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Old 5th May 2006, 09:34   #61  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
So it is 14 various samples, with different kinds of artifacts not a single sample.
Yes but ABR is always better, so we then use CBR instead right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
Would be good to have a listening test actually
I am always on
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Old 5th May 2006, 09:40   #62  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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Yes but ABR is always better, so we then use CBR instead right.
It is always better, but if you take a look at the test results of 48 kbps tests, you would find out that the relative difference was smaller than relative difference between Nero ABR and CT CBR.

This does not mean too much, except the fact that Nero ABR scored little bit better than CT CBR, but not better enough to be called statistically significant.

If you wish to test Nero CBR vs CT CBR - please go on But I personally do not see too much point in such test - I dunno who would use inferior mode (CBR) when there is better mode available (ABR) - except for streaming, of course.
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Old 5th May 2006, 09:49   #63  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
This does not mean too much, except the fact that Nero ABR scored little bit better than CT CBR, but not better enough to be called statistically significant.
No is much better in scores, but in practice it is. I am not participate in this test, but i listen all of this samples and i can only say that nero sounds better than CT in all cases. Sound like encoded in much bigger rate about 56,64kbs.

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Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
If you wish to test Nero CBR vs CT CBR - please go on But I personally do not see too much point in such test - I dunno who would use inferior mode (CBR) when there is better mode available (ABR) - except for streaming, of course.
I think to new public test, if you want to find right winner. in other case like you say this no have sense. I think that will be Orban very fast add answer for this nero step
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Old 5th May 2006, 09:54   #64  |  Link
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@Ivan Dimkovic why i always get oversize when use boost. Bigger boost bigger oversize. In CT i use doble bigger bost newer get oversize.
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Old 5th May 2006, 09:55   #65  |  Link
GmorG McRoth
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Hi I just downloaded updated encoder, could you explain why in package are 5 exes? 3 in win32 folder and 2 in root. what is diffrent in those 2 in root? are they there by accident?
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:04   #66  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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@Ivan Dimkovic why i always get oversize when use boost. Bigger boost bigger oversize. In CT i use doble bigger bost newer get oversize.
I don't understand what exactly do you mean:

- What bit-rate mode are you using? (abr/cbr/vbr/2-pass)

If you are using anything else than CBR expect the bit rate to change with the psychoacoustic properties of the signal - if your 'boost' operation increased the volume of the file, it could also mean than some parts that were judged to be below the threshold of hearing (and, hence, not coded) are now coded.

- CT is a Constant Bit Rate encoder - you can encode digital silence and you will still get the same size - if you want to use the same mode in Nero - use the -cbr switch, and the results are going to be exactly the same.

@GmorG McRoth, it seems exes were copied to two locations, they are the same - we'll replace this asap.
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:09   #67  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
- CT is a Constant Bit Rate encoder - you can encode digital silence and you will still get the same size - if you want to use the same mode in Nero - use the -cbr switch, and the results are going to be exactly the same.
I am now encoded ac3(6ch) to mp4(6ch) via CT @ 96kbs HE and i get 88MB of final filesize, which is calculated by calculator from megui for that bitrate.

I do a same thing with nero using -cbr switch as you recommend and i get 97MB.

Boost applyed is +4.5dB.

I aslo tryed with 2pass mode. his downed file size to 93MB
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:12   #68  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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MPEG-4 file format can bring additional overhead to the file size. We calculate the bit rate of the elementary stream (AAC) inside the file, and excluding the anything else in the MPEG-4 container.
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:12   #69  |  Link
dimzon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
New Encoder is Uploaded!
BeHappy extension to support this perfect cli encoder is uploaded @ BeHappy Workspace @ gotDotNet
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:15   #70  |  Link
shon3i
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Thanks A Lot dimzon, and Ivan of course for encoder

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MPEG-4 file format can bring additional overhead to the file size. We calculate the bit rate of the elementary stream (AAC) inside the file, and excluding the anything else in the MPEG-4 container.
You think when i extract mp4 file to aac i get correct size.
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:18   #71  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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Yes - elementary stream should be fully compatible with the definition of 'constant bit rate' in ISO/14496-3 criteria.

