Whole PAL <-> NTSC DVD Conversion

Xesdeeni · 1st April 2003, 19:53

I'm not very educated on all the ins and outs of IFO and VOB files, so maybe you guys can help me out.

I want to duplicate an entire DVD of one standard (say PAL) in another standard (say NTSC), but I don't want to completely re-author it. I'm hoping that IFOEdit provides enough functionality that I can do this, but I haven't had much luck so far.

PLEASE NOTE: I have no problem converting the video itself, that's not the issue (http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni200...rdsConversion/).

The questions I have are:

1. For the VOBs containing menus, what is the best way to extract all the frames, and reconstruct equivalent VOBs with the resized menus? DVD2AVI doesn't seem to always get all the frames from this type of VOB. When I extract them manually and creating a standard MPEG file with the menu frames as the sequence of frames, I don't see how I can recreate a VOB similar to the one I started with.

2. For the buttons in the menus, where are the coordinates located, and how can I edit them to adjust the top and bottom for the change in resolution?

3. Also for the buttons in the menus, where are the masks located, and how can I edit them to adjust their height for the change in resolution?

4. Is there a way to convert the timecodes from one standard to another (both with and without timescaling) for the chapter points, etc.? Can these even be modified in IFOEdit (I couldn't see how)?

5. What other things have to be converted when altering frame rate, resolution, and potentially running time?

Xesdeeni

Speeder · 3rd May 2003, 23:46

I also got a PAL > NTSC menu question

vtwin0001 · 17th September 2003, 19:45

same thing here....

I succesfully transcoded a PAL DVD to a NTSC DVD, the whole thing, but the menus were bad... so I am also searching for a way to make them work; I can't find anywhere within the site the way to author the menus (unless its recreating, but theres no advice on how to do that)

Richk50 · 23rd September 2003, 18:46

Here also. About a third of my movies are PAL. Would love an easy automatic way of converting. I've read about several "easy" methods and come to the conclusion, that what is easy to a lot of people on this forum, is very difficult for me.

vtwin0001 · 23rd September 2003, 20:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Richk50
Here also. About a third of my movies are PAL. Would love an easy automatic way of converting. I've read about several "easy" methods and come to the conclusion, that what is easy to a lot of people on this forum, is very difficult for me.

Yeah, besides, rebuilding a menu is not an easy task..... (perhaps with DVD-Lab, but some stuff in that app doesn't work nicely

A one click solution would be very nice, this 1-click solution should do this:

Demux each VOB to get the m2v, the audio files and the subpictures

Convert from PAL to NTSC (Audio and Video), de-interlace video, fix audio and convert subpictures to NTSC along with screen sizes (if applies)

Remap the whole menus now with the -4% acceleration caused by PAL and the screen size changed; along with the update of the ifos .

Mux everything back

The resulting project can be then taken to a DVD2One (or DVDShrink) for compressing, or create an ISO of the project and ReAuthor to Compress with ReAuthorist (The big 3)

Well.... this is only my opinion

Zeul · 24th September 2003, 16:38

don't forget you need to transfer all the subpicture highlight and button tables (and adjust them) into the new authored vob file, from the original. Otherwise you subpics won't show. Change all your LBA timimgs and some SCR times This is what I have had to do in NuMenu4u.

It is something I am working on at the moment - format conversion.

vtwin0001 · 24th September 2003, 19:48

great!

is that going to be like a 1-click app or is it an addition for NuMenu4u??

Zeul · 25th September 2003, 09:28

the idea will be under global options you just select/deselect format conversion - simple as that.

Zeul

callstreet · 25th September 2003, 18:35

My good old Apex player - does that count as a solution? It supports NTSC and PAL TV's as well.

vtwin0001 · 25th September 2003, 19:24

I also have a DVD Player that reads all-region dvds and does the NTSC<->PAL conversion by itself, however, what I want I to be able to read all my PAL DVD on NTSC DVD players, and not taking that 'special hardware' with me everywhere I go.

vtwin0001 · 7th October 2003, 00:03

Thanks to 2COOL i was able to recreate a DVD and convert it from PAL to NTSC (I am still muxing, but I am pretty sure it will work)

I created the whole thing in DVD Lab (reauthored the DVD), and converted all the videos (and audio) in MainConcept MPEG

The DVD I did was The Royle Family PAL R2, and was converted to NTSC, and is just like the original, with Warning and all (just for the fun of it)

You can extract all the menus with DVD Decrypter, just select the File Option, then in settings, choose the file tab and select by VOB ID.

