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Old 7th January 2003, 17:24   #1  |  Link
tangent
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Tobias has joined xiph.org

[23:30:30] <Emmett> People are gonna lose their fuckin' minds when they hear this one.
[23:31:11] <Snow> o_O
[23:31:29] <Emmett> Ready?
[23:31:33] <Aksu> sure
[23:31:46] <Emmett> Tobias Waldvogel
[23:31:52] <Emmett> Theora Project Scientist
[23:31:55] <Emmett> Xiph.Org Foundation
[23:32:14] <Emmett> There ya go.
[23:32:16] <jonI> oh, cool. he's the guy who wrote the Windows .ogg container code?
[23:32:22] <Emmett> the DS filters, yeah
[23:32:23] * Joins: Yog-Soth (~ysothoth@xiph-EALJ.csi.cuny.edu)
[23:32:28] <Yog-Soth> har
[23:32:36] <tuxisuau> sure?
[23:32:41] <Snow> wow
[23:33:02] <jonI> what's happening to the code he wrote?
[23:33:10] <tuxisuau> the ogm guy?
[23:33:16] <Emmett> It's going BSD-licensed and being put in Xiph CVS.
[23:33:32] <tuxisuau> and what about OGM?
[23:33:32] <volsung> Score!
[23:33:34] <jonI> great news.
[23:33:45] <Emmett> OGM is just a file extension.
[23:33:46] <tangent> whoa
[23:33:49] <tangent> finally!
[23:33:52] <tuxisuau> nice
[23:34:00] <tangent> WHAT THE FUCK TOOK YOU GUYS SO LONG?!?!?!
[23:34:00] <Emmett> Tobias will be coming on and working with us on Theora and on the toolchain of same.
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Old 7th January 2003, 17:25   #2  |  Link
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W00T! Great things are coming!
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Old 7th January 2003, 18:15   #3  |  Link
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Finally ! I cant help but agree with tangent, wtf took them so long to find each other !!
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Old 7th January 2003, 18:31   #4  |  Link
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Does it mean that all the bugs that has being reported will be fixed sooner?
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Old 7th January 2003, 18:56   #5  |  Link
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...and what does this mean for the ogm-container directshow filters. Is there any further progress? (I cant wait for matroska )
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Old 7th January 2003, 20:58   #6  |  Link
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Emmett said the sources of Tobias' filter will be put into Xiph CVS and be released under a BSD style license ... so literally everybody can work on it now and submit his changes to Xiph ...
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Old 7th January 2003, 21:27   #7  |  Link
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So now OGM is Ogg

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Old 7th January 2003, 22:27   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Finally ! I cant help but agree with tangent, wtf took them so long to find each other !!
They knew eachother for a long time. IIRC the major hold-up was from Tobias's end. If I understood Blacksun correctly Tobias is a relatively new coder and kinda shy to boot. He did not want to release his code untill he was sure he had polished it good.(something about him thinking his code might be sloppy and embarrasing) So either he got it polished or Blacksun gave Tobias a good pep talk.

You have to admit. It could be a bit much going from an obscure nobody in Spain to a well known famous though somewhat reclusive figure on the encoding sceen. How would any of us react in his place.
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Old 8th January 2003, 01:00   #9  |  Link
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Funny how this has all gone down. A few other people along with myself have different perspectives if and why Tobias might have joined XIPH. Some good some bad.

Quote:
[09:18] <Emmett> Jesus Fucking Christ.
[09:18] <tuxisuau> It seems like they're insane
[09:18] <lev> I would also like to use flash. :P
[09:18] <Tessai> lol
[09:18] <Tessai> no flash for ppc?
[09:18] <Tessai> (:
[09:18] <Emmett> It is *so* fucking time to crack down on this OGM shit.
[09:18] <lev> No. Not in linux, that is.
[09:18] <Tessai> ):
[09:19] <tuxisuau> Emmett: It seems you liked the url, didn't you?
[09:19] * xercist has quit IRC (Client Exit: I like core dumps)
[09:19] <Emmett> That's insane.
[09:19] * tuxisuau is evil sometimes, too.
[09:19] <Emmett> We don't fucking support that, goddamnit!
[09:19] <Emmett> I'm tired of the fuckin' E-mail!
[09:19] <Emmett> God-Fucking-Dammit!
[09:19] <tuxisuau> Emmett: I've through the same when I did read that yesterday.
[09:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Emmett
[09:19] <Tessai> uh oh...
[09:20] * Tessai ducks
[09:20] * Emmett changes topic to 'Welcome to #vorbis on irc.xiph.org. No, we do not support OGM. Please look elsewhere.'
[09:20] * Emmett sets mode: -o Emmett
[09:20] <lev> WTF is OGM?
[09:20] <tuxisuau> lev: "OGM is the file format for multimedia developed by the Xiph.org Foundation. It is very similar to the common Microsoft AVI. The main difference between OGM and AVI is that the new format can store audio with the Ogg Vorbis codec."
[09:20] <lev> fonkmfoasl;
[09:20] <tuxisuau> lev: http://freshmeat.net/releases/108100/
[09:20] * lev looks at the buffer.
[09:20] * tuxisuau laughs
[09:20] <Emmett> of course, that URL lies.
[09:20] <tuxisuau> how can they be that mad to say that?
[09:21] <Emmett> We do not develop OGM.
Just wondering... oh btw... this log is 4 days old.
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Old 8th January 2003, 01:01   #10  |  Link
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Well, I am glad that this conflict is over. At least now there is a better container than AVI available that will be standard. Of course Ogg still has issues as it is not really designed for such use. But hey, maybe I'm just too biased.

