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Old 22nd September 2006, 12:06   #421  |  Link
zoinbergs
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Well neuron.. I believe I'm gonna stick with DGPulldown flags to go from PAL to NTSC!

I tried doing the conversion the long way like you had talked about.. and boy was it funny looking! I don't know what happened exactly.. but a lot of my frames turned out to be blended ones (from the de-interlace before resize to 720x480 I presume).. that were then interlaced again (because I chose to encode that way!)

WHAT A MESS I told myself, and decided to scratch the whole idea. I like flags very much so now.
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Old 22nd September 2006, 13:18   #422  |  Link
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I believe Telecide() would shift it back, correct? Or would there need to be a parameter to insert in those there parenthesis?
Correct. Please refer to the documentation for parameter descriptions. Often the defaults you get if you don't specify anything are fine.

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Originally Posted by zoinbergs View Post
I tried doing the conversion the long way like you had talked about.. and boy was it funny looking! I don't know what happened exactly.. but a lot of my frames turned out to be blended ones (from the de-interlace before resize to 720x480 I presume).. that were then interlaced again (because I chose to encode that way!)
Of course, if you have interlaced video and you don't mind deinterlacing it, then sure, just apply DGPulldown. But if you want to change the rate ofinterlaced material while keeping it interlaced (full temporal content), then the long method can be used. You got blends because you used blend mode when you deinterlaced. But DO NOT deinterlace progressive content; use a field matcher like Telecide() to realign the progressive frames, then apply DGPulldown.

Last edited by Guest; 22nd September 2006 at 13:20.
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Old 29th September 2006, 13:31   #423  |  Link
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Well neuron2, I've definitely mastered the art of DGPulldown! No more blended fields either, thanks to the wonderful Telecide paramater finally being used correctly! (The lack thereof was indeed my problem).

Here's something for you to ponder though! You'd better sit down for this one.........

Okay, so I'll try and keep this short! But please forgive me if I write too much..

So after running DGPulldown (25 --> 29.97) on a 720x480 25fps Progressive video, I got what I had expected, an NTSC DVD-compliant MPEG2. The newly flagged video passed right through my TMPGEnc DVD Author v1.6.34.89 just fine, also what I had expected.

But when I ran it through my TMPGEnc DVD Author v2.1.9.90, it crashed it! I mean, it totally crashed it. I got as far as the where the actual DVD authoring takes place, but after writing the menu, it said it failed to write the VOB.

After that I tried burning a previously known-to-be-good video, and that had crashed it too! So I'm pretty sure the unusual flagging pattern did something to the entire program, disabling burning capabilities altogether.

So, I uninstalled the program, restarted my computer, and then reinstalled the program. STILL NO BURNING CAPABILITIES. DGPulldown's flags I thought had permanently disabled my TMPGEnc DVD Author!

I decided to uninstall v2.1.9.90 again, and go ahead and install my old trusty v2.1.7.88. Low and behold, it burned my known-to-be-good video with no problems! BUT, as soon as I tried the flagged video, it crashed that version too.

So both versions were rendered useless, no matter how many uninstalls and reinstalls I did of each.

So that got me thinking.. maybe TMPGEnc DVD Author doesn't actually "uninstall" its registry entries when you remove the program from your computer. Sure, the registry entries were removed physically (from the Software/Pegasys, Inc./TMPGEnc DVD Author v2.0 folders in various users and the local machine), but everytime I reinstalled each version, I got the same error message when trying to burn perfectly good MPEG2 files (not the flagged ones).

The reason I think this is, is because I finally did a hard uninstall, and deleted the registry entries myself, along with the program folder in C:\Program Files too. Before I was going through Add/Remove Programs in my control panel, but that way wasn't working, so I thought I'd get creative!

So, after the hard uninstall, I reinstalled (from scratch you could say -- registry entries and all) the latest version of 2.1.9.90.... and IT WORKED! My burning capabilies were back, for compliant videos that is, but of course, still not for flagged videos.

What I'm wondering is if TMPGEnc DVD Author v2.0 (both revisions) just move their registry entries somewhere else when "uninstalled." The fact everything worked after I hand-removed the entries just boggles my mind!

Alright, so anyways, the moral of the story is that DGPulldown is NOT compatible with TMPGEnc DVD Author v2.1.9.90 OR v2.1.7.88 in any way, shape or form. But with your suggestion about using Honor Pulldown Flags in DGIndex, I'm definitely still a happy camper when I rencode my videos using the newly hard-telecined material!

I thought you'd might like to know this though, neuron2. Maybe there's something you can do about it? I'm not concerned about the issue though, if that's what you're thinking. I'm VERY satisfied with your wonderful program DGMPGDec! Your work is flat out brilliant, and I commend you for it.