Select the VOBs that have the menus (which you can find easily by dragging and dropping the VOBs into PowerDVD), most of the time the vobs that have the menus are:
video_ts.vob
vts_01_0.vob
vts_0x_0.vob

If for some strange reason, you cannot get that menu (which will then has to be demuxed on vobedit and afterwards converted to NTSC IF its an animated menu), use an app that can read VOBs and edit them, like MPEG VCR, and save the pictures as BMPs and import them on DVD Lab as Backgrounds.

If you want to add Subtitles, you'll need to use the reathorist solution and then on scenarist import the converted subtitles (to NTSC) and put them on the movie, also if you want to add more audio tracks, you should do the same.

Now.... how can I deinterlace the video? (which is the only thing Im missing)

LakersFan · 10th October 2003, 01:55

Quote:

Originally posted by vtwin0001
If for some strange reason, you cannot get that menu (which will then has to be demuxed on vobedit and afterwards converted to NTSC IF its an animated menu), use an app that can read VOBs and edit them, like MPEG VCR, and save the pictures as BMPs and import them on DVD Lab as Backgrounds.

Please explain this with a little more detail... I stripped my _0.vob files by VobID with DVD Decrypter. From that point, do you reencode each vob to NTSC? If so, then aren't the buttons screwed up? And how do I put it back together (author)?

Also, what did you mean by saying, "If for some strange reason, you cannot get that menu (which will then has to be demuxed on vobedit and afterwards converted to NTSC IF its an animated menu)"?

Thank you,
LakersFan

vtwin0001 · 10th October 2003, 07:27

Ok, here I go:

I am talking about REDO the whole DVD, so forget about the current VOB formation. You'll do the whole thing again.

1) Decrypt by CELL ID the VOBS that have menus on it.
- if the menus are NOT animated, then most surely, you won't be able to import them directly to DVD Lab, so you most drag that cell (file containing the menu) and drop it on Mpeg VCR and press the Picture button, then, when prompted to save it as, save it as a BMP and you are done. Import the BMP into DVD Lab under the Backgrounds tab. You won't need to resize nor do anything more. If theres background music on it, put it, you wont need to change it, since the BMP is not animated, it wont need synching.
- if menus ARE animated, then you should convert them to NTSC (I use Main Concept MPEG Encoder, everything is very straight forward and accepts VOBs, the Audio comes out synched to the Video, so you won't need to synch it from somewhere else; the downside is that AC3 files are converted to MPEG Stereo, if the AC3 source file is Stereo, the you can convert it back to AC3 later). After you have done that, go ahead and import the video and audio into DVD Lab and put them into a Menu.
----Please remember to choose in the Stream for MpegEncoder in -Video and Audio-, so you'll get the video in one file and the audio in another one (so you can convert this Audio into AC3 afterwards)

2) Decrypt the other videos included on the DVD remembering to change to BY File (not Cell ID).
- Take all the resulting videos and convert them to NTSC with Main Concept MPEG Encoder.

3) Here come the best part:
- Put every NTSC file and Audio into DVD Lab and recreate the whole dvd (in the connections window).
- Create the navigation with the buttons and all (you create the buttons, I used small rectangles and underlines, to make the links)
- Mux
- Enjoy!!!!

P.S. Now we need to deinterlace the video, I dont know how to do that on MPEG Encoder, if you know how to do that, please tell me.

EDIT: If you know how to change a PAL AC3 to NTSC please tell me too!!! (maybe there's a way to change this 5.1 AC3 into 6 channels WAV and then convert these WAVs to NTSC and then convert the resulting 6 WAVS into 1 5.1AC3 file).

LakersFan · 11th October 2003, 03:51

Thanks for the help, vtwin0001.

I'll try it when I get a chance. I haven't used DVD Lab before, but I'll mess around with it and see what I can come up with. Maybe I'll pick your brain when I start. Do you know a guide for DVD Lab? I couldn't find one on Doom9's section.

In regards to your other questions,

Quote:

P.S. Now we need to deinterlace the video, I dont know how to do that on MPEG Encoder, if you know how to do that, please tell me.

There is a very interesting thread on dvdrhelp.com which talks about the whole PAL to NTSC conversion. It includes deinterlacing. Maybe that will be able to help you, as I haven't tried it yet. Here's the thread: http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

Quote:

If you know how to change a PAL AC3 to NTSC please tell me too!!! (maybe there's a way to change this 5.1 AC3 into 6 channels WAV and then convert these WAVs to NTSC and then convert the resulting 6 WAVS into 1 5.1AC3 file).

