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Old 13th January 2006, 22:51   #81  |  Link
berrinam
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In video preview it should be possible to jump to a given frame-number.
I like it. Added to the list (all of these are pending Doom9's approval, of course).
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Possibility to change Video Input/Output filename directly. Instead of having to open the browser. Useful when you just make tests with several bitrates and you want to add that number into the output filename.
Perhaps with the output, but it isn't such a good idea with input. The idea with making it readonly is so that users can't go around stuffing things up. I imagine doing what you said wouldn't be so bad with output, but I think it is certainly better to keep input readonly. Another alternative that just came to me is to put the choice in the settings
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Not sure if this was discussed before: Changing the video profile does change the previous bitrate. Well, when I was doing profile comparision tests, this was very annoying. In my opinion, the bitrate value should not be stored in the profiles.
Yes, this was discussed before, I'm not sure what the conclusion was.
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Compressibility indication. Compressibility test, like in GordianKnot.
Quite a few experts say that this is not in fact a good indication of the compressibility of the entire film.
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[*]Should retain values entered. At the moment, everything is set to default values when you leave the dialog, so during tests I would have to enter my custom CD size, select previously coded audio files.
Mmmm.... I don't use the bitrate calculator much, so I don't have strong opinions either way. I'll add it to the list.
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Should permit entering other files in calculation (like booklet pictures, media player, installers, well everything else I want to put on the disc).
Just like GK. Once again, I'm not sure, but I'll put it on the list.

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Aspect Ratio error indication in Resolution Crop. [COLOR="DimGray"]So you can see if it would be better to cut of another row or column or if even another resolution would fit better. Have a look at GordianKnots Resolution-Crop settings to see what I mean.
It's really quite pointless as the aspect error is very hard to notice, so it's best just to crop all the lines off and be done with it.
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Width- and Height-Zoom indication. [COLOR="DimGray"]So you can actually see if you oversize the output video compared to the input. Like in GK.
Perhaps. It could be useful. I'll add it to the list.
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Old 13th January 2006, 22:51   #82  |  Link
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In video preview it should be possible to jump to a given frame-number.
Why? I see no particular use of that, except for a codec comparison.
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Possibility to change Video Input/Output filename directly
That was possible earlier on, but it has a huge drawback.. you can put nonsense in there and I (or another programmer) explicitly has to check for this each time.. not really what we like to do. Your scenario doesn't fit the 80/20 scenario. I rather liked the ability as well, but it allowed for too many screwups so in the end I changed it to what it is.. and the standard in setting a filename is using a dialogue, not allowing somebody to type in something.. that's something for the users in the 20 percentile I'm not specifically aiming for.
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Changing the video profile does change the previous bitrate. Well, when I was doing profile comparision tests, this was very annoying. In my opinion, the bitrate value should not be stored in the profiles.
So you basically have everything available from the main menu, but still have to go to the codec configuration to set the bitrate.. next thing you'll be asking for a bitrate field in the main menu.. that that is impractical. Oh wait.. you already suggested that as well. No way to the second, and I just put the bitrate in the profile name so I knew what I was getting. There are a few rather glaring problems with having the bitrate away from the codec.. it starts with the fact that many modes in many codecs don't need a bitrate but something else.. so you have interdependence between codec settings all of a sudden.. not a good thing really. And so if you set the encoding mode to crf for instance, people will open "bugreports" claiming they can't enter their 587 kbit/s bitrate.. instead they just set the encoding mode wrong.

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Compressibility indication.
Compressability tests are considered by many to be completely useless, and they get even more so with x264...

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Should retain values entered.
Easy, expect when you're the one coding it.. you do not want to touch the bitrate calculator.. every step you make you risk breaking one thing that tears down another 10 with it.

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Should permit entering other files in calculation
That's why you can change the target size manually

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Width- and Height-Zoom indication.
Uh, since when it that possible? I know setting the maximum size as being the source size.. you shouldn't be able to set a resolution higher than that.
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Old 13th January 2006, 22:53   #83  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Doom9
Uh, since when it that possible? I know setting the maximum size as being the source size.. you shouldn't be able to set a resolution higher than that.
Except that it doesn't take into account cropping, which can be quite signifiicant.
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Old 13th January 2006, 22:54   #84  |  Link
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Ok, since Doom9 doesn't seem keen on these things I was going to add to the list, there's no point in doing it now.
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Old 13th January 2006, 23:05   #85  |  Link
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the only possibility for custom values in the bitrate dropdowns I see would be allow adding them in the settings, store them in an array, and append them to the respective dropdowns and make sure the class that gets the sizes from the selectedindex is aware of them.. it requires changes in quite a few places, but I guess that would be a sensible solution.
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Old 13th January 2006, 23:40   #86  |  Link
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I want to be able to type the output filename directly in the main form. Using the dialog doesn't gain you any safety -- you're already typing a filename that doesn't exist.

