Final Release of WMV-9 VCM codec

mingcl · 8th July 2003, 02:44

Dear forum members,

Today we released the final version of the Windows Media Video 9 VCM codec, designed to meet 2 important needs:

1. Legacy encoding and editing applications can now support the WMV9 codec in file containers such as AVI.

2. WMV 9 content can now reach desktops running Windows Media Player 6.4

For customers using the 6.4 player, the WMV9 VCM decoder will be automatically downloaded the first time the player attempts to play content that has been encoded in WMV-9. For installation on a PC where internet access or administrator privileges are not available, we have released a standalone installer package that can be scripted to install using any software distribution software.

The standalone package containing the codec, EULA and documentation outlining how to incorporate the VCM codec into applications is available for download at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...odecs/vcm.aspx

In addition to fixing bugs in the beta release, we have made this VCM dll work for Win2K, WinME, and Win98SE, in addiiton to XP.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

Sgt_Strider · 8th July 2003, 05:22

Ming, I started a post a while ago to ask about 2 pass encoding bitrate, but you weren't very specific. I was wondering if you can answer that now? This is the post from before:

I don't think there is a calculator that is available for
calculating the right bitrate to use for a WM9 2 pass
encode session. There is one for xvid, RV9, and divx5. Do
anyone here know a formula to determining the right
bitrate? I made a post in the doom9 forum and a microsoft
employee name MingCl mention the following:

"The way to calculate the bitrate for 2-pass VBR is
pretty much the same as CBR (except the factor of buffer
size in CBR).

However, one key factor, which we didn't seem to document
in the help of the VCM beta release (and I will make sure
that we add this in RTM), is that there is no frame
dropping allowed in the VBR mode on the encode side. That
is, if the specified bitrate is too low and the ecoder
can't meet this target even when using the lowest
quality, it will exceed the bitrate. This is documented
in WMEncoder 9, but not WMV 9 VCM beta.

But I am not sure whether this is the cause of Crabba's
issue since it is strange that the bitrate is decreased
when the key frame distance is reduced. It should be the
other way. So I do need to get Crabba's settings and
possibly source as well to repro the problem here."

I'm hoping that one of you at least have a clue in what
he's saying and clearify this for me. Thx

mingcl · 8th July 2003, 22:47

Thanks for the questions.

The way we calculated the bitrate for 2-pass VBR is pretty straightforward - total number of bits used divided by the clip length. WMV 9 encode would try to meet this target in its rate control.

However, since we don't allow any frame to be dropped for VBR, the final bitrate might exceed the one users specify before encoding if the bitrate is too low and the encoder still can't meet the target bitrate using its lowest quality level to encode. But this should only happen in extreme cases.

Note that when we calculate the bitrate, we only count the bits for the video elementary stream. That is, stream without file container overhead. So the final file size will be a few percent higher than what you specify or expect.

I am not sure whether this answers your question.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

bond · 8th July 2003, 23:27

Quote:

Originally posted by mingcl
In addition to fixing bugs in the beta release, we have made this VCM dll work for Win2K, WinME, and Win98SE, in addiiton to XP.

wow wow, today a directshow filter for rv9 was released and now that...

now the heavy testing can begin

Sgt_Strider · 9th July 2003, 01:59

Quote:

Originally posted by mingcl
Thanks for the questions.

The way we calculated the bitrate for 2-pass VBR is pretty straightforward - total number of bits used divided by the clip length. WMV 9 encode would try to meet this target in its rate control.

However, since we don't allow any frame to be dropped for VBR, the final bitrate might exceed the one users specify before encoding if the bitrate is too low and the encoder still can't meet the target bitrate using its lowest quality level to encode. But this should only happen in extreme cases.

Note that when we calculate the bitrate, we only count the bits for the video elementary stream. That is, stream without file container overhead. So the final file size will be a few percent higher than what you specify or expect.

I am not sure whether this answers your question.

Thanks,

Ming
Microsoft

No it really didn't answer my question. What if I want to use the WME9 Encoder and I want to use WM9 5.1 Audio, how will I calculate the overhead and everything else?

Lobuz · 9th July 2003, 03:48

One question: How can I set up the output video color space to YUY2 instead of YV12 with WMV9?

Regards
Lobuz

mingcl · 9th July 2003, 07:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
No it really didn't answer my question. What if I want to use the WME9 Encoder and I want to use WM9 5.1 Audio, how will I calculate the overhead and everything else?

There are rate controls in each encoder (e.g., WMV9 and WMAPro 5.1). You specify the bitrate for each stream separately in WMEncoder. Each codec will make sure it meets the target bitrate. The only thing that might be hard to project is the size (overhead) of the file container (e.g., ASF in case of using WMEncoder). However, since the percetage of this overhead is typically very small unless the bitrate for the elementary streams is very low. So the overall impact should be quite small.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobuz
One question: How can I set up the output video color space to YUY2 instead of YV12 with WMV9?