For that, I use AC3Machine (v0.41) and the latest beta version of BeSweet (v1.5b22).
1. Open up AC3Machine.
2. Under locations, click on the yellow line to point to your BeSweet.exe, your PAL AC3, and the location for the resulting NTSC AC3.
3. No checkmarks under Azid Downmix Levels and SSRC Options.
4. Under Overall Output Configuration check Channels Mode and place it 5.1. Dynamic Compression and Gain are unchecked. Put a check under Auto Find Maximum Gain.
5. Check Use Dialog Normalization Reduction. Leave Control Rear-Channel Filtering unchecked.
6. If there is a delay in your audio, you can enter it in the Set Delay to ... section.
7. MOST IMPORTANTLY, check the Change Frame rate from button and add 25000 to 23976.
8. For bitrate, I check 448 or 382, depending if you want to down sample.
9. Leave everything else the way it is, then click the Give Me Ac3! button.

It'll take a little while, so be patient.

Good luck, let me know if you need anything.
-LF

vtwin0001 · 24th November 2003, 01:38

Well.... I actually came with a different solution, which involves a lot of work, however the results are quite impressive; you will come out with a DVD that is 99% identical to the original, the only thing is, is that the DVD is NTSC instead of PAL.

Here's the deal:

Use DIF4U (DoItFast4U)and on the options menu add the convesrion strings for it on the FOOTER , at the very end

bilinearresize(720,480)
convertfps(29.97*2)
assumeframebased()
separatefields()
selectevery(4,0,3)
weave()

Let DIF4U work and all, then import manually to Scenarist; for the chapters use the text file that DVDDecrypter outputs for Scenarist (make sure its checked in the Settings menus of this program)

For the menus, use that system and convert them using DVDLab or DVDMenuStudio, the subpictures of the menus can be extracted with subripper and then converted (to 720*480) with DVDMenus Studio or DVDLab (using this method you'll have to re-extract the menus again using the good old VOBEdit method)

Import the menus to Scenarist and you're done, please note this is a very difficult task to do, but is the best way to do it.

For the subtitles use subripper, there are some guides here around that might help

Have fun!

1st April 2003, 19:53	#1 \| Link
Xesdeeni Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 467	Whole PAL <-> NTSC DVD Conversion I'm not very educated on all the ins and outs of IFO and VOB files, so maybe you guys can help me out. I want to duplicate an entire DVD of one standard (say PAL) in another standard (say NTSC), but I don't want to completely re-author it. I'm hoping that IFOEdit provides enough functionality that I can do this, but I haven't had much luck so far. PLEASE NOTE: I have no problem converting the video itself, that's not the issue (http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni200...rdsConversion/). The questions I have are: 1. For the VOBs containing menus, what is the best way to extract all the frames, and reconstruct equivalent VOBs with the resized menus? DVD2AVI doesn't seem to always get all the frames from this type of VOB. When I extract them manually and creating a standard MPEG file with the menu frames as the sequence of frames, I don't see how I can recreate a VOB similar to the one I started with. 2. For the buttons in the menus, where are the coordinates located, and how can I edit them to adjust the top and bottom for the change in resolution? 3. Also for the buttons in the menus, where are the masks located, and how can I edit them to adjust their height for the change in resolution? 4. Is there a way to convert the timecodes from one standard to another (both with and without timescaling) for the chapter points, etc.? Can these even be modified in IFOEdit (I couldn't see how)? 5. What other things have to be converted when altering frame rate, resolution, and potentially running time? Xesdeeni

7th October 2003, 00:03	#11 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	Finally did it!!!! Thanks to 2COOL i was able to recreate a DVD and convert it from PAL to NTSC (I am still muxing, but I am pretty sure it will work) I created the whole thing in DVD Lab (reauthored the DVD), and converted all the videos (and audio) in MainConcept MPEG The DVD I did was The Royle Family PAL R2, and was converted to NTSC, and is just like the original, with Warning and all (just for the fun of it) You can extract all the menus with DVD Decrypter, just select the File Option, then in settings, choose the file tab and select by VOB ID. Select the VOBs that have the menus (which you can find easily by dragging and dropping the VOBs into PowerDVD), most of the time the vobs that have the menus are: video_ts.vob vts_01_0.vob vts_0x_0.vob If for some strange reason, you cannot get that menu (which will then has to be demuxed on vobedit and afterwards converted to NTSC IF its an animated menu), use an app that can read VOBs and edit them, like MPEG VCR, and save the pictures as BMPs and import them on DVD Lab as Backgrounds. If you want to add Subtitles, you'll need to use the reathorist solution and then on scenarist import the converted subtitles (to NTSC) and put them on the movie, also if you want to add more audio tracks, you should do the same. Now.... how can I deinterlace the video? (which is the only thing Im missing)

