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Old 7th January 2003, 15:04   #1  |  Link
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a Simple suggestion: encode credits with SimpleResize

Since the credits are encoded with such a low bitrate, wouldn't it be better to use SimpleResize for them (even if the movie is Bicubic * or Bilinear resized)?
I'm actually editing the [...]_Credits.avs before encoding, but it would be easier if GKnot did it by default. [of course if it's a good idea... if not, just delete the thread]
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Old 7th January 2003, 15:25   #2  |  Link
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Hi-

SimpleResize is a Bilinear resizer, but I think your idea has merit. I don't know how much work would be required for TheWEF to implement it, though. But as you said, it's not hard to do the editing yourself.
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Old 7th January 2003, 16:30   #3  |  Link
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I use a similar method... bilinear+tempsmooter(10) makes my credits VERY little
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Old 7th January 2003, 17:07   #4  |  Link
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I also make my credits bilinear. After you've set the credits starting point, all you have to do is click the "Save & Encode" button, then you can click "Movie Only," set it up how you want, and do "Save." (Save it as movie.avs where movie is whatever you want) This will close the window, so click "Save & Encode" again, then choose bilinear, maybe one of the smoother settings (or just edit the yourself and add TemporalSmoother(10) as jonny said). Then click "Save" again and save it as movie_Credits.avs. This way makes Gknot do most of the work yet still makes your credits more compressible than your main movie (= Gknot adjusts movie bitrate higher).

Also, I am not sure but for me it seems that TemporalSmoother(10) works fine on the type of credits that simply appear in the center in succession, as opposed to scrolling from bottom to top. When they scroll, temporalsmoother sometimes makes them illegible (even at high resolutions). Has anyone else run into this, and if so what settings do you use to make scrolling credits more compressible yet still legible?
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Old 7th January 2003, 17:59   #5  |  Link
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Yes, sometime this happen, but there are a lot of factor... resolution, size/font of the text, it's always better to make some test by hand first
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Old 7th January 2003, 18:02   #6  |  Link
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When you notice this, do you do a lower TemporalSmoother or some other filter to increase compressibility or just encode with bilinear so you can read it?
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Old 7th January 2003, 18:34   #7  |  Link
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When this happen usually i lower the tempsmoot value or i lower the quant for the credits encode. Generally i make some tests with both those parameters.
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Old 7th January 2003, 20:06   #8  |  Link
manono
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bcam-

Of course, you're right. No need for any adjustments by TheWEF. The best way I've seen to do the credits was to follow a suggestion from TheREAL (I think), by using the Coring Filter (VDub only) as well as a very strong Temp Smoother. It takes care of those scrolling white on black credits, and even at Quant 31 they remain legible (usually), and without that trailing white stuff you get at high quants. Sometimes they get skinny and start to flash a bit, so you lower the quant.

So, you get the Coring Filter, and encode the credits in VDub with BilinearResize, put on the temp smoother very strongly, and set coring to 64. Unless and until someone ports this to AviSynth, you'll have to do it separately, point GKnot to the credits.avi before encoding the movie and adjust the final file size accordingly. At least I think that's how you would do it through GKnot. I always join the movie and credits myself.

Last edited by manono; 7th January 2003 at 20:15.
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Old 7th January 2003, 20:44   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
The best way I've seen to do the credits was to follow a suggestion from TheREAL (I think), by using the Coring Filter (VDub only) as well as a very strong Temp Smoother. It takes care of those scrolling white on black credits, and even at Quant 31 they remain legible (usually), and without that trailing white stuff you get at high quants. Sometimes they get skinny and start to flash a bit, so you lower the quant.
Thanks for the tip! I will try this out.

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At least I think that's how you would do it through GKnot. I always join the movie and credits myself.
I'm wondering, on the "Add Job" page it allows you to choose the .avi for the credits, so is it possible to not adjust the size or anything and just add it straight to the job? That would be nice if you could do the credits in vdub or using jonny's divx5enc and then use gknot to finish it. Has anyone tried this? I'm not able to test it at the moment.
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Old 7th January 2003, 23:32   #10  |  Link
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I was just fooling around with this. It looks like GKnot won't just mux a pre-made Credits.avi. It looks to me like you'll have to encode it yet again. I'll stick to muxing them, adding the audio and splitting, outside of GKnot.
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Old 8th January 2003, 00:52   #11  |  Link
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Anyway this option would be nicenicenice, i think a lot of people do credits manually loosing a lot of the GKnot automation
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Old 12th March 2003, 11:20   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonny
I use a similar method... bilinear+tempsmooter(10) makes my credits VERY little
Puts you TemporalSmoother(10) before or after the Bilinear Resize?
Do you use quality at 20% or quantizer 31 (0%) for credits?

Thanks
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Old 12th March 2003, 11:58   #13  |  Link
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Come on guys,

credits are always very small anyway.
If I were in your shoes I won't bother myself with that matter.
But if you want my opinion why do not you implement a nearest neighbour algorithm that would be faster and produce smaller output (btw I'm not sure about that) than bilinear.

There is more important things that can be improved on the rest of Gknot(me think).
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Last edited by Flora; 12th March 2003 at 12:01.
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Old 12th March 2003, 12:16   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Manono wrote:
The best way I've seen to do the credits was to follow a suggestion from TheREAL (I think), by using the Coring Filter (VDub only) as well as a very strong Temp Smoother.
I once participated in a thread on powerdivx.com a long time ago where we discussed ways to reduce credits size. The idea that you mentioned was agreed upon as the best way to reduce size while still keeping things readable. However since powerdivx.com no longer exist, neither does that thread

I've been using the method that Jonny mentioned for a while now because that coring filter didn't really add very much.

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Flora wrote:
credits are always very small anyway.
You're wrong, credits can be quite big. If you don't apply lower bitrate to them then the credits of a 90 min movie can easily exceed 80 MB.
The most recent example I have is LotR: FotR (Extended Edition). The credits on the 2nd DVD (which last about 20 mins) are approx. 200 MB without bitrate reduction! But that's an extreme example I agree.

Applying highest possible quantizer + TemporalSmoother(10) + BilinearResize should reduce the size by about 75%. Although I believe VDub's Bilinear results in a lower filesize than Avisynth's Bilinear...

Or just cut them off if you don't care, so you don't have to worry about it .
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Old 12th March 2003, 16:26   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Acaila

You're wrong, credits can be quite big. If you don't apply lower bitrate to them then the credits of a 90 min movie can easily exceed 80 MB.
Is there anyone not encoding credit with low bitrate? dont think so.
Unless you've got your name in the credit and you wanna be able to clearly see/show it!

What I am saying is: I do not think there is much SIZE difference between bilinear filtering and Bicubic, for instance.
Bilinear will surely compute swiftlier than bicubic. That is the only advantage I can reasonably think of.
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Last edited by Flora; 12th March 2003 at 16:29.
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