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Old 8th July 2005, 09:34   #21  |  Link
jinjin_jp
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Sorry, I've mistook "copy PGC" is "copy VOB".
Certainly to join VOBs maintaining each is difficult.
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Old 8th July 2005, 12:22   #22  |  Link
zacoz
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Confirmed my suspicions r0lZ.

Wondering out loud here - and won't have chance to test for a couple of hours, but:

Possibly import the VMGM from disc two as a new VTSM in the combined disc (seem to recall something mentioned in PgcEdit instructions). I could then add dummy VMGM PGC's equal to each of the disc two VMGM PGC's. Commands could be copied over making all these added dummy PGC's work as intended. For those requiring actual video cells (ie not able to be blanked), the VMGM could jump to the (VMGM parading as a) VTSM to display cells, and then jump back to dummy VMGM PGC's and continue as intended (probably need some additional dummy PGC's to avoid invalid jumping within DVD).

Not pretty, or as clean as importing VTST & VTSM ( r0lZ).

Will report back later tonight or tomorrow - promised to play with my son for a while.
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Old 8th July 2005, 13:13   #23  |  Link
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That's correct, this method should work, but requires a lot of work. It is possible to import a VMGM menu as a VTSM menu with PgcEdit. Don't forget to change the Title menu to a Root menu (or something else)!

Also, I wonder what you will do if both the original DVDs does have a Title menu callable with the remote. Which one will you keep? Or will you jump to the DVD selection menu when the title button is pressed? And add two additional menu buttons to jump to the title menu of each DVD?
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Old 8th July 2005, 14:46   #24  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Don't forget to change the Title menu to a Root menu (or something else)!
Thanks, hadn't thought of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
...Or will you jump to the DVD selection menu when the title button is pressed? And add two additional menu buttons to jump to the title menu of each DVD?
Yes intent is to add an additional menu to select which DVD, with Title button going back to this. I figure the menu to choose DVD will be created in DVDStyler/DVDAuthorGUI and imported in as a new VTSM. Existing and new dummy VMGM's used to incorporate it into the command flow. Downside is that you end up back at this DVD selection menu when you probably really only want to go back to the title of the previously selected menu. Gets far too complex (for my brain anyway) trying to do it any other way, especially as I'm dealing with combined total of 27 VTS and well over 200 PGC's - both discs are DVD extras with original menu's. (Why haven't I been commited yet ).

Basically, I'm attempting to replicate as far as possible the arrangement used by Dimad. He doesn't use angles, empty gprm's or (from memory) language units to enable the joining. I need to put into VTSM some of the stuff that Dimad manages to join within the VMGM however.

Should help give me a better understanding of the DVD commands even if I never do it again.
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Old 8th July 2005, 21:13   #25  |  Link
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
I wonder what you will do if both the original DVDs does have a Title menu callable with the remote. Which one will you keep? Or will you jump to the DVD selection menu when the title button is pressed? And add two additional menu buttons to jump to the title menu of each DVD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacoz
Yes intent is to add an additional menu to select which DVD, with Title button going back to this...Downside is that you end up back at this DVD selection menu when you probably really only want to go back to the title of the previously selected menu.
If both DVDs have a Title menu, when merged you can have only one Title menu, which will be the DVD selection menu, aka merged menu. If you really want to access the Title menu of each original dvd, there is a way, but accessing it won't be exactly the same as the original b/c you need to also access the merged menu as well esp. if you want to go to another DVD. This method only takes 1 or 2 commands in 4 places. Alternative method is just create 2 additional menu buttons to jump directly to the title menu of each DVD, like r0lZ has mentioned.

Based on DRMP's merge procedure, my method works like this. Starting at the merged menu, you select DVD1, at any time in DVD1 you press Title menu the first time, you'll go to the Title menu of DVD1, if you press the second time, you'll go to the merged menu. And the cycle repeats. The same logic goes for DVD2. Of course, this logic works on as many DVDs you want to merge.