10th October 2003, 07:27	#13 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	Ok, here I go: I am talking about REDO the whole DVD, so forget about the current VOB formation. You'll do the whole thing again. 1) Decrypt by CELL ID the VOBS that have menus on it. - if the menus are NOT animated, then most surely, you won't be able to import them directly to DVD Lab, so you most drag that cell (file containing the menu) and drop it on Mpeg VCR and press the Picture button, then, when prompted to save it as, save it as a BMP and you are done. Import the BMP into DVD Lab under the Backgrounds tab. You won't need to resize nor do anything more. If theres background music on it, put it, you wont need to change it, since the BMP is not animated, it wont need synching. - if menus ARE animated, then you should convert them to NTSC (I use Main Concept MPEG Encoder, everything is very straight forward and accepts VOBs, the Audio comes out synched to the Video, so you won't need to synch it from somewhere else; the downside is that AC3 files are converted to MPEG Stereo, if the AC3 source file is Stereo, the you can convert it back to AC3 later). After you have done that, go ahead and import the video and audio into DVD Lab and put them into a Menu. ----Please remember to choose in the Stream for MpegEncoder in -Video and Audio-, so you'll get the video in one file and the audio in another one (so you can convert this Audio into AC3 afterwards) 2) Decrypt the other videos included on the DVD remembering to change to BY File (not Cell ID). - Take all the resulting videos and convert them to NTSC with Main Concept MPEG Encoder. 3) Here come the best part: - Put every NTSC file and Audio into DVD Lab and recreate the whole dvd (in the connections window). - Create the navigation with the buttons and all (you create the buttons, I used small rectangles and underlines, to make the links) - Mux - Enjoy!!!! P.S. Now we need to deinterlace the video, I dont know how to do that on MPEG Encoder, if you know how to do that, please tell me. EDIT: If you know how to change a PAL AC3 to NTSC please tell me too!!! (maybe there's a way to change this 5.1 AC3 into 6 channels WAV and then convert these WAVs to NTSC and then convert the resulting 6 WAVS into 1 5.1AC3 file). Last edited by vtwin0001; 10th October 2003 at 07:36.

3rd May 2003, 23:46	#2 \| Link
Speeder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10	I also got a PAL > NTSC menu question

17th September 2003, 19:45	#3 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	same thing here.... I succesfully transcoded a PAL DVD to a NTSC DVD, the whole thing, but the menus were bad... so I am also searching for a way to make them work; I can't find anywhere within the site the way to author the menus (unless its recreating, but theres no advice on how to do that)

23rd September 2003, 18:46	#4 \| Link
Richk50 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 171	Here also. About a third of my movies are PAL. Would love an easy automatic way of converting. I've read about several "easy" methods and come to the conclusion, that what is easy to a lot of people on this forum, is very difficult for me.

24th September 2003, 16:38	#6 \| Link
Zeul Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: England Posts: 1,361	don't forget you need to transfer all the subpicture highlight and button tables (and adjust them) into the new authored vob file, from the original. Otherwise you subpics won't show. Change all your LBA timimgs and some SCR times This is what I have had to do in NuMenu4u. It is something I am working on at the moment - format conversion.

24th September 2003, 19:48	#7 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	great! is that going to be like a 1-click app or is it an addition for NuMenu4u??

25th September 2003, 09:28	#8 \| Link
Zeul Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: England Posts: 1,361	the idea will be under global options you just select/deselect format conversion - simple as that. Zeul

25th September 2003, 18:35	#9 \| Link
callstreet Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 36	My good old Apex player - does that count as a solution? It supports NTSC and PAL TV's as well.

25th September 2003, 19:24	#10 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	I also have a DVD Player that reads all-region dvds and does the NTSC<->PAL conversion by itself, however, what I want I to be able to read all my PAL DVD on NTSC DVD players, and not taking that 'special hardware' with me everywhere I go.

24th November 2003, 01:38	#15 \| Link
vtwin0001 CEO and owner of VTCorp. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere in Mars Posts: 73	Well.... I actually came with a different solution, which involves a lot of work, however the results are quite impressive; you will come out with a DVD that is 99% identical to the original, the only thing is, is that the DVD is NTSC instead of PAL. Here's the deal: Use DIF4U (DoItFast4U)and on the options menu add the convesrion strings for it on the FOOTER , at the very end bilinearresize(720,480) convertfps(29.972) assumeframebased() separatefields() selectevery(4,0,3) weave() Let DIF4U work and all, then import manually to Scenarist; for the chapters use the text file that DVDDecrypter outputs for Scenarist (make sure its checked in the Settings menus of this program) For the menus, use that system and convert them using DVDLab or DVDMenuStudio, the subpictures of the menus can be extracted with subripper and then converted (to 720480) with DVDMenus Studio or DVDLab (using this method you'll have to re-extract the menus again using the good old VOBEdit method) Import the menus to Scenarist and you're done, please note this is a very difficult task to do, but is the best way to do it. For the subtitles use subripper, there are some guides here around that might help Have fun!