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Old 24th March 2006, 22:37   #41  |  Link
temporance
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Well, that was zapped pretty quickly by the powers that be. Here's a theory...

On2 must be pretty scared of their codecs' source escaping into the wild because the source could be used to prove patent infringement. Without the source, patent holders like AT&T and Microsoft can only guess that VP6 might tread on their IP.

Having looked at the source, it's interesting that, for a proprietary, independent codec, VP6 shares so many tools with MPEG-4 pt2 and pt10 (H.264).

I'll stop now, I'm being mischevious...

Edit: Naturally I'm not alleging intentional patent infringement on On2's part - my point is that even the most upstanding public company will find it incredibly difficult to create a video codec without treading on multiple patents. By keeping the algorithm closed, companies can ensure they do not place potentially incriminating evidence (source code) in the hands of the "prosecution" (patent holders).

Last edited by temporance; 24th March 2006 at 22:43.
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Old 25th March 2006, 10:51   #42  |  Link
bond
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i guess on2 contacted sourceforge and this hosting company to remove the code. this either means:

1) the source was leaked and therefore on2's copyright was violated
2) on2 doesnt like their format to be publically known (which in fact now is the case no matter if the code gets removed from sf)

now regarding 2) i wonder whether reverse engineering is illegal? or whether offering code that uses someone elses patents is illegal without having the approval from the patent holder (same case as libdts)
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Old 27th March 2006, 15:23   #43  |  Link
Selur
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maybe they took the code of the java applet and just ported it,...
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Old 28th March 2006, 03:34   #44  |  Link
Sharktooth
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any official statements from on2?
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Old 28th March 2006, 03:41   #45  |  Link
Sirber
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new link:

link!

next time is torrent
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Old 29th March 2006, 02:16   #46  |  Link
B.F.
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VP6 in ffdshow...
Interesting
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Old 29th March 2006, 02:21   #47  |  Link
Sirber
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got deleted again...

Should I got for torrent?
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Old 29th March 2006, 03:40   #48  |  Link
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Put it up on your own server. Then we can see if On2 emails you to take it down and why.
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Old 29th March 2006, 08:40   #49  |  Link
dimzon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic_druid
Put it up on your own server. Then we can see if On2 emails you to take it down and why.
Yes, it's fine solution! Bcz I asked On2 multiple times about legality of this decoder and dosn't got answer at all! But next day after my letter libvp62 project @ sf.net was closed
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:28   #50  |  Link
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So if you hadn't asked, then maybe they never would have noticed? Although presumably whoever got Siber's files deleted read this thread.

If I were On2 and I had gotten the project removed, etc. then I wouldn't discuss it either if I didn't have to.
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:34   #51  |  Link
dimzon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic_druid
So if you hadn't asked, then maybe they never would have noticed? Although presumably whoever got Siber's files deleted read this thread.
Anycase they must provide any comments. Just tell as: "Hey, this code is stolen and illegal".
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:38   #52  |  Link
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If it was stolen, they wouldn't want people to know.
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:40   #53  |  Link
On2Tech
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On2 Position

We have previously and continue to be supporters of the open source community and have made significant contributions to open source video technology. As a public company, however, we feel that it is important to protect our intellectual property from abuse and to take all steps necessary to protect that property.

We therefore cannot support the unauthorized release of code that we believe has been illegally obtained or obtained in contravention of our licensing terms. We respect the hard work of the open source community and honor that work by observing contributors' copyrights and chosen licensing terms. In return, we expect the community to show the same respect to our works.

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Old 29th March 2006, 09:45   #54  |  Link
dimzon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by On2Tech
We have previously and continue to be supporters of the open source community and have made significant contributions to open source video technology. As a public company, however, we feel that it is important to protect our intellectual property from abuse and to take all steps necessary to protect that property.

We therefore cannot support the unauthorized release of code that we believe has been illegally obtained or obtained in contravention of our licensing terms. We respect the hard work of the open source community and honor that work by observing contributors' copyrights and chosen licensing terms. In return, we expect the community to show the same respect to our works.

On2Tech
Ok, everyone understand it, no problem.

Just a little question/criticism - I asked On2 about legality of this code multiple times and does not get any response too long... Why?
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:58   #55  |  Link
Wilbert
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Quote:
We therefore cannot support the unauthorized release of code that we believe has been illegally obtained or obtained in contravention of our licensing terms. We respect the hard work of the open source community and honor that work by observing contributors' copyrights and chosen licensing terms. In return, we expect the community to show the same respect to our works.
I won't comment of this, since we still don't know whether the code is stolen or reverse engineered. If it is stolen, you are fully in your right ...

But could you release your modified SSIM code (0.24a) as I asked you in a pm?
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Old 29th March 2006, 10:22   #56  |  Link
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Response to Dimzon and Wilbert

Dimzon,

I am sorry that we have taken so long to respond.

In our defense, we felt that it was important to study the code first. Also, we have to be careful about making off the cuff statements in forums, without observing due process.

Wilbert,

Sorry about that, we have been busy getting the new VP7 release ready amongst other things !! That said, we should at least have responded to your PM. A bit of a communications breakdown at our end Iím affraid. I will try and chase it up and get back to you ASAP.

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Old 29th March 2006, 11:11   #57  |  Link
dimzon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by On2Tech
Dimzon,

I am sorry that we have taken so long to respond.

In our defense, we felt that it was important to study the code first. Also, we have to be careful about making off the cuff statements in forums, without observing due process.
Just interesting - is it stolen code or reversed code... As I said before in another thread - it's impossible to write legal vp62 decoder without bitstream specification avaluable - that why I asked On2 about this code legality (AFAIK there are no public bitstream specification avaluable )

Last edited by dimzon; 29th March 2006 at 11:13.
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Old 29th March 2006, 12:10   #58  |  Link
On2Tech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimzon
Just interesting - is it stolen code or reversed code... As I said before in another thread - it's impossible to write legal vp62 decoder without bitstream specification avaluable - that why I asked On2 about this code legality (AFAIK there are no public bitstream specification avaluable )
Sorry, but for the time being I cannot say any more over and above the previous statement. I hope you will understand.

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Old 29th March 2006, 15:28   #59  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by On2Tech
We have previously and continue to be supporters of the open source community and have made significant contributions to open source video technology.
You are talking about Theora , What contributions make now On2 on Theora development?
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Old 29th March 2006, 15:38   #60  |  Link
dimzon
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Originally Posted by JuanCC
You are talking about Theora , What contributions make now On2 on Theora development?
Theora is just VP32 from On2
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