Scenarist 4.1 avc/vc1 assets - Page 4

chadamir · 25th December 2006, 05:46

Well do they know what to add to x264 or is it all hddvd spec that no one has access to.

Malow · 25th December 2006, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadamir

It's possible, but they have to follow a standard like everyone else. It's more likely they have one of the few encoders that can meet the standard.

scenarist should come with a demuxing tool or accept program streams....

chadamir · 25th December 2006, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malow

scenarist should come with a demuxing tool or accept program streams....

What we actually need is for someone to come out with a tool that checks if the stream is spec (which I believe there is, not sure) and we need a tool that can properly mux that into a format that works. Mainconcept's encoder works, but you're locked in. Also, cinevision probably has a demuxing tool.

Golgot13 · 25th December 2006, 23:50

Hi all,

First, x264 can not make compliant H264 file (play fine on HD DVD player from Toshiba or X360).
There is some problem with VBV, SEI,... I test it the last summer (you can see my post this forum and x264 developper known it).

Second, there is lot of H264 software compliant with HD DVD :
- Mainconcept software (because Sonic with CineVision use Mainconcept SDK)
- Ateme software because you have access at all options
- KDDI software (KDDI company work with MemoryTech)
- Tiger AVC from Thomson (developped for HDDVD and BD)
- Fraunhofer software (all H264 options)

Third, there is only, now, PEP encoder from Microsoft which can make compliant VC1 video file.
All other solutions from Microsoft can not make compliant VC1 file.
All VC1 video file in HD DVD sell on the market was encoded with Microsoft software (may be 1/100
or 2/100 was made with Inlet tool, I'm not sure).

Last, all HD DVD on market (HD DVD with HDi function) was made with MemoryTech software
(98/100, may be 99/100). There were lot of problem with Sonic tool (correct now) to do compliant HD DVD.
To test the compliance of video file you can use DCA software.
And to test HD DVD disk compliance, you can use MemoryTech/Toshiba software.

Golgot13

Sagittaire · 25th December 2006, 23:58

Here the compliant setting for HDDVD/BD compliant stream:
HDDVD use MPEG4 AVC HP@L4.1:
- for the profil: CABAC, 8*8dct, inloop, CQM, wpred, Pref, Bref
- for the level: Max GOP at 0.6006 sec, max adaptative bframe at 2, max reference frame at 4 for P and 3 for B, max motion vector lenght at 512 pixels, max bitrate at 29.4 Mbps, cpb at 30000 Kbits

Sonic scenarist accept only elementary stream:
- .264, .h264 ... for MPEG4 AVC
- .m2v, .m2p ... for MPEG2
- .vc1 or something like that ... for VC1

x264 produce perfect compliant stream but there are not good information in the bitstream.
Actualy you can't use x264 for HDDVD/BD multiplexing ... :-(

chadamir · 26th December 2006, 00:12

Sagi, how much modification would be needed to make x264 compliant?

Sagittaire · 26th December 2006, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadamir

Sagi, how much modification would be needed to make x264 compliant?

hmmm ...

1) x264 fail to respect vbv setting in multipass mode, you must use CBR mode for that.

2) For bitstream:
- HRD parameters
- EOS code
- SEI parameters

chadamir · 26th December 2006, 07:05

So I've done some test encodes and I've noticed that playback in windvd is choppy and weird. When I mux to mp4 it's fine though (as opposed to scenarist). I wonder if it's windvd or scenarist.

Edit: Not sure if its cause it was a 24 fps source and I converted it to 29.97 or what. 25 fps h264 (reencoded) from european broadcast is perfect at 1080p.

Edit 2: 29.97 source worked fine. =/

Edit 3: Ok the original source I was talking about worked better with tomsmocomp plugin instead of anything else. I need to try a whole movie though before I can comment for sure.

MuTeK · 29th December 2006, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malow

elecard uses the same encoding engine, but i can't make a compilant stream

try, this prifile.

dvdboy · 29th December 2006, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadamir

So I've done some test encodes and I've noticed that playback in windvd is choppy and weird. When I mux to mp4 it's fine though (as opposed to scenarist). I wonder if it's windvd or scenarist.

I've just encoded some content with MainConcept 2.1, and finally managed to get all the settings correct for a succesful import into Scenarist 4.01 SCA.

My footage was captured from NTSC Digi, and so encoded as 720x480 video, with an average of 6Mbps and a max of 8Mbps.

Audio was 192Kbps AC-3

Files play back fine on the PC, as elementary streams, but I get the weird choppy playback like chadamir when playing back on a Toshiba HD-A1 with latest firmware.