It seems to me like you're ahead of the game, and feeble little programs like TMPGEnc DVD Author just can't keep up with you.
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Old 29th September 2006, 13:48   #424  |  Link
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The pulldown is perfectly legal and normal MPEG2 syntax. If DVD Author can't accept it, then seek support from TMPGEnc. I haven't heard this from anyone else though.
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Old 29th September 2006, 19:41   #425  |  Link
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
The pulldown is perfectly legal and normal MPEG2 syntax. If DVD Author can't accept it, then seek support from TMPGEnc. I haven't heard this from anyone else though.

That is precisely what I think too! Perfectly legal MPEG2 syntax.

I wasn't implying that something was wrong with your DGPulldown, was I? Because the program is brilliant.

I'll have to indeed haggle some TMPGEnc DVD Author customer support representative to see what he might know on the subject! Chances are he knows little though. Isn't "customer service" an oxy-moron? Just kiddin...

Thanks for all your hard work though, man. In my opinion, you're a total genius, and your work is priceless! I don't know what I'd do without the technological advancements you have made in this community. Please keep up the good work!
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Old 3rd October 2006, 20:47   #426  |  Link
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zoinbergs

Is there some good reason to upgrade from TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6.xx to 2.1.xx, support for subtitles perhaps?

I am running 1.6.xx and find it just fine for most applications but I have to turn to Muxman when adding subtitles.

Also, if you use DGPulldown to convert a 23.976 file to a 29.97 file, does TDA still crash? Or is it just the flagging from PAL to NTSC that does it?

Paul
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Old 8th October 2006, 05:40   #427  |  Link
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Is there some good reason to upgrade from TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6.xx to 2.1.xx, support for subtitles perhaps?
I use v2.1.9.90 for the FANTASTIC menu navigation features. I arrange pretty weird menus for my DVDs, and in v1.6 it doesn't show how each button is accessed (using left-right-up-down buttons).. and too many times have I created orphan buttons that can't be accessed with a remote!

Fortunately v2 has the layer to show arrows (backward and forward) from each button to the next, completely eliminating such a problem. I simply arrange my buttons based on the arrows.

I'm not sure about subtitle support, but I'll look into it for ya!


Quote:
Also, if you use DGPulldown to convert a 23.976 file to a 29.97 file, does TDA still crash? Or is it just the flagging from PAL to NTSC that does it?
I haven't tried 23.976-->29.97 yet, as I have not been in contact with true film footage for awhile.

Actually, I take that back. I have some film footage that already has the flags in it (from the producers)... does anybody know a quick and easy way to strip these flags off so I can add them via DGPulldown? That'll give me a sample to try with TDA2.1 then.

I hope it's only my system that may have this incompatibility issue, but I doubt it.. I am a freak when it comes to perfectly running PC systems. I very rarely run into any sort of problems.

I've contacted TMPGEnc for any light they may be able to shed on the situation, but I haven't received any e-mail back yet.
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Old 8th October 2006, 06:37   #428  |  Link
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By setting a custom pulldown of 29.97->23.976, you should be able to strip the flags and keep from introducing more. It probably only works if the underlying content is pure film, and might not work at all. ymmv.

I wonder if dgindex can do it with ignore pulldown flags or force film, when extracting m2v while processing.
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Old 8th October 2006, 12:52   #429  |  Link
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Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
By setting a custom pulldown of 29.97->23.976, you should be able to strip the flags and keep from introducing more. It probably only works if the underlying content is pure film, and might not work at all. ymmv.
I don't believe this method works.. I tried it. Then again, I'm using DGPulldown. Perhaps the old fashioned regular Pulldown.exe would work?

Quote:
I wonder if dgindex can do it with ignore pulldown flags or forced film, when extracting m2v while processing.
I just tried these two methods as well. DGIndex only ignores the flags in its newly created *.d2v project. The demuxing just passes the original video through, flags and all.


Hmm... I'm almost positive there's another thread I need to find that explains flag stripping in detail! No sense in getting off topic in here.. we're dealing with PAL-->NTSC conversions, right?

Time for some research. =)
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Old 8th October 2006, 15:59   #430  |  Link
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You don't have to strip the flags first. Just run DGPulldown and it will overwrite the flags with the new ones.

If you do want to remove pulldown with DGPulldown, you set the source rate to the destination rate. E.g., 23.976 -> 23.976. As described in the help file.
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Old 8th October 2006, 19:24   #431  |  Link
zoinbergs
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
You don't have to strip the flags first. Just run DGPulldown and it will overwrite the flags with the new ones.
I had a feeling it would do such wonders..

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If you do want to remove pulldown with DGPulldown, you set the source rate to the destination rate. E.g., 23.976 -> 23.976. As described in the help file.
Brilliant! I must have overlooked that in the help file. BTW, your explanations of (practically) everything you write about are something of another world.. You make is so easy to learn this stuff! I really do appreciate the help you have given the a/v community!



Alright.... time to go test some material....



And I'm back! Looks like DGPulldown's flags using 23.976-->29.97 are working in TDA2.1 -- so I presume at this point that TDA doesn't know what to do with irregular flag patterns aside from 3:2 pulldown.

Oh well I say.. as long as DGIndex keeps honoring the flags, I'm set!