The input filename should stay as-is (modulo the changes we discussed earlier about making the default be "all supported filetypes").

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So you basically have everything available from the main menu, but still have to go to the codec configuration to set the bitrate.. next thing you'll be asking for a bitrate field in the main menu.. that that is impractical. Oh wait.. you already suggested that as well. No way to the second, and I just put the bitrate in the profile name so I knew what I was getting. There are a few rather glaring problems with having the bitrate away from the codec.. it starts with the fact that many modes in many codecs don't need a bitrate but something else.. so you have interdependence between codec settings all of a sudden.. not a good thing really. And so if you set the encoding mode to crf for instance, people will open "bugreports" claiming they can't enter their 587 kbit/s bitrate.. instead they just set the encoding mode wrong.
I understood the request to be much simpler. No UI changes, no new controls. Just don't clobber what I've typed in the bitrate field when I switch profiles! (I find this annoying.) If we keep the current behavior, the workaround is to create several copies of each profile, each storing a commonly used bitrate along with all the other parameters. The problem is that you'd end up with a zillion profiles.
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Old 13th January 2006, 23:46   #87  |  Link
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you're already typing a filename that doesn't exist.
No, I'm putting one I know I'm going to create.. it's under my control.. I trust my coding abilities a lot more than the user's ability not to screw up (keep in mind.. it used to be editable.. I know firsthand what it caused).

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Just don't clobber what I've typed in the bitrate field when I switch profiles!
Then what do you do with these scenarios (keep in mind, I will always be the one looking for the scenarios that break things and cause horrible crashes.. you can expect me to be rather unfavorable to anything that I can break): you start up the program and load a crf profile. What is going to be the value of the bitratequantizer value? the codec default is 700 in that field.. but that doesn't work for ya because you're in CRF mode. And perhaps for CRF or CQ you'd actually want to keep the quality/quantizer in the profile as opposed to the bitrate based ones.
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Old 14th January 2006, 00:12   #88  |  Link
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Quite a few experts say that this is not in fact a good indication of the compressibility of the entire film.
I thought analizying 5 percent is accurate enough. There can be huge differences in compressibility so if you aiming for a certain file size I think it's a very good idea to do a comp check. For me aiming for a certain file size, multipass used to hit that and comp check as help altogether makes no sense at all but for some to me mysterious reasons the majority really want to hit a exact file size, I rather think more in terms of quality.
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Old 14th January 2006, 00:28   #89  |  Link
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No, I'm putting one I know I'm going to create.. it's under my control.. I trust my coding abilities a lot more than the user's ability not to screw up (keep in mind.. it used to be editable.. I know firsthand what it caused).
So run your validation whenever the user changes the field. Like you do in the bitrate calculator.

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Then what do you do with these scenarios...
Fair enough. Now that I think about it, I tend to use the same 3-4 bitrates over & over, and I almost always use HQ-Slowest, so making separate profiles isn't a big deal.
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Old 14th January 2006, 00:29   #90  |  Link
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well.. if the prevalent scenario is 1 or 2 CDs, it's basically a either or decision and a decision that shouldn't be too hard if you've actually seen the movie. The problem with quality mode imho is that you never know what you're going to get.. and if you have to waste a gig on a DVD-R, that's going to hurt. And affordable higher capacity recordable disks are still a while off (and then of course you'll want to put HD content on them..)
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Old 14th January 2006, 00:32   #91  |  Link
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Like you do in the bitrate calculator.
Can I turn any change ever to be made in that department in the future over to you? I found it the most hateful thing I've ever written.. there's validation and interdependence from here to Pluto.

There's another aspect about bitrates: you select a profile, then you enter the bitrate calculator.. you press apply, and the bitrate is set. Or, you use auto mode or one click, where the bitrate is automatically set. In the end, aren't most people that enter bitrates manually either a) missing the better modes so we need to do a better job teaching people (or I should get off my lazy bum and write a guide), or b) advanced users for whom it shouldn't be a problem going to that dialog?
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Old 14th January 2006, 01:04   #92  |  Link
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Can I turn any change ever to be made in that department in the future over to you? I found it the most hateful thing I've ever written.. there's validation and interdependence from here to Pluto.
I'll look at it sometime see if I can clean it up. Right now as a user it feels pretty robust, but the checks can be annoying (e.g. if bitrate is 1000 and you delete the '1' in the middle of your edit, it complains).