With this method tested, I notice when I press Title menu, depending on the conditions, it will either go to the very beginning as if the original DVD is first inserted (like going thru warnings, logos, commercials, etc) or just to the main menu, etc. So to me, it's just like pressing Root menu. If you like this method, I will elaborate the steps. Most of the work is done with the merging -- adding/deleting pgc, adjusting navigation, and dealing with content (if any) in VMGM, since your focus is to make use of freeware.

btw, instead of importing the merge menu in VMGM, you can import as a new VTS which is already created by the authoring tool. Adjust navigation accordingly.
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Old 9th July 2005, 05:23   #26  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyhawk
Based on DRMP's merge procedure, my method works like this. Starting at the merged menu, you select DVD1, at any time in DVD1 you press Title menu the first time, you'll go to the Title menu of DVD1, if you press the second time, you'll go to the merged menu. And the cycle repeats. The same logic goes for DVD2. Of course, this logic works on as many DVDs you want to merge.
Good idea. You would need a spare gprm variable I imagine - can't think of any other way to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyhawk
btw, instead of importing the merge menu in VMGM, you can import as a new VTS which is already created by the authoring tool. Adjust navigation accordingly.
Yes PgcEdit makes this so simple.

For the disc's I'm working on I realised I won't need to bring in anything from VIDEO_TS.VOB on second disc as after removal of crap, it's only a language selection menu left. I always edit these in PgcEdit to autoselect the English button anyway so will just adjust the pre commands instead.

I've created additional dummy VMGM PGC's in the combined disc and pasted in the VMGM commands from disc two for now. Will investigate importing VMGM into VTSM on next project.
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Old 9th July 2005, 16:31   #27  |  Link
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Guide to Joining DVD's - Tested Draft

OK, I've joined my first two DVD's , and tested successfully on WinDVD. I still need to shrink it slightly so I can burn and test on stand alone though. Anyway, I hereby present the long winded process:
  1. Create copy of disc one and disc two (extra protection against totally screwing it up)
  2. Open disc one in PgcEdit
  3. Import VTST Titles from disc two
    1. ensure you select to copy or move the VOBs when prompted
    2. need to take note of the old title numbers and their respective new title numbers as you need to update commands later
  4. Import VTSM Menus from disc two
    1. for each imported VTST, select it then Import Menu from original disc two
    2. ensure you select to copy or move the VOBs when prompted
  5. VMGM PGC's
    1. select VMGM and create a new dummy PGC
    2. delete NOP command and copy commands from disc one VMG First-Play PGC to this new dummy PGC (write down its number as this is what you need to link to later from your new disc selection menu to play disc one)
    3. select VMGM and create another new dummy PGC, deleting it's NOP command
    4. Open disc two in another instance of PgcEdit (only to enable you to copy VMGM commands - you don't make any changes to it)
    5. copy commands from disc two VMG First-Play PGC to this new dummy PGC (write down its number as this is what you need to link to later from your new disc selection menu to play disc two)
    6. select VMGM and create additional new dummy PGC's for each VMGM PGC appearing in disc two (deleting NOP commands in each)
    7. copy commands from disc two VMGM PGC's to these new dummy PGC's
  6. Fix navigation
    1. select VMG First Play PGC and use 'Go to calling 'command' to identify any 'Jump to VMGM First Play PGC' commands throughout the DVD. Those from disc one should be changed to jump to the first dummy VMGM PGC added (5b). Those from disc two should be changed to jump to the second dummy VMGM PGC added (5e).
    2. find existing TitleM menu and use 'Go to calling 'command' to identify any 'Jump to VMGM Title' commands throughout the DVD. Those from disc one should be changed to jump to the VMGM using the PGC number not via use of the 'Title' reference. Those from disc two should be changed to jump to the VMGM which was flagged as TitleM in the original disc two (ensuring you use it's new 'joined disc' PGC number in the commands).
    3. select VMGM and create another new dummy PGC
    4. change the NOP command to Jump to First Play PGC
    5. set this PGC as the new TitleM menu
    6. go through each added/imported VMGM, VTST, and VTSM and adjust commands to point to the new VMGM PGC numbers (they will all be increased by the same number - equivalent to the PGC number where you pasted the VMG First Play PGC commands from disc two (5e))
    7. go through each added/imported VMGM and adjust commands to point to the new VTS numbers (they will all be increased by the same number - equivalent to the number of VTS's in the original disc one)
    8. go through each added/imported VMGM, VTST, and VTSM and adjust commands to point to the new title numbers (refer to list from start of the process or compare back to original disc two - note they will most likely not all be increased by the same number as title numbers in original disc are probably not in the same numerical order as the VTS's, however on importing them earlier, they would have been renumbered into numerical order)
    9. check each added/imported menu/bov button and update them to point to the new VMGM/VTS numbers as required.
  7. Create Disc selection menu
    1. use your favourite authoring program (e.g. DVDAuthorGUI) to create a dummy DVD containing a titleset menu designed to suit your joined DVD - i.e. a page with two buttons (make it as generic or customised as you like)
    2. Import VTST title from your dummy DVD, but don't copy or move the VOB
    3. Import VTSM Menu from your dummy DVD, and copy/move VOB
    4. remove all commands from this VTS except for possibly the set button highlight in the pre command section of VTSM containing the menu
    5. flag the VTSM containing your disc selection menu as root menu
    6. edit menu buttons to jump to the VMGM PGC's acting as pseudo First Play PGC's for disc's one and two (5b & 5e respectively)
    7. Replace all existing commands in the 'real' VMG First Play PGC with (a) set gprm commands to zero out gprm's 0-15, then (b) jump command to VTSM root menu containing your new disc selection menu
  8. Save and test DVD

