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Old 14th January 2007, 13:17   #21  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
They try to demux it but don't do it properly since they don't fully understand EVOBs since EVOB is an extended/enhanced VOB
in what way does evo differ from mpg?
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Old 14th January 2007, 13:28   #22  |  Link
Olebrumm71
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What audio-stream in departed.evo trailer?

Hi!

@tonyp12: What audio-stream is in the departed.evo trailer you posted an eMule-hash for?

I downloaded the departed.evo trailer and it worked very well to play the file with both video and audio in graphedit, using the Sonic 4.1 DirectShowFilters

(the graph uses the Sonic HD Demuxer , Sonic Cinemaster VideoDecoder 4.1 and Sonic Cinemaster MCE Audio Decoder 4.1 - it also worked for this EVO file to use the Cyberlink Audio Decoder (PDVD7) instead)

(I have Cyberlink PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra HD-DVD version installed if it should make any difference )
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Old 14th January 2007, 13:52   #23  |  Link
orbitlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
BBDemux will leave all of the IME stuff in the video stream when you demux it - or at least that's what it seemed to me. It was corrupted none the less, but only for EVOBs with IME in it.

For the m*.evo file, I made a compare as following
1. Use bbdmux to demux video to file
2. In graphedit, use Sonic HDDemux and file sink filter to save video to file

Two files are 100% match.

Last edited by orbitlee; 15th January 2007 at 01:52.
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Old 14th January 2007, 13:57   #24  |  Link
orbitlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebrumm71 View Post
Hi!

@tonyp12: What audio-stream is in the departed.evo trailer you posted an eMule-hash for?

I downloaded the departed.evo trailer and it worked very well to play the file with both video and audio in graphedit, using the Sonic 4.1 DirectShowFilters

(the graph uses the Sonic HD Demuxer , Sonic Cinemaster VideoDecoder 4.1 and Sonic Cinemaster MCE Audio Decoder 4.1 - it also worked for this EVO file to use the Cyberlink Audio Decoder (PDVD7) instead)

(I have Cyberlink PowerDVD 7.2 Ultra HD-DVD version installed if it should make any difference )

Could you please use PDVD 7.2 to playback the departed.evo and enable "Show information"? PDVD will display the video and audio format.

For m*.evo. In PDVD7.2, playback OK, it is VC1+DD Plus 768Kbps. In graphedit, with Sonic HD Demux, video is ok, graphedit hangs with sonic audio decoder, no audio at all with other audio decoder.

Last edited by orbitlee; 15th January 2007 at 01:53.
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Old 14th January 2007, 16:46   #25  |  Link
Olebrumm71
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When playing back the 'departed trailer.evo' file in PowerDVD 7.2 using 'show information' it shows: DDPlus 5.1 448 kbps

For this file it also works fine to use ffdshow audio-decoder, and when playing the clip, the ffdshow audio-decoder reports 48Khz, 6 channel AC3 (maybe there is some sort of "backwards compatibility" in DD Plus letting older DD decoders also decode DD Plus streams but with "lower quality" ?? )


When playing the clip in fullscreen using PowerDVD 7.2 and hardware-acceleration enabled, the clip plays reasonable smooth on my AMD X2 3800+ with a Geforce 7300Gt graphics card.

But when I build a simple graph using the Cyberlink decoders in graphedit playback is no longer smooth. I guess this may be due to buffering issues or something, especially since I am experiencing stuttering with low CPU-usage. The graph I have used uses a simple File (Async) DirectShow filter. Any recommendations to what else I could use ?
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Old 14th January 2007, 18:00   #26  |  Link
orbitlee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebrumm71 View Post
When playing back the 'departed trailer.evo' file in PowerDVD 7.2 using 'show information' it shows: DDPlus 5.1 448 kbps

For this file it also works fine to use ffdshow audio-decoder, and when playing the clip, the ffdshow audio-decoder reports 48Khz, 6 channel AC3 (maybe there is some sort of "backwards compatibility" in DD Plus letting older DD decoders also decode DD Plus streams but with "lower quality" ?? )


When playing the clip in fullscreen using PowerDVD 7.2 and hardware-acceleration enabled, the clip plays reasonable smooth on my AMD X2 3800+ with a Geforce 7300Gt graphics card.

But when I build a simple graph using the Cyberlink decoders in graphedit playback is no longer smooth. I guess this may be due to buffering issues or something, especially since I am experiencing stuttering with low CPU-usage. The graph I have used uses a simple File (Async) DirectShow filter. Any recommendations to what else I could use ?

Which ffdshow version you are using? Which demux you are using? I can't hear anything with ffdshow audio decoder. :-(
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Old 14th January 2007, 18:34   #27  |  Link
Olebrumm71
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For demuxing I am using the 'Sonic HD Demuxer' from Scenarist 4.1.

