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Old 6th May 2003, 22:54   #1  |  Link
hypercube
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DTSWAV DirectShow Filter released

now it was easy to play DTS/WAV in Windows Media Player.

you can download it on my website:
http://hypercube.is.dreaming.org

warning: this is a poor release, no seeking, no restart allowed.

note1: only windows media player support DirectShow Filter association.
So don't blame me if winamp open your WAV without playing the file.


note2: you can rename your DTS/WAV files, it doesn't care.
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Old 6th May 2003, 23:33   #2  |  Link
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Quote:
only windows media player support DirectShow Filter association
In fact, also 'Zoom Player' plays *.dts (both 48 + 44.1 kHz) perfectly (if configured Manual FIlters: Auto by Extension). Even with seeking :-) :-) :-)

Now: if HyperCube will work in 'PCM Engine'-mode (i.e. outputting the 6 pcm-files), it's time for me to open a bottle of champagne (I know it already works on 48.1 kHz dts).

Pressing thumbs ...
Andreas
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Old 6th May 2003, 23:54   #3  |  Link
Maxiuca
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Quote:
Originally posted by kempfand

Now: if HyperCube will work in 'PCM Engine'-mode (i.e. outputting the 6 pcm-files), it's time for me to open a bottle of champagne (I know it already works on 48.1 kHz dts).

Andreas [/B]
48 kHx dts encoding works fine. In fact I'm writing a small guide about it right now. What do you mean by "PCM Engine mode"? Anyway I use graphedit, DTSSource, File writer, WAV Dest and Intervideo Filters to encode a DTS file to a 6ch WAV file (which has bad header and cannot be read properly in any app, btw.). I also wrote a simple program that splits this into 6 mono waves. I'll post it to the forum soon (it's in very alpha stat right now).

As for 44.1 dts decoding:
I've been trying to capture the DTS soundtrack from laserdiscs. I wanted to covnert a wav file to .dts file with besplit and than do it the same way as with 48 khz dts. It worked fine with a wav file created by surcode (btw. WAV Dest and File Writer always produces a 48 kHz wave file, well not exaclty 48 kHz but the WAV header is wrong again... but I also solved this problem in my small program) but besplit doesn't work with the wav-dts files captured from a laserdisc.

--- the log for DSPguru---

BeSplit v0.9b4 by DSPguru.
--------------------------

Logging start : 05/05/03 , 20:45:35.

BeSplit -core( -logfilea belog.txt -input lms2.wav -output lms2.dts -type dtswav -fix )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSplit -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : lms2.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Channels Count: 5.1, Bitrate: 4096kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output : lms2.dts
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:01:01:811] | Writing lms2.dts
[00:01:01:811] +---------------------
[00:01:01:811] Operation Completed !
[00:00:04:000] <-- Process Duration
Logging ends : 05/05/03 , 20:45:39.

------ end of log -------

Something is wrong with the bitrate (should be 1411). Also the file that was produced was two times smaller then the input file. Any ideas how to fix it (maybe DSPguru should contact hypercube about it, as DTSWAVSource does read this fine...)

Anyway. DTSWAVSource solved this problem (more or less, as this is in fact a very early and poor release, but it works!!). It reads the dts-wav from laserdisc fine and allows to decode it using the graphedit method.

So generally: DTS decoding in now possible!!!
(btw. when I asked about it one week ago or so, someone anwsered that I should forget about it, well i didn't )

There is only one problem with DTSWAVSource. It seems it doesn't recognize the end of the file. When I go the grapedit way with WAV Dest and File Writer, it doesn't stop after the end of the dts-wav file but produces an unlimited wav file with noise after the decoded sound. It's not a big problem, as you can always press stop in graphedit and cut the noise out, but if the author could fix this it would be very nice.

Maxiuca

Last edited by Maxiuca; 7th May 2003 at 00:05.
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Old 7th May 2003, 08:05   #4  |  Link
hypercube
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@kempfand
as say Maxiuca, I am not sure my filter work with HT3 due to
START/STOP/SEEK features...for instance

about 'Zoom Player' : it play .DTS file but not .WAV with DTS data,
isn't it ? For example, if you use the "render file" function in
Graphedit, on your DTS/WAV file, graphedit use WAV parser, not my
filter. You have to build the graph yourself... It was exactly the
same problem with HT3. You will have to build the graph yourself:

DTSWAVSource => Intervideo Audio Decoder => Hypercube Wrapper
^
check 5.1 output

@Maxiuca
your besplit pb is strange because I test my DTSWAVFilter only with
WAV produced by Surcode. So it was a miracle my filter work with
Laserdisk DTS and besplit doesn't work with...


how have you rip this DTS/WAV file ?