Anyway, the bottom line is that we will not cease development of Matroska because of this. We need a format designed from the ground up for these purposes not from the top back to the ground and up again.

Anyway, why does everyone think Matroska is so far off? From our current position we don't have far to go before we can have working tools. I am not saying Ogg is bad or you shouldn't use it. I use it. But it is still lacking in some areas. Just don't get too carried away over it.

I don't mean for this post to come across as rude or degrading to Ogg. I just don't like how some people (not here) have decided that Matroska is a useless idea now that we have an official Ogg container to use.

Last edited by spyder; 9th January 2003 at 21:43.
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Old 8th January 2003, 01:44   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by spyder
Anyway, why does everyone think Matroska is so far off? From our current position we don't have far to go before we can have working tools.
Because you've been saying that's it's close to being done since February 2002 or so, in its various names

Or at least that's what I've observed.
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Old 8th January 2003, 01:50   #12  |  Link
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Yes well, that was before the realization that the old MCF had serious faults. Now these faults have been fixed and coding is already in prgress for the new libraries, both C++ and Java. With the codebase we already had, which had been proven to work as shown in our private DShow filters, we are only a few months away from a release.

OK, that last part was rude...retracted.

Last edited by spyder; 8th January 2003 at 01:53.
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Old 8th January 2003, 02:53   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by neo_sapien
Because you've been saying that's it's close to being done since February 2002 or so, in its various names Or at least that's what I've observed.
It should be noted that a test MCF parser was built and integrated into VirtualDubMod for testing purposes. I could produce MCF files that I could then play back in WMP 6.4.

But, as Spyder pointed out, the format was changed to make it better. It should now be the most flexible container in existance. So, when we say that it will be out soon, it actually will.

But anyway. I think its great that Xiph has accepted Tobias onto their team, and taken the OGGDS into their CVS, instead of bringing legal action into the picture....
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Old 8th January 2003, 02:58   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
But anyway. I think its great that Xiph has accepted Tobias onto their team, and taken the OGGDS into their CVS, instead of bringing legal action into the picture....
I would wait for official word or hear back from Tobias. But Pamel... do you truly think this is a good thing? It maybe for XIPH/Theora/OGG and Emmett but surely not in the big picture, not at all.

Legal action... I won't even touch that... but I could post a nice quote from IRC
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Old 8th January 2003, 03:23   #15  |  Link
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Originally posted by BetaBoy
but I could post a nice quote from IRC
What is your goal? To bring up old, bad feelings and preempt a good thing from happening? I'd suggest you just cease since you're not adding anything to this thread at all.
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Old 8th January 2003, 03:24   #16  |  Link
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Originally posted by BetaBoy
do you truly think this is a good thing? It maybe for XIPH/Theora/OGG and Emmett but surely not in the big picture, not at all.
I wonder what is this "big picture" you talk about.

IMO, it's surely a great thing that Tobias' work has became "official". It'll be another nail in (what I expect to be) AVI's coffin. More people will get in touch with OGM, and start working with it.

Quote:
What is your goal? To bring up old, bad feelings and preempt a good thing from happening? I'd suggest you just cease since you're not adding anything to this thread at all.
Amen to that, Keynes.
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Old 8th January 2003, 05:01   #17  |  Link
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Now these faults have been fixed and coding is already in prgress for the new libraries, both C++ and Java.

C++ arghgghhghghhh.

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Old 8th January 2003, 05:24   #18  |  Link
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Java arghgghhghghhh
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Old 8th January 2003, 05:33   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by BetaBoy
Funny how this has all gone down. A few other people along with myself have different perspectives if and why Tobias might have joined XIPH. Some good some bad.

Just wondering... oh btw... this log is 4 days old.
When Emmett said "We do not support OGM", he really meant something like "We do not provide technical support for OGM". This document should clarify everything: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ogm-draft.html.1
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Old 8th January 2003, 05:43   #20  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neo Neko
They knew eachother for a long time. IIRC the major hold-up was from Tobias's end. If I understood Blacksun correctly Tobias is a relatively new coder and kinda shy to boot. He did not want to release his code untill he was sure he had polished it good.(something about him thinking his code might be sloppy and embarrasing) So either he got it polished or Blacksun gave Tobias a good pep talk.

You have to admit. It could be a bit much going from an obscure nobody in Spain to a well known famous though somewhat reclusive figure on the encoding sceen. How would any of us react in his place.
What actually happened was that for some reason, mail to Tobias from Xiph was being spam-filtered. When Emmett finally got through to Tobias (via Blacksun I believe), everything started happening real fast.
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