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Old 6th July 2005, 15:40   #21  |  Link
peteag
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what????? i don't understand this procedure. i have an old dvd-audio which was included in my audigy2-package. i don't know if this is protected. when i input the commands into dvdaripper nothing happend. even when i hit the play button. windvd is very unfluid in playing back dvd-audios. nothing happend. can someone give me an exact list of doings?
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Old 6th July 2005, 16:11   #22  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedfu
I was able to rip the /audio_ts with dvdaripper, then I did the /video_ts with dvdecryptor. Then I created an iso of those 2 folders and mounted with alcohol. Windvd will play those and the information tab says it's downmixing the 24bit/44khz 6 channel packed PCM 6350kbit.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by grug2k
DVD Decrypter+DVDARipper-> .ISO -> PPMRipper gave me a nice 5ch 24/96 WAV...One 4:45 track was almost 500MB in size. FLACced that was about 260MB.
How did you two make the .ISO with the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders? I can't seem to get anywhere with Gear Pro.

@grug2k: What did you mount the ISO with, or did you actually burn it?
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Old 6th July 2005, 16:26   #23  |  Link
grug2k
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I made the ISO using Nero. I just made a DVD-Video compilation, dragged the DVD Decrypter output into VIDEO_TS, the dvdaripper output into AUDIO_TS, made an .iso using Nero's Image recorder, and mounted it using Alcohol 120%. (Although Daemon Tools or Nero Virtual Drive would work too).

Once its done, I just mount the image, load up WinDVD via ppcmripper and direct it to the virtual drive.
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Old 6th July 2005, 16:57   #24  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grug2k
I made the ISO using Nero. I just made a DVD-Video compilation, dragged the DVD Decrypter output into VIDEO_TS, the dvdaripper output into AUDIO_TS, made an .iso using Nero's Image recorder, and mounted it using Alcohol 120%. (Although Daemon Tools or Nero Virtual Drive would work too).

Once its done, I just mount the image, load up WinDVD via ppcmripper and direct it to the virtual drive.
Ok, thanks. I'll have to try this when I get home. I have a few DVD-As, but they are dual layer. I only have a single layer burner, so it has limited my options. Being able to make an .ISO that works with WinDVD will be great.
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Old 6th July 2005, 17:01   #25  |  Link
Nedfu
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I used Winiso to make the iso. How can you tell if a disk is watermarked?
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Old 6th July 2005, 19:13   #26  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedfu
I used Winiso to make the iso. How can you tell if a disk is watermarked?
I don't think it's as simple as just copying the DVD-A files to the disc to make a DVD-A. One of the help files made a specific point to use one of only three specific authoring apps (Gear Pro Mastering being the preferred one), and said to never try using Nero for burning a DVD-A.

So, that might be why your disc that is not working in your Pioneer stand alone unit.
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Old 6th July 2005, 20:26   #27  |  Link
rubycon
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Watermarking is the problem

I did some ripping on my DVD's the hard way:

I plugged the analog out of my Marantz universal player to a high quality audio card ( EMU-1820M, that I use mostly to translate high quality vinyls to 192K DVD-AUDIO), just to see how it worked.

Since I was interested only in backing up high quality Stereo I did a 24/96 PCM copy of a DVD ( Buenavista Social Club, Ry Cooder, Compai Segundo). So using wavelab-5 I did a DVD-audio ISO file and burned a disc.

What happened: every track pleyed for about 30 seconds and then the DVD went to stop: This is watermarking in action.

So I did a blank movie and put the original 24 bit file, spliced in tracks as its soundtrack and burned it as DVD-VIDEO. I played it again and.... It worked!.... No watermark checking in DVD -VIDEO to the soundtrack wave.

What about multichanel?, well that can be solved also, without not too much loss, by using DTS. Again, use the DTS track as the soundtrack on a blank VIdeo, and you'll get the highest possible quality of a watermarked source.

As far as I know, there is no software available up to now to erase watermarking.