Quote:
There is only one problem with DTSWAVSource. It seems it doesn't recognize the end of the file. When I go the grapedit way with WAV Dest and File Writer, it doesn't stop after the end of the dts-wav file but produces an unlimited wav file with noise after the decoded sound.
this problem doesn't seems to appear with Surcode files. may be
laserdisk track is not exactly the same format than DTS/WAV...
I will put a "DTS/WAV to DTS" tool (doing exactly the same job than
besplit) on my website. could you test it on your file ?

anyone interested in "DTS to DTS/WAV" tool ?
may be such DTS/WAV (48Khz) can be played on CDR ...
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Old 7th May 2003, 09:17   #5  |  Link
Maxiuca
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Quote:
your besplit pb is strange because I test my DTSWAVFilter only with
WAV produced by Surcode. So it was a miracle my filter work with
Laserdisk DTS and besplit doesn't work with...
Well than in fact it is a miracle Where did you get the documentation for this filter from? Could you maybe share it with me?
Quote:
how have you rip this DTS/WAV file ?
I just connect the LD player with a optical cable to my soundcard and record it to a WAV file. I already did it with ac-3 soundtracks and it works like charm.
Quote:
this problem doesn't seems to appear with Surcode files. may be laserdisk track is not exactly the same format than DTS/WAV...
You are right. I've tried it with surcode file and it works fine. But so does BeSplit... Strange. The laserdisc track should be exaclty the same...
Quote:
I will put a "DTS/WAV to DTS" tool (doing exactly the same job than besplit) on my website. could you test it on your file?
Sure, I'll test. When will you put that tool? Any chance you could share the source code with me?
Quote:
anyone interested in "DTS to DTS/WAV" tool ?
may be such DTS/WAV (48Khz) can be played on CDR ...
A 48 kHz DTS/WAV cannot be played on a CD-R as you simply cannot record a 48 kHz file to a CD... The only way is to decode the 48 kHz DTS file and than encode it in surcode at 44.1 kHz.
But I'm personally interested in the oposite way, so 44.1 -> 48, or just 44.1 kHz DTS to 48 kHz AC-3 (the DTS encoder by Surcode is rather expensive...). I'm writing a small guide on transfering Laserdisc to DVDs. There are some LDs that have never been released on DVDs and released on a LD only with DTS soundtrack (for example: The Schindler's List).

--
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Old 7th May 2003, 09:52   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
You are right. I've tried it with surcode file and it works fine. But so does BeSplit... Strange. The laserdisc track should be exaclty the same...
another bone for my teeth
Could you put this file anywhere so I can download it and analyse it.
(use private message)

Quote:
Sure, I'll test. When will you put that tool? Any chance you could share the source code with me?
I'm planning to publish some coding stuff, like a BitStreamReader API,
MPEG2 demultiplexer example...
I published the DTSWAV => DTS conversion scheme on dvdrhelp forum:
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153132

DTS spec can be found in ETSI website. version 1.2.1 are really good.
May be DTS decoding will be possible with this document... But it's
too hard for me.
simply search "DTS Coherent Acoustics; Core and Extensions" with google.
With this document, it should be possible to make a DTS frame editor
with Cut/paste features...
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Old 7th May 2003, 10:05   #7  |  Link
Maxiuca
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You can dl a DTS/WAV file from a Laserdisc here:

http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~wj23277/lms.zip

it a very short clip from Last Man Standing. It plays fine in WinDVD3/4 when recorded to a CD, but doesn't work with neihter BeSplit nor with WAVDTSSource... This is funny, because I have recorded another clip (but it's 20 mb and I have no place to upload it...) and it works almost fine with WAVDTSSource (only this eof problem).

Anyway, maybe this file will be helpful.

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Old 7th May 2003, 10:05   #8  |  Link
hypercube
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Quote:
you simply cannot record a 48 kHz file to a CD
in my opinion, this is not so clear than you said.

How DTS on CDR works ?
Surcode produce DTS data then encapsulate them in WAV headers to
be successfully handled by burning softwares. So WAV header contain
stuff like "44.100Khz Stereo 16 bits".
Don't forget this: WAV header are NOT present on CDR !

But, how CDR/DTS are decoded ?
DTS receiver recognize 14 bits DTS format then decode it and play it.