Lobuz,

You can use the VCM or the DMO codec in the DShow GraphEdit. I believe you can control the output color space from GraphEdit. And of course some of the video cards out there do not support YV12 output. In this case, the decoder would default to YUY2 if the card supports this format.

Ming
Microsoft

Sgt_Strider · 9th July 2003, 07:25

Quote:

Originally posted by mingcl
There are rate controls in each encoder (e.g., WMV9 and WMAPro 5.1). You specify the bitrate for each stream separately in WMEncoder. Each codec will make sure it meets the target bitrate. The only thing that might be hard to project is the size (overhead) of the file container (e.g., ASF in case of using WMEncoder). However, since the percetage of this overhead is typically very small unless the bitrate for the elementary streams is very low. So the overall impact should be quite small.

Ming
Microsoft

Alright from the 2 posts that you have provided, I get the idea that I will the encoder will never really give me the exact filesizes that I want from my choosing of the bitrate. However it'll be really close.

In the help file of the WMV-9 VCM codec, this is what I found: "The Windows Media Video 9 VCM encoder will encode the content to a stream that is as close as possible to the specified bit rate. Often, the resulting stream has a slightly higher or lower bit rate than specified.

"When you specify the bit rate for two-pass VBR, the value is the average bit rate for the entire stream, not the average over an interval determined by the buffer window."

Ok I understand that and I don't think you have answer my question about the overhead. How do I calculate that? Also how does resolution factor into the calculation of the bitrate?

snowcrash · 9th July 2003, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by bond
wow wow, today a directshow filter for rv9 was released and now that...

now the heavy testing can begin

What's this about a directshow filter for RV9? I can't find anything about this.

bond · 9th July 2003, 10:31

@strider
i guess what ming wants to say is that you cant exactly calculate the final filesize as you cant calculate the overhead (you have to guess -> ~5mb?)

@snowcrash
what about using the search function?

wing1 · 9th July 2003, 15:45

now there are three contenders : xvid, wmv9, & RV9

Thanks for a great codec. It is really close to xvid quality. Basically a toss up between xvid or wmv9 now.

snowcrash · 10th July 2003, 01:35

bond,

I searched the forum and cannot find any mention of this "directshow filter for rv9". That's why I'm asking.

celtic_druid · 10th July 2003, 05:21

That would be because it isn't just for RV9. Thread is here anway.

Dark-Cracker · 10th July 2003, 08:50

hum could u add the save of the parameters in the registry plz ?
thank u

Bye

wing1 · 10th July 2003, 14:02

@mingcl
what are the chance for this codec to be playable via xbox?

Vladdy · 11th July 2003, 09:48

@ wing1

bwahahahahahahah

Thats just funny.. I realise you're asking a serious question, but what chance do you have of MS 'supporting' or making available a codec which well, you shouldn't really have anyway.. To be able to play anything naughty like mpg4 codecs, you'd need a modchip.. Which we all know MS's view on that one

celtic_druid · 11th July 2003, 15:03

Haven't really looked into it too much, but I would think with the recent developments you could run xbmp without a modchip or even opening your XBox for that matter.

Apparently XBMP does support WMV9, although I am not sure about out of a WMV container.

amigd23 · 11th July 2003, 22:10

@Ming

Will there be an ACM version of Windows Audio Codec 9 ?
It seems I still can't use WMA9 for WMV9 in VirtualDUB !

Crabba · 12th July 2003, 01:00

Great news indeed! Now if you could also include a decoder properties window where you can change post-processing settings that would be REALLY great! Since you might want to be able to use different postprocessing settings on different material, and going in the registry to change each time isn't too funny.

Great stuff nonetheless! I've been looking forward for this one

wing1 · 12th July 2003, 01:19

well, wmv-9 vcm codec is MS for containers other then wmv. Nevertheless, it belongs to MS. Xbox is MS PC console which is designed to use MS products....so I figure the build-in media player could be allow to play this particular codec in AVI container. Just a thought

8th July 2003, 02:44	#1 \| Link
mingcl Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 15	Final Release of WMV-9 VCM codec Dear forum members, Today we released the final version of the Windows Media Video 9 VCM codec, designed to meet 2 important needs: 1. Legacy encoding and editing applications can now support the WMV9 codec in file containers such as AVI. 2. WMV 9 content can now reach desktops running Windows Media Player 6.4 For customers using the 6.4 player, the WMV9 VCM decoder will be automatically downloaded the first time the player attempts to play content that has been encoded in WMV-9. For installation on a PC where internet access or administrator privileges are not available, we have released a standalone installer package that can be scripted to install using any software distribution software. The standalone package containing the codec, EULA and documentation outlining how to incorporate the VCM codec into applications is available for download at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...odecs/vcm.aspx In addition to fixing bugs in the beta release, we have made this VCM dll work for Win2K, WinME, and Win98SE, in addiiton to XP. Thanks, Ming Microsoft

