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Old 6th May 2005, 13:57   #21  |  Link
bond
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SMD: your problem is caused as yamb 1.1 tries to add the video stream twice to the .mp4!!!

you can see that by ticking "show commandline" in yamb, where you see the used cmdl, which shows that "-add ...avi" is used twice
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Old 6th May 2005, 14:38   #22  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
SMD: your problem is caused as yamb 1.1 tries to add the video stream twice to the .mp4!!!
Oh yea... so it does!



I guess a fix will be in the offing soon... Thanks bond


Quote:
Originally posted by bond
.divx and .xvid extensions in this context means raw mpeg-4 part2 streams BUT noone uses these extensions for that anymore! so i wouldnt list them at all
When DivX6 gets here, we will see the .divx file extension being used quite a bit!

It may be wishful on my behalf but it would be great, if when importing such .divx files, all their streams (the ones that are supported) appeared in YAMB


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 6th May 2005 at 15:10.
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Old 6th May 2005, 17:03   #23  |  Link
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...And while I was in "cut and paste" mode...

Here's my suggestion for inputting "Audio" streams: -




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Old 6th May 2005, 18:43   #24  |  Link
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Ok I'll change that but :
  • mp4a doesn't exist as far I know.
  • mp1, mp2 as input files are not supported by MP4Box.
  • what is it private streams ?




@Bond : could you clean this thread please...(i.e move the -new/-out comments in a new thread). Thanks.
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Old 6th May 2005, 20:38   #25  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Ok I'll change that but :
  • mp4a doesn't exist as far I know.
  • mp1, mp2 as input files are not supported by MP4Box.
  • what is it private streams ?
The .mp4a file extension did exist for a while but was quickly superseded when Apple correctly adopted the .m4a file extension for the iPod.

What a shame .mp1 and .mp2 elementary audio streams are not supported (same as, .m1v and .m2v elementary video streams)... I guess well have to wait a while longer for MP4Box.exe to incorporate it... Unless of course, you want to develop a muxing tool based around MPEG4IP

As for "Private Streams", that's a little joke for bond

But god only knows how many more people would use the .MP4 container if someone developed a "Private" way of muxing .AC3 audio into .MP4


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Old 7th May 2005, 12:58   #26  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
When DivX6 gets here, we will see the .divx file extension being used quite a bit!

It may be wishful on my behalf but it would be great, if when importing such .divx files, all their streams (the ones that are supported) appeared in YAMB
seemoredigital, you dont seem to get it...

yamb is "only" a gui for mp4box! if mp4box doesnt support it you can list as many extensions in yamb as you want, it will NOT work...

the upcoming .divx format is a modified .avi, it will mean a lot of work for jeanlf to incorporate it fully, and i think he has better things to do than to support this format.
especially as people can never get enough... if he officially supports .divx, they will ask for chapter, subs support and whatnot.

i think before asking for support for lots of different things (.divx, .m2v, .mp2 aso...), which mean defacto more work for jeanlf (and less work on much more important things), they should use their mind and realise whats possible already in mp4box, and than you will find out what drachir posted, that you can simply mux your .m2v or .mp2 to .mpg and than import this with mp4box. is this really that hard?
i get the feeling that people ask for more and more features and tools just for the sake of their own lazyness to learn and think...

Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Here's my suggestion for inputting "Audio" streams: -

"AAC files: *.aac, *.mp4, *.m4a, *.mp4a
hell, plz NO
what do i write that much for in this thread and the whole forum, to explain how the whole thing looks like technically???
DONT mix up raw .aac and .mp4/.m4a!!! the one is a raw format and the other one is a container. these are totally different things!!!

apart from that .mp4 can also contain lots of other audio formats than aac, so whats the point of listing .mp4 as "aac audio", if you have mp2/mp3 audio maybe stored in it???
can you imagine the confusion of newbies on such files? can you imagine all the questions? whats the point?

than whats the point of listing things NOONE uses, like .mp4a?? for the sake of having as much as extensions listed as possible?
dont you realise how these things only lead to confusion for newbies? "what is .mp4a?" "is .mp4a something different than .mp4/.m4a"? "how can i create .mp4a?" "why does tool X dont support .mp4a?" hell...


and simply because lots of people ask for ac3 support in .mp4, it doesnt mean that it makes any sense at all. the last thing i want to see in .mp4 is ac3...
if you target hardware player playback, hell use .avi. no need to mess around with .mp4!

sorry, that i am getting angry, but yamb had a nice and clear input format layout and than comes this proposal, i hope Kurtnoise13 will not change this...

