time is money. Try D2Sroba for DVD2SVCD (FAQ) and save both. All electricity bills supported!
Do you know how much overscan and which resolution your TV has? Find out if NTSC.
Moderator: 1: one who arbitrates 2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion
3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor (Webster)

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