Capture Guide Suggestions

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>As I told you once before: Learn to use paragraphs and Line brakes.

i'm now just following d9's suggestion;that means writing into this silly lil window of forum,and i'm on 800x600 (dunno if that's the source for funny lines...)and frankly by now i don't care!
you're not satisfied with broken lines,nor with longer and unbroken lines....so,read it if you can,skip it if you can't...see if i care...
you're another authority here?
hmm,see above what i mean on authorities....
he who gets interested will succeed in reading my stuff...this way,or the "tornado" way....

>Re vcf2avs: Also don´t forget my little "VCF2AVS"

we know of your lil tool,but it has some weird frame offset,so i prefer bb's version (with an frame accuracy!)
last version (i tested) of yours still had this bug,so i just skipped it........if you have better version(and no frame offsets) than bb,then probably you'll get to be mentioned too....

[BaronVlad]

Hi,

I am glad to see you think this way with Mijo, ivo. We will see what will happen to the posts. I dont know this actually, of course everything will be removed, if anything will be removed, there is no sense to have an answer for a thread that is gone, but as I said, I dont know this actually.

To the PAR...thing: Especially you asked for a clear describtion of this, now you got it. Maybe you should get into contact with Karl to discuss these things with him Come on, everybody knows what is meant, you can also explain it the other way round (704/54*59=768 or 768*54/59=704) Who cares ? I dont.

This explaintation was for PAL only as Karl had not written one for NTSC and I think he wont do this in the future as he told me. I will think about the NTSC thing and add a few words in the future.

@DS: I got the part about vcf2avs from ivo and only edited a bit cause I had to work hard on Karls words, but as it is a sticky in the German board ( ) you are right, we should at least mention it or more. I will go into details and check the proggie out asap.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Come on, everybody knows what is meant, you can also explain it the other way round (704/54*59=768 or 768*54/59=704)

as i said,in calculus it's ok butif you say "PAL PAR is 54/59" then it's wrong statement.....now,this is NOT your fault!
for example;
> 54/59 (non square), so this would be ~ 576 * 4/3 * 54/59 = about 704 including ~ 1 or 2 pixel overscan (black borders). This is nearly the same “Der Karl” calculated (Differences because of divisibility).

when yout turn it around (for the calculus) then it's OK!!!
but spec says clearly;PAL MPEG2(and DV) PAR is 59/54...i have been mentioning NTSC only for explanation and comparison.....
let me put it in even simpler way;
let say that we have 720x576 but with 59/59 or 54/54 or simply 1:1 PAR;
this would mean we have sqaure pixel,and then we can calculate without problems;720/576=1.25
this means we have image that is squeezed in horizontal way....(like we have on monitor;as monitor converts all pixels to square pixels!!!)
if 720x576 with square PAR (1:1) is projected to tv,same thing will happen as on monitor...uncorrect AR of 1,25,but not as visible as on monitor because of tv's overscan...(non the less,it's the wrong AR)

i think this should be rectified;if karl knows english,direct him to my previous post,so he sees it....he should pick it up from there....

to clear thing a bit more (calculus) see how xesdeeni corrects for 4:3 screen in this thread
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...+resolution+is
scroll to his first answer,you'll see where and how he used "3/4" (only for calculus...)
like this;
"However, lines of (horizontal) resolution is defined based on a square screen (called a "screen height"). So our 4:3 television has to remove its aspect ratio, so we get (325 * 3/4)"

this is no big deal (after all it's just PAR...hehe) but 54/59 as a PAL PAR will confuse quite a few!
it's "59/54" for all the reasons i said before.....
(i dunno why would someone like karl swap "x" and "y" axis for PAR,but he did....for calculus YES,for specs NO!)

vlad,do it like this; read my previous post (carefully) and decide for yourself what makes sense,also pay visit to the link i posted there (marjanovic)....direct karl to it too,if still looks to hard or confusing for you,(or no consesnus can be achieved with karl) i suggest you simply leave it out....i'm investing all my knowledge (and then some...hehe) so that the guide has the facts only....54/59 is a fact.....BUT ONLY IN CALCULUS for the rare ones that decide to calculate with PAR's....karl decided,but made a mistake leaving it 54/59 in specs too.....
(contacting karl?,just point him here...i don't know if i can explain it better than that parallel with NTSC's 720x480 on 10/11 PAR.....but if he had some doubts afterwards he can contact me...no problems..)

