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Old 3rd March 2002, 11:54   #1  |  Link
Actron
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IDEA : If OGG can handle errors in streams, could we use something like vcd ?

Ok heres what im thinking about :

i know, there has been some discussion why not putting avis into an cd track without error correction, just like a (s)vcd does.
This wasnt possible, because the avi format cant handle errors, if they occur.

but now we have ogg, and i read, that it can handle errors, without stopping or crashing. So it should be possible to make use of the 100 additional mbs on a cd, when we dont use error correction, isnīt it ?

greetings

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Old 3rd March 2002, 12:11   #2  |  Link
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should be possible. Someone on another board ( PowerDivX Forum ) postet that he randomly deleted parts of an .ogg file with a hex editor and the parts that were not damaged still played fine.

I want to try to burn an .ogg file like a (S)VCD, too. But I don't have time to do something like this at the moment. Would be interesting to hear if someone else could do it successfully. Btw: when creating an .ogg file to burn on a CD without error correcting I suggest that you set the max. keyframe interval very low ( I would say the value should be as high as the FPS (and not higher or lower) of the video ). Otherwise you *may* lose a couple of seconds when the CD gets damaged.
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Old 3rd March 2002, 12:31   #3  |  Link
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MCF will support mode 2 form 2 ( not sure here ), so you can have 795 MB on one 80 min CD. Dont know about Ogg, maybe Tobias can clarify ...
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Old 3rd March 2002, 21:03   #4  |  Link
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I was the guy swiss cheezing the OGG file and it works just fine so you can indeed do an OGG in 2 of 2. I do alot of silly things like that.
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Old 3rd March 2002, 22:39   #5  |  Link
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How can you burn a CD in Mode2Form2 (?) because I tried it with Nero (that I usually use) and other several programs but by now I only failed. I saw in a forum that someone did it with CDRDAO, but when I downloaded it, it said that is for audio CDs; and I couldn't find a GUI for Windows. I would really like to test if Ogg can correct a certain amount of errors, becuase I find it hard to believe that an error in the header or index could be fixed (does it save a backup of these at the and of the file as I "heared" MCF would?).
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Old 4th March 2002, 04:24   #6  |  Link
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I've used ISO Level2 Mode2 with Nero constantly while burning all my Divx and Xvid encodes. I never had any problems using this mode and wasn't aware that it's not suppose to work with AVI's. I also used this same mode for Ogg files without issues. So are these settings you guys are speaking about?

@Neo
What burning app are you using?
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Old 4th March 2002, 05:17   #7  |  Link
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@ vanos

GUI for CDRDAO.

btw: CDRDAO is good for a lot of things (i'm using it to burn SVCD images and extract/make images of discs, for example)
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Old 4th March 2002, 06:21   #8  |  Link
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Under Windows I mostlty use Nero. Sometimes CDRDAO. Under Linux though every thing almost uses CDRDAO at some point. I have not burned a 2 from 2 disk with an OGG movie. But it should indeed work. Swiss cheezing the video has little effect on it. So CRC and recovery data while nice are not actually necessary. I would prefer it for my AVI though. One or two misplaced bits and your AVI is toast.
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Old 4th March 2002, 13:05   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
I do alot of silly things like that.
Without guys like you and me who try silly things and experiment we wouldn't have all the things we have now . So keep on doing this. I just can't wait for DivX5 to be released to test it against XviD ( after I encoded a bunch of SVCD for a friend This really keeps me from trying new things like burning an .ogg file to a Mode2 Form2 CD. I planned to this even before this thread here was posted ).
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Old 4th March 2002, 20:22   #10  |  Link
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You have not check the front page yet have you.
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Old 4th March 2002, 23:20   #11  |  Link
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@Mozart: Thanx for the GUI. I'll try it.
@MaTTeR: Here's a dumb question: How do you actually write the CD because it my case when it's about to start burning it ejects the CD(-RW 663 MB) saying there is not enought space. I've been trying to put a 701 MB AVI file on it (the CD in mode 2 should have 750+ MB, right?). Is there any trick? I've done everything as usual, only that I selected Mode2/XA in the dialog. Do I have to enable other features? Thanx.
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Old 5th March 2002, 01:49   #12  |  Link
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@Vanos_b

