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Old 30th August 2003, 16:12   #201  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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Quote:
Originally posted by ookzDVD

or it's the M5 -> M6 problem ?
In fact, M6 is slightly faster than M5, with encodingComplexity=very-high, because I tweaked the EHQ levels. Remember, 'very-high' used to correspond to 85, higher than my recommended 80 level. So now 85 = 80. Also, in M6, the old method*) to set EHQ now again works, without my custom DLL. *):The old method is encoderComplexity=<number> in codecProperties, as well as registry key.

To double-check I ran producer.exe on the command line:

producer -i <testfile.avs> -am music -ad c:\autorv9_movie.rpad -lc e,d

and timed it. testfile.avs is 500 frames 704x304 MPEG-2 source.
M6: 1min 17sec
M5: 1min 24sec

So there is nothing wrong with the speed in M6 by itself. I have not yet tried the latest AutoRV9 with it. In order to help find out what/if there is a problem you can also run producer on the cmd line to try to isolate the problem. Other methods of verification includes the <calcPSNR> parameter (use search) which will include in the rv9log.txt file the actual encoderComplexity level. Thanks.
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Old 30th August 2003, 20:07   #202  |  Link
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Karl: What complexity levels did you use for that little test? Both 80? Or both very-high? What I'm asking is, is the speed difference due to optimisations in the new milestone or because one is using EHQ at level 85 and the other at 80?

Also, I keep seeing bits and pieces which contradict each other, so I'd like to ask straight out. Does RV9 use any filtering whether it's in loop or not? If so what filtering is used?
 
Old 30th August 2003, 22:55   #203  |  Link
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RV9 uses in-loop filtering at encoding time, and no filtering on decoding.
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Old 30th August 2003, 23:04   #204  |  Link
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So what does the in loop filtering do? Smoothing?
 
Old 31st August 2003, 22:05   #205  |  Link
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Well, this is actually the first version of AutoRV9 that ran perfectly from the first time I started it! And that small window on the left you've added which displays a mini-log i MOST helpful when doing video tests
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Old 1st September 2003, 03:45   #206  |  Link
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DC: Thanks a lot for all your help and your wonderful program!!!
Mmmmmmm, iīve been thinking......its not possible to do the same thing as with the ending credits, to the starting credits??? The logo of WB, Paramount and the titles of the movie at the beginin??? Just an idea.

karl_lillevold: Thanks to you and all the development team. You are doing a terrific work with rv9.
Maybe you could answer me one question.......the other day i start doing LOTR-The Two Towers with AutoRV9, 2 passes vbr, but after 10 hours, when the analisys ends, and the real code start, 1 or 2 hours from the analysis, i had a problem with the power supply and the machine shutdown, so i lost 12 hours, because Producer does not generate a log file, like "video.stats" in Xvid.......are you planning to make something like this in future releases??? i think it could make things easier to us, not only because of problems like i had, but doing LOTR and "lost" my machine for about 20 hours donīt think itīs a good idea..........usually with Xvid i make 1st. pass one night, and the 2nd. pass in the next night while iīm sleeping.
Or are you planning something new about???

Anyway, keep doing the good work with RV9
Sincerally
A RV9 FAN
Alx

PD. My apologies for my horrible english.....my mother tongue is spanish
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Old 1st September 2003, 23:33   #207  |  Link
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@superdump: the difference in speed is due to the (previous) difference between 80 and 85. In order to get quality 85 with M6, you now have to use 90. However, the improvement in quality from 80 to 90 is not worth the extra time for now.

Yes, RV9 has an adaptive advanced in-loop filter, specifically designed to remove block edges before using the reconstructed frame in the prediction loop. Therefore the encoder and decoder filters have to match 100%, and the filtering strength can not be adjusted on the decoder side. It is not the same filter as in H.264, but the principle is the same in both, if you are looking for technical background on the subject. Specifically, one feature RealNetworks proposed to be included in H.264, was a tiny amount of pre-determined dither across filtered block boundaries, because on large (LCD, plasma, DLP) screens, a difference of just '1' in luminance or chrominance level is visible. However, we did not succeed, and the H.264 in-loop filter does not have this feature.

@alx: thanks! that's a very good suggestion. We have already considered this option, and it may be included in Producer 9.3, but not in 9.2, since it requires quite a few producer changes. One problem is that a current requirement is that the two passes are run with the exact same parameters, including bitrate, resizers, pre-filters. If any of those are accidentally changed, the 2nd pass would be messed up, usually resulting in too small filesize.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 03:04   #208  |  Link
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to Karl

Karl, usually with Xvid i make the 1st pass in the first night and see with a Q=2 maximun filesize........letīs say that it is 750 mb. then i go for a 1CD rip in my 2nd pass.
If in the 1st. pass filesize is (for ex.) 1800mb. obviously i consider a 2CD rip or 3CD rip.
The only thing that i change is the final size for the 2nd. pass..........
Anyway, it was just an idea that normally save to do the 1st pass 2 times.
Thanks a lot for your work and time to answer my "newbies" questions.
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Old 2nd September 2003, 10:05   #209  |  Link
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Thanks for the reply Karl, interesting stuff. I thought that would be the main reason for the speed difference. Nevertheless, as everyone keeps saying, keep up the good work.
 