For ffdshow I am using 'ffdshow version Nov 8 2006'
(I also tested a graph using AC3Filter v1.01a instead of ffdshow Audio, and that worked as well )


NOTE: I have only tested this using the 'departed trailer.evo' file, which tonyp12 posted an eMule hash for earlier in this thread.

I do not own a hddvd-drive, so I am not able to use HDDVDBackup myself.

@tonyp12: Is the departed trailer.evo file you referred to earlier produced by HDDVDBackup?

Last edited by Olebrumm71; 14th January 2007 at 18:49.
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Old 14th January 2007, 19:58   #28  |  Link
Dethis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebrumm71 View Post
........
@tonyp12: Is the departed trailer.evo file you referred to earlier produced by HDDVDBackup?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...593#post923593
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Old 14th January 2007, 21:02   #29  |  Link
Isochroma
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New posts from some forum somewhere:
Somebody on silu found a solution to playback both vc1 video and dd+ audio in graphedit.
video: evo->sonic hd demux->sonic video decoder->video renderer
audio: evo->intervideo demux->intervideo audio decoder-audio renderer.
intervideo filters are from windvd 8 hd
I tried, it works.

Now the problem is, there are two file sources and two demuxers. if we have a tee fiter which support file source tee, it will looks like

evo->tee->sonic hd demux->...
|---->intervideo demux->...

We should be able to construct this in player instead of graphedit.
I tried windows built-in tee filters, they don't support file source. Any suggestions?
----------------------------------
yup, the Intervideo Demux filter works for the audio part.

This should work in ZoomPlayer if we managed to create a new profile. You just have to create a profile for VC-1 and tell the program to use Sonic Demux + Sonic Video DEcoder and a DDPlus profile and tell the program to use Intervideo Demux + Intervideo Audio Decoder. It should work!
----------------------------------
Holy shit! I got the video part working in Zoomplayer!
----------------------------------
I can also play the audio part in Zoomplayer... but we still have the same problem: I can't make the 2 demuxers work at the same time. That is, I can play audio or video, but not both at the same time. I'm sure it will be solver sooner or later, though.

Last edited by Isochroma; 14th January 2007 at 21:05.
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Old 15th January 2007, 03:17   #30  |  Link
pyrates
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anyone managed to get the sound working yet in windows media player classic?

UPDATE: I downloaded the iso that was linked here of the departed and it played just fine in windvd 8. If I try to play the evo file directly, it seems to only play the video and not the audio, same as mpc. But if I open one of the ifo files, then it does play properly.

Last edited by pyrates; 15th January 2007 at 05:53.
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Old 15th January 2007, 09:34   #31  |  Link
Isochroma
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Tutorial: Perfect AVC EVOB to MKV Remuxing

Note: If you have a VC-1 EVOB, see my Tutorial: Perfect VC-1 EVOB to .AVS Conversion for a frame-accurate method to demux, decode and serve VC-1 EVOBs into Avisynth.
All of you will be very pleased to know that I have in my posession a MKV file with both the original video stream of an .EVO (EVOB) in native AVC1 and audio in AC3. The avc plays with CoreAVC, and the audio with ffdshow.

There are no problems, seeking works absolutely perfectly, everything is a-ok with the streams. Oh, and playback uses at least 30-40% less CPU than playing the .EVO directly!

I will guide all those interested in replicating this achievement.

0. First, we need some software:
1. Graphedit

2. Elecard MPEG-2 Decoder and Streaming Pack

3. DVBPortal HDTV Reference Dump Filter

4. Yamb 1.6.0

5. MKVToolnix 2.0.0
(Important! You must update your MKVToolnix installation by copying the new files from the latest update package into your MKVToolnix folders, or the output fps will be wrong due to a bug in the 2.0.0 release)
1. We start by demultiplexing the AVC video stream to an elementary .264 file:


To the left, we see the property sheet for the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer which, while not capable of reading the audio stream, can see the video stream. Connected to its output pin we find the secret sauce for my processes: the magic DVBPortal HDTV Dump filter. Make sure you name the file with a .264 extension.

2. Now we want to get that .264 Elementary Stream into a nice MKV. So the first thing one might do, is test the newly minted MKVToolnix Matroska Muxer 2.0.0, which is freshly imbued with AVC-ES support.

Alas, it works but the resultant MKV file is partially broken, and plays with all kinds of weird artifacts. So we are left with the tried and true Yamb, which does not disappoint!


First and most importantly, we have to make sure to check the Enable Import Settings box, because the AVC-ES doesn't have a framerate. You'll have to have some idea what it is, because in the next step we'll enter it. A good place to start is always 23.976.


In the above picture, in the Mux tab the Add button has been clicked, and the saved .264 file opened from a generic Open dialog window. After that happens, you are presented with the MP4Box Import Settings window, where you must enter a number in the Force FrameRate box; pictured here a value of 23.976 has been entered.

Press Ok on that button, then in the main window set a path/filename.mp4 in the Ouput line (last field). Then click Mux. An .mp4 file should appear in the location specified.