Turn the overburn option on in the Nero prefs which I think is located under the File menu
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Old 5th March 2002, 21:27   #13  |  Link
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Sorry, but it doesn't work. Even with overburn activated (99mins) it sais there is not enought space. I'm using an LG 16/10/40, that otherwose works perfectly. BTW: overburn should write data on the space of leadout, and I don't think it has anyting to do with sqeezing more data in the same data space on the disk by leaving error correction out. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 5th March 2002, 21:39   #14  |  Link
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@Vanos_b

Are you sure your drive supports overburn? It seems new so I'd assume it does. How much data are you trying to write to an xx CD?
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Old 8th March 2002, 22:33   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaTTeR
I've used ISO Level2 Mode2 with Nero constantly while burning all my Divx and Xvid encodes. I never had any problems using this mode and wasn't aware that it's not suppose to work with AVI's. I also used this same mode for Ogg files without issues.
Whaaaaat???

Do you MEAN that are already using 80min CDs at near 800 Mb?
nice is using 2352 byte sectors...
how?

In my technical knowledge I can say that mode 2 form 2 CDs are recognized by common CD readers at low speeds such as 12x-16x, or if they spin at full (50x) speed, in real performance they transfer at relatively low speed (12x-16x).
And also, these security measure is (for me) the reason for this "low" speed transfers: the lack of error checking portion per sector (2352 bytes of data over 2352).
This slow behaviour often happen with Playstation CDs (when you try on your PC), infact I think that almost the totality of these CDs are mode 2 form 2.
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Old 8th March 2002, 22:51   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by unplugged


Whaaaaat???

Do you MEAN that are already using 80min CDs at near 800 Mb?
nice is using 2352 byte sectors...
how?
That's exactly what I mean. Here are my NERO(5.5.7.3) settings while burning to Imation 80min CD's-
ISO Level 2
Mode2/XA
Secondary Volume Descrip-Joliet
Allowed all relaxed ISO restrictions
Character Set-ISO 9660
No Multi-Session
DAO
Finalize CD
CDRW-LiteOn 40x16x10

I'll be honest, I don't really understand all the technical aspects of CD burning. What I do know is when I burn my Xvid's/Divx flicks it works just fine. The CD's have been played back without issue on different CDROM drives. So is this what you call Mode2/Form2?
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Old 8th March 2002, 23:21   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaTTeR

So is this what you call Mode2/Form2?
At this point I'm not sure of its exact name, but I know there is a kind of ISO CD format (mode ? form ?) that permits use of full CD capacity *exclusively* for data by "excluding" CRC/recover data bytes from basical/classical sector scheme.

classical ISO CD format:
sector size 2352 bytes (2048 bytes data, 304 bytes CRC/recover info)
alternate ISO CD format: (VCD?)
sector size 2352 bytes (2352 bytes data, no bytes for CRC/recover info)


P.S.: mode 2 form 2 that you are using is mode2-XA? sorry for my not good technical competence
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Old 9th March 2002, 01:07   #18  |  Link
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what does it say under "compilation" when you're actually burning it? because i'm doing a 750 mb test file now under the specs you listed and it tells me:

Code:
ISO1 (Mode2/XA)                      85:17.43
CD-ROM (ISO)                         855 MB
and gives me an error after 98% burning. and the only way i can even get it to start burning is by forcing overburn to 90 minutes.
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Old 9th March 2002, 01:11   #19  |  Link
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With Imation CD's I usually burn an AVI file of about 712MB and then Nero says something like 8xxMB. Next movie I burn I'll give you more accurate numbers.

Your 755MB file is to large. Try around 710MB and then see what it says.
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Old 9th March 2002, 01:17   #20  |  Link
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i wonder if you're actually burning mode 2 form 2 cds then, or if you're just going into overburn territory. because i think with an 80 min cd-r, it should be able to go up into the upper 700s. has anyone actually gotten 750+ mb on an 80 minute disc?
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