Old 3rd September 2003, 01:54   #210  |  Link
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@karl_lillevold,

Thank you for the test,
I'll try to check on my system.
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Old 3rd September 2003, 04:30   #211  |  Link
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Karl, sorry to bother you with another question.........arenīt you planning to add support in the .rmvb container to put more audio streams???. Usually i like to make backup of dvdīs with the original track and the track in my language.
My firsts experiments with matroska wasnīt very good.
Thanks
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Old 3rd September 2003, 04:43   #212  |  Link
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@alx: no, I don't think this feature is being planned. it would have worked, since there is support for multiple streams in the RM file format. The problem is that no one has used the feature, because there is no mechanism to switch streams on playback, and there is also no tool to create such a stream. In order to have multiple languages in RM, you currently need to use SMIL and multiple files.

On the topic of Matroska, that has worked well for me, after a few RM bugs were fixed, but I have not yet tried multiple languages, just merging one audio track with a video track and adding subtitles. If you have problems getting it to work, my experience is that the Matroska developers are very eager to fix any problems you have to report, especially if you have an easy repro case.
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Old 4th September 2003, 05:29   #213  |  Link
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@karl_lillevold,

I just replace the rv9_light from the autorv9 (beta 5),
from ML5 to ML6 and I have speed problem, the ML6 is
somehow slower compared with ML5 with the same audience file.
I will provide the log later.
Thank you.
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Old 4th September 2003, 06:05   #214  |  Link
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@ookzDVD: very strange. Like I wrote, I do not have this problem on my system, and I do not understand what could be wrong. Maybe for some reason you were never actually using EHQ in M5... I will see how reasonable your encoding speed is when you provide the logs. Also remember to include your main system specs. A few things you can look into:

1) check that producer.exe in both cases uses 80-90% of the CPU in task manager. Maybe in one case it runs at IDLE and some other app is using all the CPU cycles.

2) check that you do not have any registry keys to over-ride the encoding complexity. This is in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\RealNetworks\RV9

3) enable calcPSNR with this reg file, and check that in both cases (M5 and M6), the rv9log.txt file starts with "cpu_scal: 85". rv9log.txt is appended to, so check the entry that corresponds to your latest main encode. Remember to disable this after testing, by removing the key with regedit. Same location as above.
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Old 5th September 2003, 09:35   #215  |  Link
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@karl_lillevold,

Here is the log file for both ML5 and ML6.

http://www.japati.com/mib_2_LogFile_ml5.txt
http://www.japati.com/mib_2_LogFile_ml6.txt

I hope you could find something from the logs.

PS. I only add registry with EHQ reg patch.

Thank you.
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Old 5th September 2003, 14:55   #216  |  Link
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@ookzDVD

avoid to use registry patch for EHQ level. let autorv9 add it in the audience.

it seems to me M5 doesn't take care for the registry patch while M6 use in priority the registry patch.

i think karl wait the rv9log.txt file not the autorv9 log file because in rv9log.txt u can see the encoder complexity.

PS: do u know in beta 6 u have a "speed test" option ?

Bye.
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Old 5th September 2003, 19:18   #217  |  Link
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@ookzDVD: i think the problem is simply that you did not actually use EHQ with Milestone 5, and the slower speed with Milestone 6 is that you are now (finally) encoding with EHQ. The registry method to enable EHQ never worked with Milestone 5, unless you correctly replaced the encoder DLL, like I described here.

This is good news. Sorry it is slower though, but all the CPU cycles are spent wisely to obtain better video quality, I assure you.
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Old 6th September 2003, 10:29   #218  |  Link
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Hi

I really like RV9 and would like to use it. I tried to encode Naked gun 33 1/3 with AutoRV9b6, using lower quality for credits. However, AutoRV9 was not able to join the two files. Neither was I afterwards using AVI/MPEG/RM/WMW joiner 4.48. The two files both play fine in RealOne and MPC (though jerky playback in both). Here is the log file, hopefully the cause of the problem can be found there. Thanks in advance.

http://www.direktdemokrati.net/Nakedgun33_LogFile.txt

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Old 6th September 2003, 16:14   #219  |  Link
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@olorin: This is caused by a change in rmeditor in Milestone 6, where it will not merge files with a different maxBitrate. Here is what you need to do to get around that, until AutoRV9 1.3 final comes out.

1) Find a copy of an older AutoRV9, or Producer Milestone 5.
2) find the old rmto3260.dll in producer's tools folder. In AutoRV9 this is in Softs\Rp9_Light\tools
3) Goto the same folder in the new AutoRV9.
4) replace its rmto3260.dll (6.0.11.434) with the old one (in my case v 6.0.11.433)

now you can merge the files you just encoded manually:

5) open cmd line window, cd to AutoRV9\softs\Rp9_Light
6) then type

rmeditor -i <main_file.rmvb> -i <credits_file.rmvb> -o <final.rmvb>

Also, since you just replaced rmto3260.dll, the next time you encode something like this, it will merge just fine.
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Old 6th September 2003, 17:24   #220  |  Link
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Why can't we do that anymore? Merge 2 files with 2 different maxBitrate?
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