Here my idea:
put a 48Khz DTS stream in WAV with fake WAV header: "44.100Khz Stereo 16 bits". You CAN burn this file !
then, your CDR will contain 14 bit DTS stream at 48khz. And I'm
sure every DTS receiver can handle this because they can handle
regular DTS streams at 48Khz from DVD.
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Old 7th May 2003, 10:28   #9  |  Link
Maxiuca
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Quote:
in my opinion, this is not so clear than you said.

How DTS on CDR works ?
Surcode produce DTS data then encapsulate them in WAV headers to
be successfully handled by burning softwares. So WAV header contain
stuff like "44.100Khz Stereo 16 bits".
Don't forget this: WAV header are NOT present on CDR !

But, how CDR/DTS are decoded ?
DTS receiver recognize 14 bits DTS format then decode it and play it.

Here my idea:
put a 48Khz DTS stream in WAV with fake WAV header: "44.100Khz Stereo 16 bits". You CAN burn this file !
then, your CDR will contain 14 bit DTS stream at 48khz. And I'm
sure every DTS receiver can handle this because they can handle
regular DTS streams at 48Khz from DVD.
You are right. It works. I dunno why and how, but i does work (it works with WinDVD4). But i really don't understand why Theoretically the receiver gets now only 44100 bytes a second instead of desired 48000 bytes. I tested it with Titanic Trailer and what i mean is that when playing from DVD the stream should be 4:13 long but it's 4:35 long. So the result is playing 8% slower than the input. It maybe ok with some movies, but definately not good for music. The CD/DTS are produced in a different way. They are encoded as 44.1 kHz DTS files form 44.1 kHz sources.

So to have it done right, you have to decode the 48 kHz file fist, then downsample all waves to 44.1 kHz and encode them with surcode to a 44.1 kHz WAV/DTS. It's possible and there are no problems with it.

But as I previously wrote, I want to do it in the other direction 44.1->48. I hope you'll be able to help with this WAV file i posted.

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Old 7th May 2003, 10:39   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maxiuca
48 kHx dts encoding works fine. In fact I'm writing a small guide about it right now. What do you mean by "PCM Engine mode"? Anyway I use graphedit, DTSSource, File writer, WAV Dest and Intervideo Filters to encode a DTS file to a 6ch WAV file (which has bad header and cannot be read properly in any app, btw.).
wrong! BeSweet eats it correctly, and will also split to 6 mono waves, downsample, normalize.. if you just use the right switches (or easier - use BeSweetGUI).
Quote:
I also wrote a simple program that splits this into 6 mono waves. I'll post it to the forum soon (it's in very alpha stat right now).


Quote:
As for 44.1 dts decoding:
I've been trying to capture the DTS soundtrack from laserdiscs. I wanted to covnert a wav file to .dts file with besplit and than do it the same way as with 48 khz dts. It worked fine with a wav file created by surcode (btw. WAV Dest and File Writer always produces a 48 kHz wave file, well not exaclty 48 kHz but the WAV header is wrong again... but I also solved this problem in my small program) but besplit doesn't work with the wav-dts files captured from a laserdisc.
in "-type dtswav", BeSplit looks for two different types of dtswav, and it probably detected the wrong one.

Last edited by DSPguru; 8th May 2003 at 14:52.
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Old 7th May 2003, 10:45   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
found in ETSI website. version 1.2.1 are really good.
May be DTS decoding will be possible with this document... But it's
too hard for me.
simply search "DTS Coherent Acoustics; Core and Extensions" with google.
With this document, it should be possible to make a DTS frame editor
with Cut/paste features...
a direct link can be found on one of the threads in this forum. i would strongly advise new members to use the search function!

Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
Here my idea:
put a 48Khz DTS stream in WAV with fake WAV header: "44.100Khz Stereo 16 bits". You CAN burn this file !
then, your CDR will contain 14 bit DTS stream at 48khz. And I'm
sure every DTS receiver can handle this because they can handle
regular DTS streams at 48Khz from DVD.
you are partially right, but you forgot that the track is being delivered through spdif traffic at bitrate proportoinal to 44.1khz, and the decoding circuits and the dac's p.l.l. derives its clock from the biphase-mark encoding.

Quote:
Originally posted by Maxiuca
So the result is playing 8% slower than the input.
exactly!
talking about the powerful search function.. those issues had been discussed in here sometime at the end of 2001!

Last edited by DSPguru; 7th May 2003 at 11:18.
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Old 7th May 2003, 11:16   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
You are right. It works. I dunno why and how, but i does work (it works with WinDVD4). But i really don't understand why
wait a minute, how did you convert DTS into DTS/WAV ?
is there any software which can do that ?