and guess what;wilbert's confusion with 720 and 768 is directly derived form mistakes such as this (but he did the opposite;
"h=720*59/54 = 786.7 (PAL), "
and if wilbert got confused with it, well,you see what i mean...better to keep it as correct as it can be!)

i would be luckiest man on earth if those scumbags in ccir decided to use sqaure pixels only and not make this havoc for everyone with silly 720 59/54 pixels!(i really mean this is silly!)

on the end,small copy paste from gknot forum sticky on ccir601 etc.:
(from chibi jasmin)
>"Resizing of MPEG-sources compliant to ITU-R BT.601 standard

PAR=pixel aspect ratio – DAR=display aspect ratio

According to ITU-R BT.601:

PAL PAR 117/128 (y/x), x/y=1.094 [128/117] PAR"


see,this is a CORRECT WAY!!!
if u use 54/59 u should always note (y/x) afterwards.....
as 59/54 is (of course) x/y
i belive usual naming convention is "x/y",and in calculus we might need "y/x" (54/59) so it's best to note it ALWAYS in every calculus,otherwise such "bugs" will arise...


cheers

/ivo

[Darksoul71]

@Vlad:

@DS: I got the part about vcf2avs from ivo and only edited a bit cause I had to work hard on Karls words, but as it is a sticky in the German board ( ) you are right, we should at least mention it or more. I will go into details and check the proggie out asap.

It´s ok. I´m not nitpicking. I just wanted to point out. It´s funny that bb developed a tool with nearly the same functionality (even the same name) during the same time I did. IMHO "my" VCF2AVS has some good functionalities for the "analogue capture guys" like batch splitting or batch audio conversions. This really helps for people that archive a lot of movies.

@Ivo:
>you're another authority here?
Nope, I just can´t stand some guys bashing on each other in the forum. I always had some problems with "authorithies". So I shurely won´t be an authority......

we know of your lil tool,but it has some weird frame offset,so i prefer bb's version (with an frame accuracy!)
last version (i tested) of yours still had this bug,so i just skipped it........if you have better version(and no frame offsets) than bb,then probably you'll get to be mentioned too....

I dunno which version you´ve tested but I think that I fixed this bug something like 4 versions ago...
bb was so kind to point out. I subtracted 1 frames because I thought that the first frame in AVISynth was Frame 0.

BTW: "probably you'll get to be mentioned too...." ????
I don´t need "to be mentioned too...".
FYT: I´ve developed "my VCF2AVS" for my personal needings and shared it with the other peoples.

@other: Sorry if this is totaly OT but I couldn´t stand...

-D$

[BaronVlad]

Hi,

I edited ivos and Mijos postings, it is ok for Mijo as he said and I think it is also ok for ivo, if not, this is not my problem anymore, cause I wanted you (ivo) to edit it. You did not, so everything is gone, also some suggestions you made about filtering of porn, but you had the chance to save this.

Now let us please continue with the guide or some rules may follow.

@ivo: I got your point, but as I told you, you can see it the other way round and then it is correct. I know that Karl looked into this thread, I will ask him about 54/59 <-> 59/54, we will see, what he wants to admit.

Something else:

>you're another authority here?
DS is right, your postings are very hard to read, I am glad to see you not continuing in using "tornado style" But please try to use also a SHORT describtion of your thoughts. And also have a look at what you are saying. What you said above is very near to 4). As I said I dont want to see this strike, but you will not get another warning.


@DS: bb and you should have developed this tool together, this would have been less work for both of you.


But dont be afraid, I know what you meant, I will have a look asap as I promised.

[Wilbert]

A short update:

The AviSynth part is done, only the vcf2avs has to be included. I'm still waiting for Steve to share the updated version.

About GKnot: I installed v0.28 + beta 3. I thought that would be cool, since you can also encode to XviD using this version. However when opening a huffyuv-avi (yuy2), I don't see the clip in the preview (which is necessary for cutting parts of the clip). I will post in the Gknot forum for this. In the mean time, can someone check whether this problem is also present in v0.27?

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>I got your point, but as I told you, you can see it the other way round and then it is correct.

true,small "(x/y)" or "(y/x)" after the "59/54" or "54/59" (respectively..hehe) will do....