Note that with above arrangement, pressing the Title button on the remote will take you back to the Disc Selection menu. This is in fact the only way back to the menu.

Commands could be added/changed such that the first press of Title button takes you back to the title of the DVD you are watching and a second press within a given time would take you back to the disc selection menu (requires understanding the flow of the specific DVD you are dealing with and possibly an unused gprm). Using the root menu button would probably suffice to back out to the main menu of the selected DVD in most cases.

Above assumes that all VMGM PGC's in disc two have been processed through PgcEdit or VobBlanker such that there are no video cells remaining in VIDEO_TS which need to be copied over to the joined disc (unless there were none to start with of course).

My thanks go to those thread contributors who helped me reach this point - jinjin_jp, Surf, rolZ, spyhawk.

[edit 10/07/2005: had to run finished product through Vobblanker, processing only the last VTS, as DVDShrink wouldn't open it as it was missing VTS_28_1.VOB - result of not copying vob in 7b. Vobblanker created the blank vob, adjusted ifo and all appears well in the world]
[edit 12/07/05: remove superfluous checks in step 6g]

Last edited by zacoz; 12th July 2005 at 11:41.
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Old 9th July 2005, 18:36   #28  |  Link
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Very nice draft indeed. Almost like DRMP 3.0.7's new merge procedure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacos
Commands could be added/changed such that the first press of Title button takes you back to the title of the DVD you are watching and a second press within a given time would take you back to the disc selection menu (requires understanding the flow of the specific DVD you are dealing with and possibly an unused gprm)
You're right, you would need to use an unused gprm for this, but there's no need for a time limit for a second press. So based on your flow, you would only add 1 or 2 precommands in a few places.
  1. From 6c-e Title menu, insert these 2 conditions before Jump to First Play PGC. I'll use gprm(4) as unused register.
    1. if ( gprm(4) == 1) then { LinkPGCN PGC 1 } Title menu of original DVD1.
    2. if ( gprm(4) == 2) then { LinkPGCN PGC # } Title menu of original DVD2 (from 5f)
  2. In VMG PGC 1, insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
  3. In VMG PGC # (5f), insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
  4. In VMG PGC # (5b First play of DVD1), insert gprm(4)=1 as first line.
  5. In VMG PGC # (5e First play of DVD2), insert gprm(4)=2 as first line.
I guess you probably know how to do this already.
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Old 10th July 2005, 07:52   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyhawk
Very nice draft indeed. Almost like DRMP 3.0.7's new merge procedure.
Yes looking at the output from demo version of DVDReMakePro, and Dimad's answers to some questions I had helped also. Should have included him in thanks also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyhawk
You're right, you would need to use an unused gprm for this, but there's no need for a time limit for a second press.
Sorry, inaccurate choice of explanation. More accurate explanation of what I was thinking is probably that first Title button press takes you to title menu of disc being watched, with Title button press from that menu takes you back to the Disc Selection menu. If however you instead progress to play something in that disc, the next title button press would take to to that disc title menu again first.

This seems slightly different to your example, I think (I've got a headache at the moment so may not be tracing it properly). Your example on second press from anywhere in disc would take you immediately back to Disc Selection menu.

To adapt your commands to work as I was thinking would simply require changing the last two listed commands to be the first command in the post command section of the respective disc's title menu.

