DVD that is half Film and half NTSC

[vinyl_warrior]

I'm trying to convert Jay and Silent Bob Strike back into a Divx4 file using GordionKnot and Doom9's guide. My first try I selected ForceFilm in DVD2AVI and partway through the final divx the movie had lots of interlacing. I tried creating the file again with ForceFilm selected and Smart Deinterlacing on. The first half of the movie is fine, but where the interlacing used to occur I now have a slightly choppy picture. I went back to DVD2AVI and looked closer at the stats. When I would loaded the vob files individually I noticed that the first few are Film (with varying %s) and the next few are rock solid NTSC, and the last one is a rock solid Film.

Any pointers or suggestions on how to deal with this multi-video type source?

[Guest]

Generate your d2v with no field operations (disable Force Film).
Then use Decomb and configure Decimate for mode=1 and an appropriate threshold, as described in the help file.

Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)

The resulting clip will be left at 30fps. The film portions will get a frame blend created to replace the duplicates and the nonfilm portions will be deinterlaced.

[vinyl_warrior]

I hope you'll forgive my ignorance, but I'm unsure of where to run decomb from, how to do so, and when I should do so, and I can't find any instructions in guides. The description of GK says that it has avisynth included in it, but I can't find it. The help file included with Decomb leads to me to believe that I should run it immediately after creating the d2v file. Is this correct? The help file doesn't mention support for d2v files.

If there is a guide that describes all this, please let me know.

Does decomb permanently alter the vob files? If I make a mistake with decomb do I have to rerip the DVD?

[Guest]

I am not a Gordian Knot user so perhaps someone else can jump in here.

What I can tell you is that you Decomb does not modify the VOB.

I'm going to ask manono to help you as he uses Gordian Knot with Decomb.

[manono]

Hi vinyl_warrior-

I think I can take that one.

I'll assume you installed the complete GKnot package along with the update. It installs AviSynth in the right place.

You have the current Decomb (Version 3.4), right? So decompress it and put the Decomb3.4.dll in the GKnot folder with ther other .dlls (you'll also see the GreedyHMA.dll and the InverseTelecine.dll in there).

Make your .d2v in DVD2AVI without Force Film (30fps). You can add Decomb in one of two ways. One is to add it with the Edit Button when you're setting up your .avs in GKnot (but don't hit the IVTC button-that will set it up for InverseTelecine), and the other is to edit the .avs itself later (open it with Notepad or something). Erase InverseTelecine (or GreedyHMA or AviSynth_Spatial) up at the top and replace it with Decomb3.4.dll. Then add Telecide()-Decimate(5) (the basic setting for NTSC IVTC and Deinterlace-read the help file to see if you need to make any changes) right after Crop.

The final .avs may look something like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DIVXSO~1\GKnot\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DIVXSO~1\GKnot\GORDIA~1\Decomb3.4.dll")
mpeg2source("G:\Boogiepop\7\7-30fps.d2v")
# CROPPING
crop(5,4,708,474)
Telecide()
Decimate(5)
BicubicResize(544,400,0,0.5)

I cut out the unnecessary stuff, but I'm sure you get the idea. Make sure your Top crop number is an even one (bottom also?) and the sum of the Left-Right Crop numbers in GKnot are divisible by 4 (zeros are OK if no black bars on Left or Right)). Using Decomb does nothing to the .vob files, so you won't have to rerip (you mean use SmartRipper again, right?) even if the final .avi is messed up somehow.

Let us know how it goes, and come back if you have other questions or problems.

Edit: neuron2 suggests another setting if indeed you have pure interlaced video for part of the movie (the Decomb Help file will show you how to tell, but since the previous try came out jerky in certain parts, he's probably right):

Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)

That's going to keep it at 30fps, and may force you to go to another CD. Damn Kevin Smith. I had similar problems with Clerks. When's he going to have enough money to make his movies properly?