>But please try to use also a SHORT describtion of your thoughts

and that's no lie that i tend to go on and on and on...(and on..heh)..probably out of fear that someone might not understand it all (so i put more (slightly different) explanations of the same thing....) and i really don't know if one can be clear enough on the PAR...heh...

luckily,99% of the time there's no PAR speak....
(but non the less,i'm no poet to condense all i think in smallest package; i prefer novels!.....hehe)



btw. vlad have you uploaded newest version somewhere so i can get the html only?if not,please send it via-email or so (PM?).....

thanks...

[Belgabor]

Originally posted by Darksoul71
@BaronVlad:
Re vcf2avs: Also don´t forget my little "VCF2AVS"
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...hlight=VCF2AVS

For completeness sake you might want to mention that VDubMod basically also supports this

The Script Editor can:
- Import the curret frame
- Import the selection
- Import the selection as trim statement
- Import the complete select/del editting as aligned splice of Trim statements

Cheers
Belgabor

[Darksoul71]

@Belgabor:

For completeness sake you might want to mention that VDubMod basically also supports this

Oops, forgive me

Honestly I haven´t had the time to test VDubMod. It´s great to see a combination of VDub and AVISynth.

-D$

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

bb's vcf2avs;
AviSource("D:\Video\rawstuff\seve-obrve-atv2000capture_1_01.avi")
Trim(0,36)+Trim(57,206)+Trim(235,435)+Trim(450,1000)+Trim(1257,2406)+Trim(2758,3431)

d$'s vcf2avs;
AVISource("D:\Video\rawstuff\seve-obrve-atv2000capture_1_01.avi")
Trim(0,36)+Trim(57,206)+Trim(235,435)+Trim(450,1000)+Trim(1257,2406)+Trim(2758,3431)

(source vcf;
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(0,37);
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(57,150);
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(235,201);
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(450,551);
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(1257,1150);
VirtualDub.subset.AddRange(2758,674); )

also;still d$ version cannot fit 800x600 desktop properly (nor it can be resized to fit),d$ version has quite a few extras (making it almost 1MB dload,bb's version is 9KB(!)dload...)

didn't tried vdubmod,but i would have the need to copy-paste trimming stuff anyway,as my avs script is...well,it's 9KB big,need i say more...it also has some avs ONLY plugins,etc.

so i'll stay on bb's version with cropping done (800x600,remember..cannot crop 768x576 with VDub...)by TmpgEnc,as it downsizes the cropping window nicely,so i only enter the data to my existing script..... i rarely crop anyhow....there are not so much 16/9 movies aired here.....

[Darksoul71]

@^^-+I4004+-^^:
Thanks for your test and your comment.

also;still d$ version cannot fit 800x600 desktop properly (nor it can be resized to fit),d$ version has quite a few extras (making it almost 1MB dload,bb's version is 9KB(!)dload...)

I know this. My version was "optimized" for >=1024x576 as I´m running this res. The programm itself is not resizeable because this would make it neccessary to resize all components. Another solution would be using tabs (like GKnot), but I dislike this.

Regarding size: I´ve kept down the zip size as far as I could. There are various plugins and tools includes that make the package that "big" but honestly 1 MB isn´t a big deal. I´m currently runnning 56k dial-up for my www connection and 1 MB takes only a few minutes.

-D$

[killingspree]

ok here i am back again
i don't know if i can but i'll try to include every changes bvlad/tim sent to me tonight and bring another version (1.4) online ... but i can't promise a thing. wouldn't be the first time i fall asleep infornt of my comp. (less than 10 hours sleep in the last 5 days)

steVe
PS: damn this thread seems to have gotten pretty ugly at one point. keep it nice and clean guys (;

edit (new): ok i've uploaded the new/modified version of the guide (1.4) hope i didn't miss anything.
link: http://members.tripod.de/stefanstrobl/download.htm
nur changelog: http://members.tripod.de/stefanstrobl/changelog.txt

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Thanks for your test and your comment.

no problem...as i said,i'll be the first to admit when i'm wrong...
i hope you have "segmentedavisource" too.(didn't had the time to test it)..ok,i'll take your word for it...hehe

>but honestly 1 MB isn´t a big deal

true,1MB is not much and there are many extras there,as i said....

resolution?yeah,well if the cancer research proggie won't let me help-in because of simillar thing,you can see others see only their desktop as a reference,so it's not like you're the only....
i like progs that are ment for all resolutions.....btw. have i mentioned i use large fonts too...hehe(no,not blind,but just like to get away from the screen a bit..)

but anyhow,even not all functions are visible,i can see the converting part (obviously.... as i tested it)

>damn this thread seems to have gotten pretty ugly at one point

i have modified the "suspicious" parts of another post....now,some of vlad's and mijo's responses are left hanging in thin air,but i have already said that the "guideforge" one needs erasing (now i did editing,only to leave part on lo-res filtering) too........

snug a peek at newest version,looking good......