I've done two encodes to rule out a field dominance issue.

Bitrate is low enough that it shouldn't be causing problems...

Could Scenarist be only fully compatible with the Cinevision encoder? Could this be some kind of funky muxing issue with Scenarist?

Any other thoughts?

chadamir · 29th December 2006, 20:07

What frame rate? If the footage is interlaced do not deinterlace it, rather encode it as interlaced.

Susana · 29th December 2006, 21:58

What did you used to burn? In which burning mode ?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

¿

Quote:

4. Burn your HD DVD folder to a DVD recordable using Nero Burning ROM.

Technique 1 - preferred (works with Nero version 7):

(Contributed by pteittinen.)

a. Launch Nero Burning ROM and select "DVD-ROM (UDF)" on the left side of the screen (you may need to scroll down).
b. Under the "Multisession" tab, select the "No Multisession" radio button.
b. Click on the "UDF" tab.
c. In the "Options" pull-down (or the checkbox under "Advanced," depending on your version of Nero), select "Enable Xbox (TM) compatibility mode."
d. Disregard any warnings and continue.
e. Click "New."
f. Drop the HVDVD_TS folder you just created into the root directory of the compilation (column on the far left).
g. Burn the disc by clicking on the Disc/Lit Match icon at the top.

?

dvdboy · 29th December 2006, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadamir

What frame rate? If the footage is interlaced do not deinterlace it, rather encode it as interlaced.

The footage was 29.97, interlaced so I tried both top field and bottom field dominance on the encoding. No De-Interlacing.

Quote:

What did you used to burn? In which burning mode ?

.

I used Nero Burning Rom > DVD VIDEO with a dummy IFO / BUP in the VIDEO_TS folder. I'm not in work now, but I will try the process you listed on tuesday.

I'm running Scenarist 4.01, and I'm wondering if there is an update because this does seem like some strange muxing bug. Does anyone know what the latest version is?

chadamir · 30th December 2006, 01:37

I misread. I don't have a standalone. Try having scenarist make an image and then burn the image. I don't think you should be burning as dvd.

dvdboy · 30th December 2006, 03:01

It's a 'hack' I'll grant you, but the disc is recognised as a HD DVD in the player.

Chadamir, did you manage to fix your playback issues?

chadamir · 30th December 2006, 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvdboy

It's a 'hack' I'll grant you, but the disc is recognised as a HD DVD in the player.

Chadamir, did you manage to fix your playback issues?

Yea, it was the deinterlacing. Also, don't rule out the media.

bond · 30th December 2006, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuTeK

try, this prifile.

anyone tried those settings? Malow?

Sagittaire · 30th December 2006, 19:17

Here if you want a 1080p HDDVD image demo at only 6Mbps:
http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d4956...f/Departed.iso

Encoding with H264 (Elecard beta) and quality is really high (more than 47 dB for OPSNR)
Audio is simple DD at 448 Kbps.
Mux by Scenarist (but not my work for muxing part ... I don't have Scenarist).

With H264 it will be possible to put compliant HDDVD structure file on simple DVD9 with very high quality ("HDDVD like quality"):
+ Video: H264 1080p at 6-8 Mbps
+ Audio: Multiple DD 5.1 at 448 Kbps or DD+ 7.1 at 640 Kbps
+ avdanced HDDVD menu, chapters, subtitles

bond · 30th December 2006, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittaire

With H264 it will be possible to put compliant HDDVD structure file on simple DVD9 with very high quality ("HDDVD like quality"):
+ Video: H264 1080p at 6-8 Mbps
+ Audio: Multiple DD 5.1 at 448 Kbps or DD+ 7.1 at 640 Kbps
+ avdanced HDDVD menu, chapters, subtitles

the question is whether the hddvd specs allow 1080p on dvd media or only normal D1 dvd resolutions...

dvdboy · 30th December 2006, 20:00

I've certainly done MPEG-2 1080i for a tradeshow using Ulead's Movie Factory 5, so there should be no reason for doing H264.

Certainly, at the moment with the lack of HD DVD-R media, authoring houses are having to cut their projects up to test parts on DVD media.