9th July 2003, 10:31	#10 \| Link
bond Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,780	@strider i guess what ming wants to say is that you cant exactly calculate the final filesize as you cant calculate the overhead (you have to guess -> ~5mb?) @snowcrash what about using the search function? __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free

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8th July 2003, 05:22	#2 \| Link
Sgt_Strider Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 223	Ming, I started a post a while ago to ask about 2 pass encoding bitrate, but you weren't very specific. I was wondering if you can answer that now? This is the post from before: I don't think there is a calculator that is available for calculating the right bitrate to use for a WM9 2 pass encode session. There is one for xvid, RV9, and divx5. Do anyone here know a formula to determining the right bitrate? I made a post in the doom9 forum and a microsoft employee name MingCl mention the following: "The way to calculate the bitrate for 2-pass VBR is pretty much the same as CBR (except the factor of buffer size in CBR). However, one key factor, which we didn't seem to document in the help of the VCM beta release (and I will make sure that we add this in RTM), is that there is no frame dropping allowed in the VBR mode on the encode side. That is, if the specified bitrate is too low and the ecoder can't meet this target even when using the lowest quality, it will exceed the bitrate. This is documented in WMEncoder 9, but not WMV 9 VCM beta. But I am not sure whether this is the cause of Crabba's issue since it is strange that the bitrate is decreased when the key frame distance is reduced. It should be the other way. So I do need to get Crabba's settings and possibly source as well to repro the problem here." I'm hoping that one of you at least have a clue in what he's saying and clearify this for me. Thx

8th July 2003, 22:47	#3 \| Link
mingcl Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 15	Thanks for the questions. The way we calculated the bitrate for 2-pass VBR is pretty straightforward - total number of bits used divided by the clip length. WMV 9 encode would try to meet this target in its rate control. However, since we don't allow any frame to be dropped for VBR, the final bitrate might exceed the one users specify before encoding if the bitrate is too low and the encoder still can't meet the target bitrate using its lowest quality level to encode. But this should only happen in extreme cases. Note that when we calculate the bitrate, we only count the bits for the video elementary stream. That is, stream without file container overhead. So the final file size will be a few percent higher than what you specify or expect. I am not sure whether this answers your question. Thanks, Ming Microsoft

9th July 2003, 03:48	#6 \| Link
Lobuz Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 155	One question: How can I set up the output video color space to YUY2 instead of YV12 with WMV9? Regards Lobuz

9th July 2003, 15:45	#11 \| Link
wing1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 280	now there are three contenders : xvid, wmv9, & RV9 Thanks for a great codec. It is really close to xvid quality. Basically a toss up between xvid or wmv9 now.

10th July 2003, 01:35	#12 \| Link
snowcrash Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 99	bond, I searched the forum and cannot find any mention of this "directshow filter for rv9". That's why I'm asking.

10th July 2003, 05:21	#13 \| Link
celtic_druid Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,175	That would be because it isn't just for RV9. Thread is here anway.

10th July 2003, 08:50	#14 \| Link
Dark-Cracker Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,195	hum could u add the save of the parameters in the registry plz ? thank u Bye

10th July 2003, 14:02	#15 \| Link
wing1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 280	@mingcl what are the chance for this codec to be playable via xbox?

11th July 2003, 09:48	#16 \| Link
Vladdy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	@ wing1 bwahahahahahahah Thats just funny.. I realise you're asking a serious question, but what chance do you have of MS 'supporting' or making available a codec which well, you shouldn't really have anyway.. To be able to play anything naughty like mpg4 codecs, you'd need a modchip.. Which we all know MS's view on that one

11th July 2003, 15:03	#17 \| Link
celtic_druid Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,175	Haven't really looked into it too much, but I would think with the recent developments you could run xbmp without a modchip or even opening your XBox for that matter. Apparently XBMP does support WMV9, although I am not sure about out of a WMV container.

11th July 2003, 22:10	#18 \| Link
amigd23 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 14	@Ming Will there be an ACM version of Windows Audio Codec 9 ? It seems I still can't use WMA9 for WMV9 in VirtualDUB !

12th July 2003, 01:00	#19 \| Link
Crabba Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 29	Great news indeed! Now if you could also include a decoder properties window where you can change post-processing settings that would be REALLY great! Since you might want to be able to use different postprocessing settings on different material, and going in the registry to change each time isn't too funny. Great stuff nonetheless! I've been looking forward for this one

12th July 2003, 01:19	#20 \| Link
wing1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 280	well, wmv-9 vcm codec is MS for containers other then wmv. Nevertheless, it belongs to MS. Xbox is MS PC console which is designed to use MS products....so I figure the build-in media player could be allow to play this particular codec in AVI container. Just a thought