BUT - you have to extract to headerless or ADIF aac elementary stream - if you extract it to ADTS AAC, extraction tool with add additional overhead of 7 bytes to each frame - which can be quite a lot if we are talking about a movie - since there can be e.g. 40 frames per second
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:23   #72  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
BUT - you have to extract to headerless or ADIF aac elementary stream - if you extract it to ADTS AAC, extraction tool with add additional overhead of 7 bytes to each frame - which can be quite a lot if we are talking about a movie - since there can be e.g. 40 frames per second
OMG, so what to do then, im just extracted from mp4 to ADTS AAC i get for 97 to 95, 93 to 90MB
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:49   #73  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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I think that mp4creator from MPEG4IP has the option to extract to headerless AAC tracks - there you can get the exact bit-rate of AAC stream, without any overhead.

But I am not sure why do you need that for? Headerless AAC is almost useless.
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Old 5th May 2006, 10:54   #74  |  Link
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@Ivan Dimkovic
Any response on this post?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...740#post823740

Thanx


Add:
Can You post here link to NeroDigitalAudio logo? Thanx!

Last edited by dimzon; 5th May 2006 at 11:01.
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:00   #75  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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@Dimzon,

I just forwarded this message to the developers working on the frontend.

I can only answer for ADTS AAC - and the answer is, no. We do not plan to support ADTS AAC as many of the encoder features are impossible with this outdated transport multiplex format.
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:03   #76  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
But I am not sure why do you need that for? Headerless AAC is almost useless.
Indeed...

I can't ever remember having sync issues with my AAC streams... and I've de-muxed them from MP4 files containing ASP video and re-muxed them into MP4 files containg AVC video.

I've even generated 6Ch AAC streams (from the same AC3 source) using different encoders (Nero, FAAC, WinAMP) and muxed them into the same MP4 file (with video), so I can flick thru' them to compare any differences...

I do it all now with YAMB (before that it was mp4UI) and they are always in sync
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:12   #77  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan DImkovic
I think that mp4creator from MPEG4IP has the option to extract to headerless AAC tracks - there you can get the exact bit-rate of AAC stream, without any overhead.

But I am not sure why do you need that for? Headerless AAC is almost useless.
I must down file size to mux vith video stream right. I get final filesize about 10mb larger instead 695mb i get 707MB which can fit on standard CD.

btw. Ivan why 2pass not work with stdin. This is powerfull option for long encodings can't be used for movies. I am not crazy to convert ac3->5.1wav

btw. i do some other test with 5.1 CBR encoding en i get good quality, with 2pass i get litle bit better quality than CT

Last edited by shon3i; 5th May 2006 at 11:14.
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:13   #78  |  Link
Ivan Dimkovic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i
I must down file size to mux vith video stream right. I get final filesize about 10mb larger instead 695mb i get 707MB which can fit on standard CD.
If you are muxing from MP4 file, you can be sure that only elementary AAC packets are being muxed - not the whole MP4 file, so you do not to worry if you selected -cbr switch.

Quote:
btw. Ivan why 2pass not work with stdin. This is powerfull option for long encodings can't be used for movies. I am not crazy to convert ac3->5.1wav
It does not work ATM as it would be somewhat complicated to support that - but we will see if there is a way to do it.
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:17   #79  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
If you are muxing from MP4 file, you can be sure that only elementary AAC packets are being muxed - not the whole MP4 file, so you do not to worry if you selected -cbr switch.
Yes i use cbr switch but get oversize instead 88 i get 97 which in final file result 707MB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dimkovic
It does not work ATM as it would be somewhat complicated to support that - but we will see if there is a way to do it.
I hope is that soon, but VBR mode can change becouse is very good. Is there any chance to integrate ReplyGain, and M/S on/of
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Old 5th May 2006, 11:35   #80  |  Link
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anyone have a GUI for this or can make one hving trouble wih comandline
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