[vinyl_warrior]

When I'm checking on the crop sizes, do I measure the ones that are in the .avs (the screen I see when I hit the edit button), or do I measure the ones that are displayed in the GK resolution tab? And for further clarification, if it's the ones in the GK resolution tab, is it the numbers that I can manipulate pixel by pixel that I need to be concerned about? If so, after I manually resize, I click smart crop (like the guide tells me too) and the numbers change to values that aren't going to work. Is it just a matter of toying around with the numbers until I find a combination that satisfies both the left/right and up/down values, or do I forget about smart crop? On the number topic, Left+Right is supposed to be divisible by 4, not each number individually, right?

When I put in the commands to run the decomb dll I put them under the IVTC heading, correct?

When I load the d2v it automatically selects a 29.97 framerate. Do I want to change that or just leave it be?

And what is hopefully my final question: both examples of the Decimate line have a threshold set to 50. Is that value there just as an example and should I check out the help file to determine what I want to set it at, or is 50 a fairly standard recommended threshold value?

Thanks for helping a newbie out

[manono]

Hi Again-

is it the numbers that I can manipulate pixel by pixel that I need to be concerned about

That's how I do it-when I'm setting those pixel values in GKnot's resolution screen (so 3,9 Left-Right is OK, and 4,10 is not). Hitting one of the Smart Crops may screw it up, but you can do it manually while keeping an eye on the Aspect Error box a little further down, so you can get that number as close to 0 as possible.

When I put in the commands to run the decomb dll I put them under the IVTC heading, correct?

The Decomb3.4.dll itself goes up at the top with the other .dlls. The Telecide-Decimate stuff you can put after Crop (it's a bit faster that way), but before or after, it'll work either way.

When I load the d2v it automatically selects a 29.97 framerate. Do I want to change that

No-don't touch it-all kinds of problems may result if you do.

both examples of the Decimate line have a threshold set to 50.

neuron2 himself suggested that one, and here you're getting out of my depth. We'll have to call him back: Decomb Decomb Decomb Decomb.

[Guest]

Try 50 at first. Then read the help file.

[vinyl_warrior]

Encoding took an extra 2 hours with Decomb enabled, but it took care of the interlacing nicely. The only problem I had was foreshadowed:

Make sure your Top crop number is an even one (bottom also?)

I'm pretty sure that the bottom does need to be an even, as I had an odd number and ended up with an ugly white line at the bottom of the video that I could just sort of see the picture through. It wasn't thick, probably just a pixel. It flickered, and that's just not cool. Other than that it looks great

When comes down to getting proper cropping numbers, what is your preferred technique? Do you leave a black border, or do you chop the film down? I can't find any info on what is a tolerable aspect ratio error, so I don't know if it's acceptable to be .3 off, or if come hell or high water, I need to have a 0 ratio error.

Thanks again

[Guest]

Sorry, Vinyl, there is a bug that requires the height to be an even multiple. I will release a fix today. You can put the crop after Telecide if you must keep an odd height.

[manono]

Hi-
Cropping-Get rid of the black borders completely.
Aspect Error-.3% is fine. I understand the eye can't tell if it is less than 2%, but I can usually get it down to .2% or less.

And the new version of Decomb is out, so you shouldn't have to worry about Top-Bottom Crops any longer.

[vinyl_warrior]

I ran decomb before cropping, and even though I had cropping values that were off (Left+Right=18; top/bottom odd) it turned out fine. It may have taken a little bit longer, but I let it encode while I sleep, so I didn't even notice the extra time

With the new version do you still need L+R=number divisible by 4, if you want to run it after crop?

[Guest]

@vinyl

Telecide wants to see the width of its input clip as a multiple of 4. If it isn't you'll get an exception thrown. Note that if W is the width before cropping and L and R are the amounts cropped on the left and right, and the cropping is done *before* decomb, then the value W - (L + R) must be a multiple of 4, because that is the cropped width that will be seen by Decomb.

[iamsparticuz]

Just for the record Not another teen movie is like this also. There are times when its NTSC at straight film, others when it has a high %, and then other times when its interlaced.

[iamsparticuz]

Hmm well after looking it over it just made the first 10 seconds a little more choppy and thats it, the movie wasnt the same as jay & silent bob strike back. I think my original was better in which i enabled force film and smart deinterlaced.