@vlad ; THANKS for including my thoughts there too....
and SORRY for too much bitchin'........

(btw. those translator comments come in handy too!)

[BaronVlad]

Thanks all !

I dont have much time this mornig, I will go into details, I hope, I will get the time this evening

Special @ivo !

[Belgabor]

Originally posted by Darksoul71
@Belgabor:

Oops, forgive me

Honestly I haven´t had the time to test VDubMod. It´s great to see a combination of VDub and AVISynth.

Sorry, I didnt mean you should have mentined D$, just to put it into the guide (for completeness sake )

So no reason for needing forgiveness

[Darksoul71]

@Belgabor:
>So no reason for needing forgiveness
But I´m really sorry that I haven´t even touched VDubMod

-D$

[BaronVlad]

Hi,

I read through the guide and did some minor bugfixes that I sent to steVe, also Darksouls program and the script editor of VDubMod will be mentioned.

Maybe someone could help Wilbert with the GKnot setup ? I cannot, cause I lent the cables to a friend of mine and cannot do any caps this time. Maybe it is just because Wilbert hasnt deleted the last small Huffyuv file before loading into GKnot ???

Regarding the ugly PAR and NTSC thing: I will contact Karl.

Now I have to leave and I have the bad feeling that I forgot something very important. Please remind me, if this is true.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Maybe someone could help Wilbert with the GKnot setup ? I cannot, cause I lent the cables to a friend of mine and cannot do any caps this time. Maybe it is just because Wilbert hasnt deleted the last small Huffyuv file before loading into GKnot ???


my avs205 will crash on last frame with segmented mjpeg's too ie. not that huff is only affected
(all multisegmented VDUb produced files have this last empty 12kb file..)
if i got (with the VDub editing) on the last frame and try to go back,it crashes avs....
(dunno what GK does on opening of the file...)

but usually the last frame doesn't stay there (in the avs script) at all (it's trimmed before the encoding) so it doesn't crash.....but even in event of crash (on the end of the encoding),the rest of the file is usefull....

i believe this bug (last empty segment crash) was corrected in recent avs release...

those are my experiences on last segment empty issue...

[Wilbert]

Maybe someone could help Wilbert with the GKnot setup ? I cannot, cause I lent the cables to a friend of mine and cannot do any caps this time. Maybe it is just because Wilbert hasnt deleted the last small Huffyuv file before loading into GKnot ???

That's not the problem I have, cause I didn't use segments. The problem is that the preview (of gknot 0.28) doesn't show anything when loading a huffyuv.

Tomorrow, I will put up a new version including Steve's changes.

However I do have a general question about gknot (relating to capping of course):
I would like to know some reasons why people would use gknot for processing captures.

0) delete commercials => vdubmod + script editor

1) For deinterlacing (PAL), the (often) correct deinterlace option isn't even there. Better to do it manually with SeperateFields, to see how to deinterlace. For NTSC it is probably usefull.

2) For resizing. Capping in 7XXx576 => 640 x 480 (or scalings) for XviD. I always thought that 720x576 and 704x576 had to be resized differently. But Ivo corrected me, I hope I understand it now. So resizing is also trivial.

3) Color correction => vdubmod need with script editor

So, the only reason I can think of to use gknot is the compressibility test. But if this is the only reason, one could make the script (without gknot). Open the avi in gknot, and replace default gknot.avs with the self made gknot.

Any opinions?

[BaronVlad]

Hi Wilbert,

on my system I have GKnot 0.28 beta 5, Avisynth 2.51 beta (March, 12th) and Huffyuv v2.121 - CCESP Patch v0.2.2, I encoded a short clip to Huffyuv since I cant cap now but had no probs with loading in GKnot and getting a preview, maybe your files are avis larger than 2 GB ? There may be such a problem ?

Regarding your thoughts about GKnot:



You are somehow right, Wilbert, but there may be some people that are not able to write an Avisynth script on their own, and those can use GKnot for this. After this load this script with VDub(Mod) and edit something, load again...