Quote:
you are partially right, but you forgot that the track is being delivered through spdif traffic at bitrate proportoinal to 44.1khz, and the decoding circuits and the dac's p.l.l. derives its clock from the biphase-mark encoding.
ok but witch configuration have been tested ?

- standalone DVD player => DTS receiver
or
- PC => DTS receiver via SPDIF
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Old 7th May 2003, 11:24   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
wait a minute, how did you convert DTS into DTS/WAV ?
is there any software which can do that ?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35882
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...4&pagenumber=2

Last edited by DSPguru; 7th May 2003 at 11:28.
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Old 7th May 2003, 11:27   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSPguru
wrong! BeSweet eats it correctly, and will also split to 6 mono waves, downsample, normalize.. if you just use the right switches.
Hi DSPguru, nice to have you in this discussion!
I didn't know that BeSweet will accept this pseudo 6 ch wave, but it's nice to know that. I'll try to figure out how and include it in my guide. I wasted 1 hour for my program But it's nice an handy, maybe will be usefull for someone.

Quote:
Originally posted by DSPguru
in "-type dtswav", BeSplit looks for two different types of dtswav, and it probably detected the wrong one.
and exactly for what types of dtswav does beplit look for? Is there any chance to force it somehow to choose the good one? I posted a link to the dtswav file caputered from the Laserdisc. Maybe you could dl it and analise it and the find the reason why besplit doesn't output it properly?

The laserdisc community will be grateful for your help!

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Last edited by Maxiuca; 7th May 2003 at 14:42.
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Old 7th May 2003, 11:33   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
wait a minute, how did you convert DTS into DTS/WAV ?
is there any software which can do that ?
I didn't have to convert DTS into DTS/WAV cause I have "DTS Demo Disc #2" which was recorded with DTS/PCM track. But you can do it.
I did it several times.

Either using Vobrator (like DSPguru advised) or by graphedit method:

DTSSource->Intervideo Audio decoder (setting: enable SDPIF out) -> WAV Dest -> File Writer.

Press play and you'll get a nice WAV/DTS file.

And it can be then converted with besplit to a regular DTS file and so on

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Old 7th May 2003, 12:33   #16  |  Link
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DSPGuru, I read the thread about DTS editing.
things are not clear.

does VOBRator generate WAV file with 48khz in WAV header ?
if yes, then it is not what I want to test.
if not, then it is sure now: it does not work. definitively.
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Old 7th May 2003, 12:46   #17  |  Link
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Laserdisc DTS format

what is this shit !

I didn't found the DTS sync word in your WAV file.
(FF1F00E8xx07 in .WAV or 7FFE8001 in .DTS)
this is NOT the same format as SureCode DTS.

DSPGuru, you talk about a "second DTS format", what do you mean ?


@Maxiuca
so you put this strange WAV file in my filter and you send it
to Intervideo Audio Decoder and it work fine ? You hear the sound ?
So Intervideo Audio Decoder is able to decode Laserdic DTS format.
fine.
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Old 7th May 2003, 13:24   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
BeSweet eats it correctly, and will also split to 6 mono waves, downsample, normalize.. if you just use the right switches.
you mean BeSweet can decode DTS then downsample, normalize ?
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Old 7th May 2003, 14:35   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
you mean BeSweet can decode DTS then downsample, normalize ?
No, he meant that BeSweet can downsample, normalize (and so on) a 6ch WAVe file, even if the header says it's a 2 channel wave file. You just have to use right switches to tell BeSweet what kind of file is this in real.

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Old 7th May 2003, 14:40   #20  |  Link
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Re: Laserdisc DTS format

Quote:
Originally posted by hypercube
what is this shit !

I didn't found the DTS sync word in your WAV file.
(FF1F00E8xx07 in .WAV or 7FFE8001 in .DTS)
this is NOT the same format as SureCode DTS.

DSPGuru, you talk about a "second DTS format", what do you mean ?

@Maxiuca
so you put this strange WAV file in my filter and you send it
to Intervideo Audio Decoder and it work fine ? You hear the sound ?
So Intervideo Audio Decoder is able to decode Laserdic DTS format.
fine.
Hypercube:

No the file I uploaded is a different file that couldn't be read by your filter, nor by BeSplit. But it worked fine when I recorded it on a CD and played with WinDVD3/4
I have another WAV file that works fine with your filter, but it's 20 mb and I don't have any place to upload it... Maybe someone has some free space on a server?

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