Meanwhile: if I write code that lets users type an output filename, and you can't break it, it'll be accepted -- deal?
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Old 14th January 2006, 13:24   #93  |  Link
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Right now as a user it feels pretty robust,
Yeah, but it was a long road to get there. And there must be a calculation error in the AVI department somewhere when using AVI (at least with CBR audio).. the end result gets too large if you trust MeGUI. So one of the consts for AVI overhead needs a change.
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Meanwhile: if I write code that lets users type an output filename, and you can't break it,
How do you do that? The only way to really make sure is to force the control not to let the user depart unless the path is correct.. and that's kinda annoying for the user.. it will drive many crazy.
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Old 14th January 2006, 22:23   #94  |  Link
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How do you do that?
How about when they push Queue / AutoEncode?


Would it be ok to show the start/end dates in the queue? Now that the status correctly handles times >24hr, it would be nice to see this info in the queue as well. (Most of my encodes take several days...) It will add a lot of width to a form that already scrolls horizontally, so it should probably be an option.


File loading is inconsistent. If you load a video input, it overwrites the video output name. If you load an audio input, it doesn't. Which should it be? Let's pick one.

Last edited by Richard Berg; 14th January 2006 at 23:11.
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Old 15th January 2006, 01:08   #95  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Richard Berg
Just don't clobber what I've typed in the bitrate field when I switch profiles! (I find this annoying.)
There's a way to do this without altering the behaviour of profiles that have bitrates included (which are desirable, I know I encode for a target bitrate rather than going for a specific size). Just alter the bitrate field in the profile to be nullable (one of the great new features in .NET 2.0 C#, heh) - that way you can create profiles with an inbuilt bitrate, or create one which in which the bitrate (or quality factor) is indeterminate and thus won't overwrite anything that's already present.

The problem is that work is keeping me quite busy right now, and I need to head out tomorrow for the next 2 weeks, during which my internet access will be spotty. This is an easy fix to make using nullables and a minor augmentation of the profile serialiser, but I can handle it in a week or two if no-one else wants to.
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Old 15th January 2006, 01:26   #96  |  Link
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Working on the VS team, I'm very familiar with nullables Great idea, I'll include it in my next patch if Doom9 approves.
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Old 15th January 2006, 12:26   #97  |  Link
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Just one more thing for the AviSynth script generator.
  • Possibility to select Deinterlace filter without Source Type Analysis.
    If I already know that I have a progressive source, why should I spend time on the analysis?
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Old 15th January 2006, 12:55   #98  |  Link
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Originally Posted by AgentX
If I already know that I have a progressive source, why should I spend time on the analysis?
If you already know you have a progressive source, then you don't need deinterlacing anyway, which is easy because deinterlacing isn't checked by default.

I can think of two reasons that you would want to override MeGUI's decision in source detection:
1. You have prior knowledge as to the content type. This would seem to me to be the case if you are encoding lots of things which are from the same source, eg Star Trek, etc. In this case, what you should really do is generate an AviSynth profile which looks something like this:
Code:
<input>
your_custom_ivtc/deint_filters()
<crop>
<resize>
<denoise
This would then use your exact filter setup for all of the sources, and you have no need to analyse the source.

2. The other reason might be that you think MeGUI is getting the analysis wrong. In this case, you would be an expert in this field, and you wouldn't want to be using the deinterlacing presets. Instead, you would be editing the avs script yourself.

I was expecting someone to ask for this sort of thing when I set it up, and the issue comes down to this: source detection is designed to make various forms of decombing accessible to n00bs. Adding the possibility of overriding this decision partly defeats the purpose, makes it overly complex, and is bound to cause more problems. If you can come up with a good system for allowing for both advanced and not-so-advanced users, please tell me.
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Old 15th January 2006, 12:59   #99  |  Link
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Great idea, I'll include it in my next patch if Doom9 approves.
When is it indeterminate then? When the textbox is empty? And what happens if the user exits with a profile that has an indeterminate bitrate? Then he starts again, we're loading the profile, and then? There's no bitrate set. If this is to be done, there must be a mechanism that ensures that if we have no clue about the bitrate / q factor, the default value must be written into that field so that encoding won't crash due to missing input.

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How about when they push Queue / AutoEncode?
That sounds reasonable.

BTW, my refactoring made some changes to yours.. we did basically the same thing, but I moved JobStatus out of the Job class. And I finally figured out how to use the enum <-> int mapping only when required (the priority is also an enum now that maps to the dropdownlists in the settings and progress window).
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Old 15th January 2006, 13:18   #100  |  Link
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Originally Posted by berrinam
If you already know you have a progressive source, then you don't need deinterlacing anyway, which is easy because deinterlacing isn't checked by default.
Of course, I wanted to say: "If you already know you have a deinterlaced source, ..."

In 0.2.3.2024 the Deinterlace is always checked, but there's just a blank deinterlace line in the script, so no problem.

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Originally Posted by berrinam
In this case, what you should really do is generate an AviSynth profile which looks something like this:
Hm, this isn't such a bad idea, I think I'll use special profiles.
Normally, I use standalone DgIndex to create the .d2v file, so I already know from there if the source is progressive or interlaced.
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