I often do it this way, ok with DVDs, but I think some people do this with Captures also.

So you can learn to combine editing your caps with Avisynth scripting, GKnot and VDub...

[Wilbert]

but had no probs with loading in GKnot and getting a preview

Weird, can you try the following huffyuv (three frames):

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/huffyuv4.avi

You are somehow right, Wilbert, but there may be some people that are not able to write an Avisynth script on their own, and those can use GKnot for this.

As you notice, that works great for dvd's. But not for captures. I will see what I can do.

[BaronVlad]

3 frames = 850 KB...

Wow, that is really what we call lossless compression.

I had no problem with GKnot, I could load the clip and got a preview, my script:

avisource("c:\huffyuv4.avi")

Which versions of programs and codec did you install ?

IMO the GKnot part should be a simple way how to do first steps with Avisynth, you can keep this part very short and link to doom9`s DVD Guides and your Avisynth part to reduce redundant words.

Thanks for your help again

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

i agree completely with wilbert on GK part (we tend to agree
more and more lately...heh)...not real use for it on .avi's,but i agree with wilbert too (isn't that nice too..heeh) as if it can be sorted out to work for layman then it should be easier for him...right?GK should make for few steps less then we guys normally do...correct?
(ie. if it'll make people more aware of avs...as i said...)

for a man that likes to learn more ; VDub,Ndub,avisynth should make him bussy for a while...

another one for wilbert;
i belive you didn't included crop.addborders trick
(i believe i didn't saw it in,there's stuff on removing junk on top and bottom,and indeed letterbox is good enough for that,but it can be junk on the sides too.......i will apologize if i made you remove this part if it was present before...as it happens i believe it would be best to leave "letterbox" for top/bottom,and make an addition "Removing garbage from the sides (left/right) of the clip")?

i have used it yesterday with decent results;
[code]
#removes the junk,adds black borders,centers the image.....
#addblackborders for 16 compatibility[some nasty results on 572x416 #divx]
#for processing in yuy2 left and right must be even
#syntax:AddBorders(clip, int left, int top, int right, int bottom)
Crop(16,0,556,420).AddBorders(10,6,10,6)
#above is good for 7xx x 576->576x432 poor VHS as am using now for #TLN1..

( as junk on the sides is eating bitrate too...non 16 solid colors are not liked by the mpeg codecs,but i think they like junk on that borders even less!hehe )

wilbert,glad to see you had time to test that all 7xx resolutions have same amount of image inside....as i did here
http://i4004.0catch.com/704_720_768%20line.htm
(if someone missed it..heh)

/ivo

[killingspree]

Originally posted by Wilbert

Tomorrow, I will put up a new version including Steve's changes.

please make sure you really use the latest version of the guide... i am doing some changes atm and will upload it a bit later half an hour or so...

i will of course post here as soon as the new version is 'online'

steVe

[killingspree]

ok version 1.5 is up... (:

link: http://members.tripod.de/stefanstrobl/download.htm
changelog only: http://members.tripod.de/stefanstrobl/changelog.txt

please somebody read through the added deinterlacing and resizing part in the vdub post processing page. thanks

@Wilbert:
a) would you mind if i cropped / resized you avisynth screenshots a bit to improve loading times?
b)please check the changelog... i've added something to your part (of course only because Bvlad told me to )

steVe

[kempodragon]

I found a workaround for getting a preview of a Huffyuv file. Make a simple avs file using the AviSource () command and open the avs file in Gknot. Worked perfectly.

Whoops!! Someone already beat me to it. Shows what happens when you work third and are just getting up.

[Ookami]

A few suggestions:

- explaining overscan etc. ("Why do I see the mike on the PC monitor and not on the TV?" and "Help! I see not only headswitching, but even garbage on ________ !" ), maybe add it to the headswitching part
- (VD postprocessing) adding a link that explains the differences of the various res. filters (for those who want to read into it)
- on the additional NR filters add a bit more or at least a link to neuron2 site (as that's advanced stuff anyhow)
- add a few more reference links in the Appendix

Er, had more ideas... Sigh, getting old.

Nice work, y'all!

[Wilbert]

3 frames = 850 KB...

Wow, that is really what we call lossless compression.

I had no problem with GKnot, I could load the clip and got a preview, my script:

avisource("c:\huffyuv4.avi")

Which versions of programs and codec did you install ?