25th December 2006, 23:50	#64 \| Link
Golgot13 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand StrateGuerre Posts: 362	Hi all, First, x264 can not make compliant H264 file (play fine on HD DVD player from Toshiba or X360). There is some problem with VBV, SEI,... I test it the last summer (you can see my post this forum and x264 developper known it). Second, there is lot of H264 software compliant with HD DVD : - Mainconcept software (because Sonic with CineVision use Mainconcept SDK) - Ateme software because you have access at all options - KDDI software (KDDI company work with MemoryTech) - Tiger AVC from Thomson (developped for HDDVD and BD) - Fraunhofer software (all H264 options) Third, there is only, now, PEP encoder from Microsoft which can make compliant VC1 video file. All other solutions from Microsoft can not make compliant VC1 file. All VC1 video file in HD DVD sell on the market was encoded with Microsoft software (may be 1/100 or 2/100 was made with Inlet tool, I'm not sure). Last, all HD DVD on market (HD DVD with HDi function) was made with MemoryTech software (98/100, may be 99/100). There were lot of problem with Sonic tool (correct now) to do compliant HD DVD. To test the compliance of video file you can use DCA software. And to test HD DVD disk compliance, you can use MemoryTech/Toshiba software. Golgot13 Last edited by Golgot13; 26th December 2006 at 11:51.

25th December 2006, 23:58	#65 \| Link
Sagittaire Testeur de codecs Join Date: May 2003 Location: France Posts: 2,484	Here the compliant setting for HDDVD/BD compliant stream: HDDVD use MPEG4 AVC HP@L4.1: - for the profil: CABAC, 88dct, inloop, CQM, wpred, Pref, Bref - for the level:* Max GOP at 0.6006 sec, max adaptative bframe at 2, max reference frame at 4 for P and 3 for B, max motion vector lenght at 512 pixels, max bitrate at 29.4 Mbps, cpb at 30000 Kbits Sonic scenarist accept only elementary stream: - .264, .h264 ... for MPEG4 AVC - .m2v, .m2p ... for MPEG2 - .vc1 or something like that ... for VC1 x264 produce perfect compliant stream but there are not good information in the bitstream. Actualy you can't use x264 for HDDVD/BD multiplexing ... :-( __________________ Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9 Last edited by Sagittaire; 26th December 2006 at 00:19.

26th December 2006, 07:05	#68 \| Link
chadamir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 92	So I've done some test encodes and I've noticed that playback in windvd is choppy and weird. When I mux to mp4 it's fine though (as opposed to scenarist). I wonder if it's windvd or scenarist. Edit: Not sure if its cause it was a 24 fps source and I converted it to 29.97 or what. 25 fps h264 (reencoded) from european broadcast is perfect at 1080p. Edit 2: 29.97 source worked fine. =/ Edit 3: Ok the original source I was talking about worked better with tomsmocomp plugin instead of anything else. I need to try a whole movie though before I can comment for sure. Last edited by chadamir; 26th December 2006 at 09:01.

30th December 2006, 19:17	#78 \| Link
Sagittaire Testeur de codecs Join Date: May 2003 Location: France Posts: 2,484	Here if you want a 1080p HDDVD image demo at only 6Mbps: http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d4956...f/Departed.iso Encoding with H264 (Elecard beta) and quality is really high (more than 47 dB for OPSNR) Audio is simple DD at 448 Kbps. Mux by Scenarist (but not my work for muxing part ... I don't have Scenarist). With H264 it will be possible to put compliant HDDVD structure file on simple DVD9 with very high quality ("HDDVD like quality"): + Video: H264 1080p at 6-8 Mbps + Audio: Multiple DD 5.1 at 448 Kbps or DD+ 7.1 at 640 Kbps + avdanced HDDVD menu, chapters, subtitles __________________ Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9 Last edited by Sagittaire; 30th December 2006 at 19:20.

25th December 2006, 05:46	#61 \| Link
chadamir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 92	Well do they know what to add to x264 or is it all hddvd spec that no one has access to.

26th December 2006, 00:12	#66 \| Link
chadamir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 92	Sagi, how much modification would be needed to make x264 compliant?

29th December 2006, 20:07	#71 \| Link
chadamir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 92	What frame rate? If the footage is interlaced do not deinterlace it, rather encode it as interlaced.

30th December 2006, 01:37	#74 \| Link
chadamir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 92	I misread. I don't have a standalone. Try having scenarist make an image and then burn the image. I don't think you should be burning as dvd.

30th December 2006, 03:01	#75 \| Link
dvdboy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 191	It's a 'hack' I'll grant you, but the disc is recognised as a HD DVD in the player. Chadamir, did you manage to fix your playback issues?

30th December 2006, 20:00	#80 \| Link
dvdboy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 191	I've certainly done MPEG-2 1080i for a tradeshow using Ulead's Movie Factory 5, so there should be no reason for doing H264. Certainly, at the moment with the lack of HD DVD-R media, authoring houses are having to cut their projects up to test parts on DVD media.