Quote:
Pre commands
  • From 6c-e Title menu, insert these 2 conditions before Jump to First Play PGC. I'll use gprm(4) as unused register.
    1. if ( gprm(4) == 1) then { LinkPGCN PGC 1 } Title menu of original DVD1.
    2. if ( gprm(4) == 2) then { LinkPGCN PGC # } Title menu of original DVD2 (from 5f)
  • In VMG PGC 1 (title menu of DVD1), insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
  • In VMG PGC # (5f title menu of DVD2), insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
Post commands
  • In VMG PGC 1 (title menu of DVD1), insert gprm(4)=1 as first line.
  • In VMG PGC # (5f title menu of DVD2), insert gprm(4)=2 as first line.
[edit: Discovered error with above. Refer to post 36 below for correction]

Who'd have thought 6 months ago (when I registered at Doom9) I'd be capable of contributing to a thread such as this

Last edited by zacoz; 10th July 2005 at 14:18.
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Old 10th July 2005, 09:59   #30  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacoz
7 - b. Import VTST title from your dummy DVD, but don't copy or move the VOB

[edit: had to run finished product through Vobblanker, processing only the last VTS, as DVDShrink wouldn't open it as it was missing VTS_28_1.VOB - result of not copying vob in 7b. Vobblanker created the blank vob, adjusted ifo and all appears well in the world]
There is a trick to add a 10Kb blank VOB with PgcEdit: just select Blank Out All VTST Titles, with the options to replace the titles by a black frame, and don't kill playback. A new VOB will be created by PgcEdit, and the VOBU references fixed. DVD Shrink will not complain anymore.
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Old 10th July 2005, 10:14   #31  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacoz
... that first Title button press takes you to title menu of disc being watched, with Title button press from that menu takes you back to the Disc Selection menu.
Hum, I'm not sure it's actually possible to jump to the main DVD selection menu by pressing the title button twice. Unfortunately, on most (all?) players, the Title Menu and the Root menu buttons are used to resume to the title domain when you press them while you are already in a menu domain. So, instead of jumping to the main title menu, you will jump to the last played title.
Note that pressing the title menu button agan after the resume should return to the title menu again, and this time the method will probably work. So, you may have to press the Title menu button 3 times to go to the selection menu.
Of course, another method is to open and close the tray, but the GPRMs values will be lost.

I think you should be able to use the GoUpPGC link to use the Return button to go back to the main DVD selection menu while you are in the main Root or Title menu of DVD 1 or 2. This should work in all cases, unless the GoUpPGCN link is already used for another purpose. And I'm not sure there is a Return button on all remotes.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 10th July 2005 at 10:29.
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Old 10th July 2005, 10:22   #32  |  Link
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Also, I think it may be necessary to reset all GPRMs to 0 before jumping to the DVD 2 entry point after having played DVD 1 (or vice varsa), or the new DVD may wrongly interpret the values initialized by the first played DVD.

Also, if you join only 2 DVDs, you don't really need to import a selfmade menu. The title button can act as a toggle. If the last DVD played is, say, DVD 1, you may jump straight to DVD 2, and vice versa.
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Old 10th July 2005, 10:48   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Hum, I'm not sure it's actually possible to jump to the main DVD selection menu by pressing the title button twice...
I'll probably try adding better title functionality when I get the time. I'd also like to create a guide complete with some screenshots - will use a simpler disc than I'm using now though.
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Old 10th July 2005, 10:53   #34  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Also, I think it may be necessary to reset all GPRMs to 0 before jumping to the DVD 2 entry point after having played DVD 1 (or vice varsa), or the new DVD may wrongly interpret the values initialized by the first played DVD.
Step 7g incorporates this clearing of GPRMs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
Also, if you join only 2 DVDs, you don't really need to import a selfmade menu. The title button can act as a toggle. If the last DVD played is, say, DVD 1, you may jump straight to DVD 2, and vice versa.
Interesting thought.
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Old 10th July 2005, 10:55   #35  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
There is a trick to add a 10Kb blank VOB with PgcEdit: just select Blank Out All VTST Titles, with the options to replace the titles by a black frame, and don't kill playback. A new VOB will be created by PgcEdit, and the VOBU references fixed. DVD Shrink will not complain anymore.
Cool
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Old 10th July 2005, 14:12   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacoz
[post 29] To adapt your commands to work as I was thinking would simply require changing the last two listed commands to be the first command in the post command section of the respective disc's title menu.....
Well on trying this I found that I had not thought it through properly - not quite so simple.