Btw, you loaded the avi directly (without a script). Weird.

Installed programs/codecs:
- RipPack 0.28 beta6
- GKnot 0.28 beta5
- not the codec pack
- huffyuv v2.1.1 (http://math.berkeley.edu/~benrg/huffyuv.html, down atm)
- Windows 2000 SP2

Could you sent me the following file: avifil32.dll (w.j.dijkhof@tue.nl). Len0x said that this file is responsible for loading the huffyuv.

another one for wilbert;
i belive you didn't included crop.addborders trick
(i believe i didn't saw it in,there's stuff on removing junk on top and bottom,and indeed letterbox is good enough for that,but it can be junk on the sides too.......i will apologize if i made you remove this part if it was present before...as it happens i believe it would be best to leave "letterbox" for top/bottom,and make an addition "Removing garbage from the sides (left/right) of the clip")?

I removed the crop.addborders, and replaced it by letterbox. Btw, letterbox can also be applied to the left/right side of the clip. Will make a remark about it ...

please somebody read through the added deinterlacing and resizing part in the vdub post processing page. thanks

@Wilbert:
a) would you mind if i cropped / resized you avisynth screenshots a bit to improve loading times?
b)please check the changelog... i've added something to your part (of course only because Bvlad told me to )

Sure, no problem. I will look at the changelog (and download 1.5).

I found a workaround for getting a preview of a Huffyuv file. Make a simple avs file using the AviSource() command and open the avs file in Gknot. Worked perfectly.

So, you also couldn't load it directly? I will try this.

[BaronVlad]

I didnt load the avi directly, I used a script to load it, but in the script there is only "avisource()", the rest like cropping, resize... should be done with GKnot, can you show us your script ?

Mail is sent.

[Wilbert]

the rest like cropping, resize... should be done with GKnot, can you show us your script ?

I will post the script on friday. Btw, letterboxing (cropping is not necessaary) can't be done in GKnot. Resizing analog caps of 720x576 is also not possible, because it is always resized to 640x464 (and it has to be 640x480). That's what I meant with GKnot is not suited for this job Since I'm away tomorrow, I will post a new version on friday.

[TheWEF]

i did not read all of this long thread.
but i read PAR 54/59 and 11/10 in a number of posts and just want to mention (once more...) that these numbers are not correct.

PAL PAR is 128/117
NTSC PAR is 72/79

check out A Quick Guide to Digital Video Resolution and Aspect Ratio Conversions and
this thread.
btw.: you find all the correct PARs for commonly used capture resolutions if you press "select" in gknots PAR group box in the resolution tab.

this is just a hint. i'm tired of discussing this and i will not in this thread.

wef.

[Wilbert]

i did not read all of this long thread. but i read PAR 54/59 and 11/10 in a number of posts and just want to mention (once more...) that these numbers are not correct.

PAL PAR is 128/117
NTSC PAR is 72/79

I'm aware of this.

btw.: you find all the correct PARs for commonly used capture resolutions if you press "select" in gknots PAR group box in the resolution tab.

I do have a question about this though. Recently Ivo thaught me that 720x576 needs to be resized to 640x480 (and not 640x464), note we are talking about analog capturing (no dv or dvd). Can I select that in GKnot somewhere?

this is just a hint. i'm tired of discussing this and i will not in this thread.

Someone else?

[Wilbert]

I put up a new version.

- images240403.zip: only new pictures (of GKnot) [Steve, can you include those in your images v1.5 zipfile]
- htmlfiles240403.zip

changelog:

1.6 changes by Wilbert (24/04)
- changed processing_avisynth.html
- switched sections 4.2 and 4.3
- added links to AviSynth filters
- added 4.2.1: Processing interlaced video
- added 4.2.2: Using multiple captures to reduce noise
- changed the trimming in AviSynth part. Easiest is to do it with the script editor, therefor only links to vcf2avs
- added processing_gkont.html
- added gknot1.jpg-gknot7.jpg
- changed compression.html (switched audio and video)

I hope you like the GKnot part, of course other suggestions are welcome. If you want to use GKnot differently for this, please add a detailed proposal for this.