3. Next we grab the audio stream, using the Sonic demuxer this time:


Again, we use the magic DVBPortal HDTV Dump Filter to write the .ac3 file. Remember, this is something a bit more than normal AC3, it is really Dolby Digital Plus. Strangely, this is the only way to make ffdshow or Gabest's internal (MPC) filter work perfectly. Believe me, I tried every other way - even the Sonic audio decoder wouldn't work with other methods.

Notice the little yellow clock inside the DVBPortal filter box. The Sonic HD Demuxer doesn't set timestamps on the frames it delivers, so you can't yet properly use it to demux video. Presumeably, it won't do this for audio either; smart sabotage or corner-cutting minimalist programming? I'll let you be the judge. Yet, the DVBPortal filter somehow manages to do without; perhaps it is adding the missing timestamps? Those in the know may reply to enlighten me on the topic.

4. Mux.


Congratulations, you're done! Now pop some popcorn and watch the flick...

This method was easy because there's lots of support for de/remultiplexing AVC streams in free and paid software.

However, VC-1 remains the gaping hole in this process; the example trailer used here is atypical. MPEG-2 should be pretty easy, at least.

To finish, some links to the development processes which are most likely to yield a VC-1 bridge:
How to demux VC1 elementary stream from WMV file?
Mux VC1 on WMV
Muxing VC-1 in ASF
Muxing and demuxing vc-1
The first idea is to use the DVBDF to get a VC-1 ES, then using the nascent tool(s), mux to wmv. Then once we have WMV, either Gabest's or Haali's MKV DS muxers will put it into MKV. Now is the time to visit the threads below and help/encourage the developers to move in this direction; also, I will suggest to the developer of MKVToolnix to add VC-1 support.

The benefits of MKV encapsulation are significant: greater compatibility, smaller size, far better performance, easy manipulation, etc. Matroska is ultimately the Main St. of containers, so if we can get those juicy streams out of their cliquey container and into the common man's space, then many more possibilities will open up.

PS. Please PM me if you need more detailed instructions/help with the software used in this guide.

Last edited by Isochroma; 20th January 2007 at 11:09.
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Old 15th January 2007, 10:29   #32  |  Link
woah!
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the elecard demultiplexer might work on that rogue evo trailer, but it doesnt work here on any evo dumped from a proper disc. is there anywhere else other than emule i can try out that file to see if that is correct?

Last edited by woah!; 15th January 2007 at 10:32.
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Old 15th January 2007, 19:16   #33  |  Link
Isochroma
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When posting problems, please, please provide more detailed references!

When you say it 'doesn't work' what do you mean? Exactly what happens in GraphEdit?

Also, what's the video stream format, AVC, VC-1 or MPEG-2? The process above will only work for AVC video streams.
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Old 15th January 2007, 19:21   #34  |  Link
mixanobios
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as i see it the problem now is muxing vc-1 to mkv. i have been able to demux vc-1 with bbdemux and audio with sonic hd demuxer but i cannot mux vc-1 into mkv. i hope mkv developers have some free time
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Old 15th January 2007, 20:06   #35  |  Link
DeathMonk
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Hmm.. Why not just convert the vc-1, etc to an uncompressed format with graphedit, the do what you want with it.

[first post yay]
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Old 15th January 2007, 21:17   #36  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
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Hmm.. Why not just convert the vc-1, etc to an uncompressed format with graphedit, the do what you want with it.
Because uncompressed is much too space hungry. You would have to reencode the video in the end. And reencoding is always a bad idea for image quality. VC-1 is a quite good encoder. So there's no real reason to reencode except if you want to have a smaller file size with less image quality.
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Old 15th January 2007, 23:09   #37  |  Link
Warren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post
Again, we use the magic DVBPortal HDTV Dump Filter to write the .ac3 file. Remember, this is something a bit more than normal AC3, it is really Dolby Digital Plus. Strangely, this is the only way to make ffdshow or Gabest's internal (MPC) filter work perfectly. Believe me, I tried every other way - even the Sonic audio decoder wouldn't work with other methods.
Are you sure this trailer actually uses DD+? Trying your steps here doesn't produce an ac3 file that is compatible with ac3filter.
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Old 15th January 2007, 23:25   #38  |  Link
Isochroma
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Please, reread my guide. I'm using ffdshow's ac3 decoder... your statement is itself revealing. If the file was a normal AC3, it would be compatible with AC3Filter, wouldn't it?

So yes, the file produced is an E-AC3, and it so happens that ffdshow audio decoder filter can handle it, while AC3Filter cannot.

Last edited by Isochroma; 15th January 2007 at 23:27.
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Old 16th January 2007, 00:14   #39  |  Link
Gradius
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What about subtitles? They're a must to me.

Any solution for Dolby DD Plus too ? I believe any 6.1, 7.1 (DTS HD too), will have some problem, right?
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Old 16th January 2007, 00:55   #40  |  Link
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i think mkv format must be able to mux all hddvd-blueray formats
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