Have now revised and tested on software player as follows:

Pre commands (no change from above)
  • From 6c-e Title menu, insert these 2 conditions before Jump to First Play PGC. I'll use gprm(4) as unused register.
    1. if ( gprm(4) == 1) then { LinkPGCN PGC 1 } Title menu of original DVD1.
    2. if ( gprm(4) == 2) then { LinkPGCN PGC # } Title menu of original DVD2 (from 5f)
  • In VMG PGC 1 (title menu of DVD1), insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
  • In VMG PGC # (5f title menu of DVD2), insert gprm(4)=0 as first line.
Following command need to be placed either as first Pre command in all the PGC's the command flow goes to after pressing a button on the disc's main menu, OR if the disc main menu button commands are LinkTail commands then the follow command needs to be placed as first command in Post command section of the disc main menu.
  • For disc one, insert gprm(4)=1 as first line.
  • For disc two, insert gprm(4)=2 as first line.
A trace of the disc may be required as the complexity of some disc commands makes it difficult to cover all flow possibilities by just looking at the commands in isolation. A possible help may be to add the set gprm(4)=0 command as the first line in the PGC containing the disc's main menu.

Last edited by zacoz; 10th July 2005 at 14:19.
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Old 10th July 2005, 14:56   #37  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacoz
Yes looking at the output from demo version of DVDReMakePro, and Dimad's answers to some questions I had helped also. Should have included him in thanks also.
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Old 10th July 2005, 18:44   #38  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ
I think you should be able to use the GoUpPGC link to use the Return button to go back to the main DVD selection menu while you are in the main Root or Title menu of DVD 1 or 2. This should work in all cases, unless the GoUpPGCN link is already used for another purpose. And I'm not sure there is a Return button on all remotes.
GoUpPGC link only works within the same VTS domain, not across VTS domain esp. the disc selection menu is on a separate VTS, unless, of course, there's a link to VMG Title menu in that PGC. But then you may have to modify this for a lot of PGCs. One of my remotes does not have a Return button, since I don't see it labeled "Return". All I see is Title, Menu, and Resume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacos
Your example on second press from anywhere in disc would take you immediately back to Disc Selection menu.
This is what I intend it to be. I have already tested this on 2 complex merged dvds, and they work as described. Say you're on DVD1, either you're at any type of menu or you're playing some title, first press of Title menu button will take you to the menu, usually main menu; second press will take you to the disc selection menu (Title menu).

You're starting to make this way complicated. No need to trace all commands in the disc. There's also another way, how 'bout while you're playing some title on DVD1, and you press Title menu button, then it will always take you to the Title menu of DVD1 (VMG PGC 1). Only if you're in any type of menu (of DVD1) and you press Title menu button, then it will always take you to the disc selection menu. This will require a bit more work but not that complicated.

Personally, I like the first method better since it's simple.

Last edited by spyhawk; 10th July 2005 at 18:48.
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Old 11th July 2005, 09:21   #39  |  Link
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@spyhawk:
I agree, it's easy to get very complicated with certain functionality - especially on some complex discs.

For someone not wanting to go to so much trouble, your process provides a good level of functionality.

Personally, I like the functionality resulting from my process in post 36, and am happy to spend the extra time to set up and test it, if I'm already spending the time manually joining the discs.

Don't know how often I'll actually do all this though - it can be a lot of work joining the dvd's, especially considering how cheap the blanks are.

Thanks for your valuable input.
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Old 11th July 2005, 10:29   #40  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyhawk
GoUpPGC link only works within the same VTS domain, not across VTS domain esp. the disc selection menu is on a separate VTS, unless, of course, there's a link to VMG Title menu in that PGC. But then you may have to modify this for a lot of PGCs. One of my remotes does not have a Return button, since I don't see it labeled "Return". All I see is Title, Menu, and Resume.
Of course, you're right. I mean "you can use the GoUpPGCN link to jump to a new dummy PGC, and from that PGC, jump to the main DVD Selection menu." But in this thread, we are talking to experienced users!

The Resume button is the Return button. It may also be labelled Go Up, or with a broken arrow like the Enter symbol on most keyboards.
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