I didn't have the energy to read the rest. I suggest that we use the weekend to decide what needs to be added/changed/improved.

links:
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijk...iles240403.zip
http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijk...ages240403.zip

[TheWEF]

Originally posted by Wilbert
Recently Ivo thaught me that 720x576 needs to be resized to 640x480 (and not 640x464), note we are talking about analog capturing (no dv or dvd).

don't trust him!
analog or digital - there is no difference.
just use gknot:

input res: 720*576
input par: select 128/117 (720*576)
H-Moldul: 1
horizontal res: 640
-> vertical res: 468 - that would be exact, but as you know, the codecs don't like that, so...

H-Moldul: 16
horizontal res: 640
-> vertical res: 464

you could also crop 8 pixels off each side to get real 4/3:

704*576 -> 640*480

wef.

[Wilbert]

don't trust him!
analog or digital - there is no difference.
just use gknot:

First, I know how to do the calculations, like you showed. Second there must be a difference between analog and digital. Ivo showed me (and of course I checked that), that capping at 768x576, 720x576 and 704x576 results in the same image. It is not the case that 704x576 is a cropped version of 720x576, but it is a scaled version. This implies that both must be resized to the same 4:3 resolution (640x480).

The pics (provided by Ivo) are given here:

wilbert,glad to see you had time to test that all 7xx resolutions have same amount of image inside....as i did here http://i4004.0catch.com/704_720_768%20line.htm
(if someone missed it..heh)

But of course, you can also check it yourself.

[killingspree]

Originally posted by Wilbert
I put up a new version.

- images240403.zip: only new pictures (of GKnot) [Steve, can you include those in your images v1.5 zipfile]

will do that right away...

steVe

[TheWEF]

Originally posted by Wilbert
This implies that both must be resized to the same 4:3 resolution (640x480).

or 640x464 or something else...
this just implies that obviously you have to find out the correct capture resolution first, everything else is guessing.

wef.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Recently Ivo thaught me that 720x576 needs to be resized to 640x480 (and not 640x464),

now,i never said explicitly what input res. to resize to what output resolution,i have only showed you all horizontal sizes have complete image (ie. capture cards are not doing any cropping)
but ,hell,wilbert,you said it my friend,and you're right and it makes sense!!
indeed,7xx x 576 (xx being 04,20,68) NEEDS to be resized to 640x480 to have perfect AR!
i'm suggesting 768 as preffered only because it has more data,more quality than less resolutions!
704,720 or 768 resized to 640x480,you should end up with EXACTLY the same image (AR wise)....curently i don't have time to do that test,but i will (or if wilbert has more time....i have to capture "all the presidents man" in few moments....)

one should not forget one truth too;pixels on monitor are square(for 4:3 resolutions),so no need to take unsqaure pixels in account and resize as such they will be watched on devices that support unsqaure pixels!
(as 640x464 is step in that direction;not real need for such resizing!)

another reason why i don't like GK?
it first crops and then resizes (to have some spped up in processing)
i forst resize,then crop (to have perfect AR!)
GK will typically make some roundings (to "16") and i don't like it!this makes some AR offset,so i FIRST resize to 4:3 resolution,and then crop...in fact i never crop in that tsense...i add borders to keep mpeg codec happy...(as i have tried all sorts of things...funny resolutions....believe me,codec doen't like "2" or "4" resolutions...especially in horizontal way!)

but yet another thought;how do standalones(divx players) "see" PAR of divx->if they do same as PC (always square) there are no worries even in long term usage!

cheers
/ivo

ps. and again,wilbert thanks for support..........
and
ps2.@wef_sorry for misunderstanding on PAR's(in gk forum)

[TheWEF]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
ps2.@wef_sorry for misunderstanding on PAR's(in gk forum)

that's ok, but anyway...

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
[B]indeed,7xx x 576 (xx being 04,20,68) NEEDS to be resized to 640x480 to have perfect AR! [B]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
so no need to take unsqaure pixels in account and resize as such they will be watched on devices that support unsqaure pixels!
(as 640x464 is step in that direction;not real need for such resizing!)

...what you are saying is still not true.
but i can't explain it any better than in the sticky in the gknot forum, or the perfect explanations in all the links i provided.

wef.

[TheWEF]

Originally posted by Wilbert
This implies that both must be resized to the same 4:3 resolution (640x480).

check out this:
http://www.dynalink.com.au/files/pdf...pecs_sheet.pdf

these capture devices can do internal cropping, resizing, scaling,...
so it's impossible to say what is correct without knowing how the drivers and capture software are programming and using the chips internal functions.

i guess you have to contact haupauge to really find out. or capture movies with round objects (balls) in it...


wef.