And that concludes our little experiment for today...
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Old 10th October 2006, 12:47   #432  |  Link
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Dear neuron2,

I have working for hours trying to figure out the parameters to use for Telecide().

I know there's a riduculously easy answer to this question too.. of which I'm gonna hit myself upside the head for if you answer it! Hopefully you can give me a quick and dirty rundown? Thanks in advance if you can!


Okay so here's my problem:

I'm trying to phase shift a 25i clip, that has sections in it that were derived from film. It's a promotional video for a movie (that was released in 23.976p), and it was released in PAL @ 25i--phase shifted.

The previous encoder did a very good job to phase shift everything equally.. which means that I want to keep ALL the original frames, and simply match every field with the next one.. no matter what source it was derived from.

While using the default parameters for Telecide() I'm getting some mismatches, mostly in the film footage sections of the clip. Understandable I believe, since there was prolly some 24-->25 pulldown going on in the initial creation of the clip.

So I don't want Telecide to try and guess what progressive frames to restore (because it's trying to create 24fps again).. I just want a good old blind field matching and nothing more. Just every field with the next one.. consistently throughout the enitre clip.

Do you happen to know of the correct parameters I can set to achieve such results? I'm guessing that it's gotta do something with setting the pattern guidence to mode 2, and the gthresh to 0.0? Or have I got it backwards?

Here's what I need in terms of matching:

Original =

[.a][ab][bc][cd][de][ef][fg][gh][hi][....


Strictly & Consistently Shifted (throughout the entire clip):

[aa][bb][cc][dd][ee][ff][gg][hh][ii][....


No pattern to match other than perfectly phase shifted 25i. (I'm trying to get the FILM sections to undergo the same phase shifting, no matter what.)


Now I believe I wouldn't need any post-processing because the FILM footage that was used isn't interlaced. Actually, none of the clip is true interlaced material, I don't think. It's all just been phase shifted from an entirely progressive source. There's no patterns needing to be matched, nothing.

Also, I'm a little confused about dthresh and vthresh. If I am correct, dthresh picks out the interlaced frames of the clip for use in post-processing, and vthresh decides how much of those picked frames to deinterlace after that?

Thank you SO MUCH for any help you may be able to provide me! I'm trying my best to understand your tutorials and guides (which has gotten me incredibly far too by the way..... I think I've just hit a small road block with this clip, that's all.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Sincerely,
William

Last edited by zoinbergs; 11th October 2006 at 04:23.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:26   #433  |  Link
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If it's a consistent phase shift then there is no reason to match fields.

separatefields()
trim(1,0)
weave()

No field matcher is perfect because they rely on heuristics to compare the fields.

BTW, this query is off-topic here. You should have started a new thread.
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Old 10th October 2006, 14:45   #434  |  Link
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Ahhhhh! I knew it had to be as simple as that!!!! Thank you SO much for the insight!


Quote:
BTW, this query is off-topic here. You should have started a new thread.
I guess I forgot to tell you that I'm phase shifting the 25i clip so that I can have a progressive source to conduct a pulldown to 29.97 with.

But a new thread would have had the same effect, huh?

Don't worry... I'm a learning...
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Old 11th October 2006, 14:45   #435  |  Link
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DGPulldown increasing video length?

Is there an issue with DGPulldown 25 -> 29.97 on HCenc (0.18) encoded mpeg-2 files? The reason I ask is this; I have an NTSC capture of a UK broadcast which I've restored to 25 fps. It's in anamorphic widescreen format (720x480) and I run it through HCEnc with the following switches:

profile: best
dc prec: 10
aspect ratio: 16:9
scene change: checked (all others unchecked, including pulldown, interlaced etc)
GOP length: 18 (also tried 15)

The length of the resulting m2v file is: 43:41:120
After running it through DGPulldown (1.0.9) the length increases to: 45:30:08

At first I thought it might be a GOP issue, so I tried 15 as well with the same results.

I've successfully used this procedure many times with TMPGEnc encoded files without issue. Can anyone speculate on what might be causing this?

Thanks
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Old 11th October 2006, 16:27   #436  |  Link
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How are you determining the length of the m2v files?
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Old 11th October 2006, 16:46   #437  |  Link
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Using DVD Architect, however I get the same results (albeit less accurate) if I open them in Zoom Player.
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Old 11th October 2006, 18:18   #438  |  Link
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Try making a project using DGIndex on the pulled down M2V and then do Parse D2V to get the running time (see bottom of log). What is it?
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Old 12th October 2006, 05:07   #439  |  Link
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@neuron2: Thanks for the tip (and the apps). Both the original and pulldown .m2v files are 43 minutes, 41 seconds. Finally some sanity! The issue here is with DVD Architect whereas using the same files with DVD Author worked perfectly.

Thanks!
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Old 4th December 2006, 12:04   #440  |  Link
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Yesterday I merged in mencoder's mpeg muxer (in svn) neuron2's generalized teleciner code.
Thanks neuron2!
P.S. some comment in the source code (especially in the generate function) wouldn't really hurt
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