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Old 20th December 2002, 16:56   #1  |  Link
DaveQB
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Staircase effect on CX23881 card ?? how to avoid it ??

not sure if this should go in newbies or here, so here it is (i am sure it will be moved otherwise)

with my new CX23881 chip based card i can get some good quality, but....

i found toinight running some tests the best res is 320x240
384x288 is a better quality, but i get these damn lines, like a "digital" look to it.

@ 640x480, its all over the place,
of course 240x180 removes these lines completely, but the quality is, of course, getting closer to the old 8-bit chipped based cards

http://DavidWard.myvnc.com/lines.jpg

what could this be and any filters for VD that could solve it??
i capture with iuVCR, as the software that came with sux and theres limited programs that suport this new chipset

thanx
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Last edited by DaveQB; 12th January 2003 at 16:53.
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Old 20th December 2002, 17:33   #2  |  Link
The Edge
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It is interlaced.
Use a De-interlace filter in VurtualDub or AVS filter later.
Search for interlace as this would surly have benn discussed before.
Good luck.

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Old 20th December 2002, 17:56   #3  |  Link
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yeah thought exactly that, but no,

the deinterlace in VD makes the picture so bad its terrible

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Old 20th December 2002, 18:20   #4  |  Link
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ok it worked this time,

i thinks it all to do with res

i ran the Deinterlace @ 640x480 and it got ride of the lines, but a little blurrier.

so i figured if its interlaced then it need to be deinterlaced even @ 320x240 which is showing no lines anyway,
but that simply makes the picture blurry, doesnt help the coz


my question now is, is it possible to make a Capture Card capture interlaced @ certain res and not interlaced @ other resolutions ???

any light shed on this subject, much appreciated
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Old 21st December 2002, 11:11   #5  |  Link
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Every capture card will cause interlace if captured with a vertical res. higher than half of max. possible. E.g., you'll get interlaced video for PAL if the vertical res is > 288. There is some old fashioned material(old movies, for example) which is noninterlaced anyway, so it won't be captured interlaced no matter which res.
If you want to encode the captured video to vcd, you can configure VDub to discard one field, as you won't need it. Then resize the picture to vcd res.
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Old 21st December 2002, 12:11   #6  |  Link
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hmmm okee, very interesting.

its max res as stated on the site and box is
720x576

576/2 = 288 (duh!)

so my 320x240 is the best res to use ??

it doesnt have the lines at all, but isnt as clear as 384x288

384x288 cap ran through VD with Deinterlace filter on does end up somewhat similar to a direct 320x240 cap

hmmmm all good to learn,

back to some more testing .....



thanx
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Old 21st December 2002, 19:10   #7  |  Link
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384x288 is better than 320x240. You won't need a deinterlace 'cause there's only one field captured.
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Old 22nd December 2002, 03:05   #8  |  Link
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oh, hmmm
but theres the interlacing lines like my eg vid up there ^
just not as bad,

320x240 removes all interlace effects,

i am confused now
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Old 22nd December 2002, 15:25   #9  |  Link
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i see you're from australia,and therefore on PAL
and therefore you can consider only 2 (two)
vertical resolutions:
288 or 576 !
( you can toy with horizontal resolution (352,480 etc), but using
on capture something different than those two vertical resolutions i DON'T
reccomend- for PAL off course )

use 576 and you worries are gone!
(not to go deeply into explanation why 480 is wron for PAL etc. )

cheers
Ivo
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Old 22nd December 2002, 15:46   #10  |  Link
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hmmm, but i have found that 320x240 is the highest i can capture at without getting the interlacing effects all over the screen.

384x288 produces them, along with every res above that

is that just this card in particular or is that normal ?!?!

should i therefore, cap @ 384x288 and then run deinterlace over it ??

the largest res it will allow in iuVCR is 640x480
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Old 22nd December 2002, 18:57   #11  |  Link
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driver issues for that card have ben discussed recently here
to some extent.......
search for those(in thread "samples" you'll find some people that
have the card,etc._i don't know if they'll be willing to help,probably yes...also on recent therad on "best capture card" something,there some more........few people have it,and even fewer got it to work properly on their systems.... ),& see if you can get it to work on hi-res:
352x288 is not good enough if you're gonna ask me,
640x480 is flat-wrong for PAL input ( that's sure as hell! )

if 288 is all you can get,you better off,and use bt8x8 on 720x576 (or so) instead.......
(but i guess by now you know 288 is lousy on that device,and on any bt device really..)
btw: 288 CAN'T be interlaced ,as in that mode card disregards one field.....(if you selected PAL for input..if you selected NTSC and then tried it then....well.......)

iuVCR has some funny resolution pick-up issues etc.,and also
when it makes segmentation (if you're on FAT32) it drops some
content on those spots.....

[if you think that you saw interlacing on 288 then send screenshot,and
i'll try to tell you what happened....off course your card has to be in PAl mode (jumpers on card itself,etc.) ]
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Old 5th January 2003, 14:42   #12  |  Link
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heres a pic @ 384x288 see the funny lines on the far side line ??


@ 320x240 those funny lines have gone, but so has picture quality

i cant decide which card to sell, this based on the new 10-bit ship or my Winfast based on the old 8-bit chip

i think the future is the CX23881 but right perhaps not

?!?1
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Old 5th January 2003, 15:06   #13  |  Link
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368x276
see the funny lookin lines ???
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Old 5th January 2003, 20:16   #14  |  Link
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one thing is clear these pictures are not interlaced.
and now something different, where did you see lines in the pictures ??
the one with the higher res looks just more clear to me.
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Old 6th January 2003, 01:57   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveQB

heres a pic @ 384x288 see the funny lines on the far side line ??

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Old 6th January 2003, 14:08   #16  |  Link
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Capture @ full res. (640*480) and deinterlace it with SmartDeinterlacer and NOT with VirtualDub's own deinterlacer and the video will look fine.
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Old 6th January 2003, 14:12   #17  |  Link
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i ran several tests and found VD's own deinterlace to be better then any other plugin filter i could find (including SmartDeinterlacer)





heres a good eg of those lines, it looks like compression, but its not, they actually move in like a wavy pattern,

happens alot on edges and especially computer generated graphics
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Old 6th January 2003, 18:44   #18  |  Link
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can you post a moving example of that ? i still cant get it and im feeling like an idiot (but well, i have glasses)
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Old 7th January 2003, 03:14   #19  |  Link
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I really suggest you use 640x480, then edit it with AVISynth2 and deinterlace it with Donald Graft's Decomb plugin. It'll retain sharpness of both fields of the interlaced frame, and avisynth just rocks for editing.

Use something like this:
Code:
AVISource("cap_0.00.avi")+AVISource("cap_0.01.avi")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth2\plugins\decomb.dll")
Telecide(guide=1)
Trim(framehere,framehere)++Trim(framehere,framehere)
Decimate(cycle=5)
Crop(0,4,640,476)
BilinearResize(512,384)
Amplify(2.2) # increases the audio volume
And just fill in framehere with the frame numbers to cut on. See the docs on AVISynth for more details.
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Old 7th January 2003, 03:19   #20  |  Link
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the decomb script above is for IVTC and is not appropriate for PAL;

instead you should just try
telecide()
or
fielddeinterlace()

daveqb - can't really see these jaggies properly - they are either caused by bad deinterlacing or a poor resizing algorithim

give the avisynth deinterlacing filter tomsmocomp a try
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