The really interesting about the ripper is that it will save you some time, because I may say that the 24/96 copy using the EMU 1820M card is the closest you can get to the original. I bet nobody would be able to hear any difference.


As for some people here wondering why taking so much trouble having an AC3 track I must say they should go to some high end shop and spend one or two hours listening to a DVD Audio on a high end setup, and then come here and give their opinion again.
(Take with you some of those for example, Buenavista social Club, Ray Brown's Soular Energy, Mana's Sueños Liquidos, Pat Metheny Imaginary Day, Eagle's Hotel California, ELP's Bran Salad Surgery...)

Mp3 and ac3 sucks in my opinion. The only lossless compressed scheme I like is DTS...so far, but nothing comes close to 24/96 and 24/192, only vinyl comes close, when mastered using 1/2 speed and pressed using 180 or 200 gram baffles; and then played on a high quality set-up ( excellent MC catridge, excellent phono preamp). Of course the rest shall be high quality too, because if not, why bother in the first place.


Francisco
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Old 6th July 2005, 21:28   #28  |  Link
Andrey
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Quote:
That said, the audio quality of an "AOB->WAV->other format" might be better than an "AC3->other format", but would it be worth the effort?
As I remeber correctly, ac3 codec is not situable for music at all, because it has dynamic compression especially developed for movies sound encoding.
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Old 6th July 2005, 21:53   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey
As I remeber correctly, ac3 codec is not situable for music at all, because it has dynamic compression especially developed for movies sound encoding.
To be honest I would not know about this, as I have not studied the intricacies of the DolbyDigital codec.

Okay, AC3 audio is not in the same league as the audio stream on an DTS CD or even an DTS DVD but as long as the frequency range is something like 20Hz to 18-20kHz and the dynamic range extends to a min of 90db, I reckon given the bitrate, AC3 should work perfectly well.

Can anybody else confirm though?


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 6th July 2005 at 21:55.
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Old 6th July 2005, 23:26   #30  |  Link
Morbo
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AC3 is like anything else....it's all about bitrate.

IMHO,a stereo 192k AC3 file sounds better than the same in mp3...

But,do the math.....448k/bits for 6 channels vs DTS @ Cd speed (lossless@ 1.4 megs).

No contest.

I'm glad with BRD and DVD-HD we get lossless formats.

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Old 7th July 2005, 02:09   #31  |  Link
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I reckon that if the DVD audio is decoded into Wave files, re-enconded as a DTS Audio CD or even a DTS DVD with hi res (96khz) sampling at max datarate (about 1.3mbps) would blow away the any AC3 file...

I realise the quality isn't as good as DVD AUDIO, but it would be far better than Ac3 and easy to play on your home dvd player....

What do you guys think?
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Old 7th July 2005, 02:19   #32  |  Link
Stereodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewonderer
I reckon that if the DVD audio is decoded into Wave files, re-enconded as a DTS Audio CD or even a DTS DVD with hi res (96khz) sampling at max datarate (about 1.3mbps) would blow away the any AC3 file...

I realise the quality isn't as good as DVD AUDIO, but it would be far better than Ac3 and easy to play on your home dvd player....

What do you guys think?
There's lots of things you can do with higher quality versions of the disc. Multichannel FLAC seems like a neat idea to try.
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Old 7th July 2005, 02:48   #33  |  Link
Nedfu
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DTS-CD is not lossless and it's still a relatively pawltry 16bit 44.1khz.

Also, AC3 @448kbit has full extension to 20khz whereas DTS DVD @768kbit is only flat to ~16khz and then trails off. Neither is even vaguely comparable to the lossless 24bit DVD-A/SACD formats.

Regarding ripping to a 6 channel lossless 24bit wav, how would you play it later and output the 6 channels to a receiver?
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Old 7th July 2005, 02:57   #34  |  Link
calinb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude
One of the help files made a specific point to use one of only three specific authoring apps (Gear Pro Mastering being the preferred one), and said to never try using Nero for burning a DVD-A.
Tracertek.com also has a DVD-A authoring proggy. Given that Gear Pro is the only program recommended in the readme file and given that Gear Pro costs much more than the Tracertek software, perhaps we should look for cheaper alternatives! Has anyone had success with any less expensive software?
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Old 7th July 2005, 04:36   #35  |  Link
Revgen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom9
May I remind you that some 6 years ago DVD ripping meant framegrabbing and recording using an audio recorder software? It wasn't much but it was a start.
<OFFTOPIC>

That reminds me of a time when there was software that attempted to read DVD's using CD drives. I think it would attempt to read how the CD-ROM drive's laser would bounce off the DVD disc and try to interpret it into real data.

This was back in the day when DVD drives cost about 300-400 dollars.

Wow, I'm starting to feel old.
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Old 7th July 2005, 07:33   #36  |  Link
daphy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calinb
Tracertek.com also has a DVD-A authoring proggy. Given that Gear Pro is the only program recommended in the readme file and given that Gear Pro costs much more than the Tracertek software, perhaps we should look for cheaper alternatives! Has anyone had success with any less expensive software?
maybe this project will reach the wanted point

Edit:
Changelog looks promising
[27 Mar 2005] Added FLAC support to dvda-author
[26 Mar 2005] Added support for up to 24-bit audio
[19 Mar 2005] Added support for up to 9 groups of tracks (available in latest alpha release)
[14 Mar 2005] First working version of dvda-author committed to CVS (16-bit Stereo, one group only)
[01 Mar 2005] Website launched
[21 Feb 2005] Project registered at Sourceforge


Versions
dvda-author-20050703.zip Bugfixes - correctly deal with the case of 9 groups, and ignore extra non-PCM RIFF chunks at the end of a WAV file (fixes some "clicks between tracks" problems)

dvda-author-20050402.zip Bugfixes - fixed bug with 24-bit Stereo files and also improved command-line parsing and error reporting.

dvda-author-20050328.zip Fixed support for 24-bit mono files.

dvda-author-20050327.zip Incorporated FLAC decoder to enable authoring directly from FLAC files

dvda-author-20050326.zip Support for 24-bit Stereo files (24-bit mono untested)

dvda-author-20050323c.zip Added support for mono files

dvda-author-20050323b.zip Bugfix - fixed bug that caused the ATSI to overflow when authoring a disc more than about 50-60 tracks in a single group. The ATSI is now either 2 or 3 sectors, depending on the number of tracks.

dvda-author-20050319.zip Add support for up to 9 groups of tracks. Added -pp option to correctly locate the AUDIO_PP.IFO file

dvda-author-20050315.zip Initial release - supports 16-bit Stereo audio at any DVD-Audio samplerate.
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Old 7th July 2005, 09:09   #37  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedfu
Regarding ripping to a 6 channel lossless 24bit wav, how would you play it later and output the 6 channels to a receiver?
In much the same way most of us hook-up our DVD-A players to our surround-sound amps now.... via 6Ch analogue connection!


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Old 7th July 2005, 12:10   #38  |  Link
Stereodude
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Someone needs to write and firewire audio driver for the PC. That way the PC can output audio via "ilink" to compatible recievers.
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Old 7th July 2005, 16:01   #39  |  Link
ron spencer
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the audio world is a-buzz!!!!

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=14550899
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Old 7th July 2005, 17:44   #40  |  Link
rjamorim
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...and it's gone

I got a phone call from a big local lawyer office (no fake, I checked the caller ID and the phone number really belongs to a lawyer office). They have been hired to make me stop distributing the DVD-A tools. It was a reasonably big talk, but I can summarize it with

They: we are giving you two choices, either you remove all references to those tools from your site now, or we'll have to take you to court.

Me: I'm already removing!

They: Thank-you for your cooperation.


Oh, well. It's been fun. I'm amazed at how well it spread in these two days (!), and I'm sure from now on you'll be able to find those tools in countless mirrors, p2p and the like.

Shine on!

R.
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