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Old 7th May 2005, 12:59   #27  |  Link
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Quote:
@Bond : could you clean this thread please...(i.e move the -new/-out comments in a new thread). Thanks.
yeah, i will clean it up once this whole discussion finds an end
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Old 7th May 2005, 15:21   #28  |  Link
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Hi,

Guys, I need you...could you test this early version, especially the Audio part. It seems it doesn't work properly with two or more audio files. I'm checking this part now.

Thanks for your feedbacks.
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Old 7th May 2005, 16:05   #29  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Guys, I need you...could you test this early version, especially the Audio part. It seems it doesn't work properly with two or more audio files. I'm checking this part now.
- the used cmdl changes when i mark one audio stream in the audio tab (when two are present) and doesnt add both audio streams to the cmdl
- overwrite an existing file ticking doesnt lead to that "-new" gets added to the cmdl
- for the output file, the extensions doesnt get automatically added to the filename
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Old 7th May 2005, 17:49   #30  |  Link
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I get what you mean bond....

My suggestion for YAMB's "import stream" layout was following on from how it's presented in mp4UI's GUI: -



I must admit I took it for granted that MP4Box.exe would be able to mux more stream types than it actually does Especially, given that it has only just recently been greatly improved

I guess I am getting rather over enthusiastic!

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
and simply because lots of people ask for ac3 support in .mp4, it doesnt mean that it makes any sense at all. the last thing i want to see in .mp4 is ac3...
if you target hardware player playback, hell use .avi. no need to mess around with .mp4!
Hey... I did not say I support the idea... I'm simply passing on other peoples points of view... And if adding support for .AC3 in .MP4 is all it's going to take to get more people to move over from .AVI to .MP4 then it has to be worth considering.

When it comes to .MP4 container support in stand-alones, the player manufacturers have really managed to confuse the end-user by not offering a decent method of getting 6Ch AAC audio out of their players. As you know, many players only offer 2No analogue outputs (including the new high-def capable devices) and those players that have 6No analogue outputs are unable to pass/map the AAC channels correctly... And when you try and explain to people why AAC audio can't be decoded via (optical or electrical) S/P-DIF connection, this only upset them more... and drives them away from considering/using the .MP4 container

Like I say, a lot of people like that idea of the .MP4 container. They like the fact that it can support chapter selection and subtitles etc... And they like using Recode2. But they are getting really confused as to why they are unable to listen to 6Ch (5.1) audio


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Old 7th May 2005, 17:50   #31  |  Link
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Hi Kurt,

As bond (and your good self) already mentioned, it does not appear to be able to mux 2No AAC streams with Mpeg4 video.

It also is completely unable to mux .mp3 streams with Mpeg4 video. And when adding chapters... the application "dissapears" from the desktop!

EDIT: Does MP4Box.exe support the "extraction" of Mpeg4 video from out of the .MP4 container?

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
yeah, i will clean it up once this whole discussion finds an end
Maybe you could move all my crap onto an "MP4Box wish list discussion" type thread?


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Old 7th May 2005, 19:01   #32  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
- the used cmdl changes when i mark one audio stream in the audio tab (when two are present) and doesnt add both audio streams to the cmdl
- overwrite an existing file ticking doesnt lead to that "-new" gets added to the cmdl
- for the output file, the extensions doesnt get automatically added to the filename
for the overwriting, I disable this option for the mux. It's not a bug.

Ok for the other things. I'll fix that.
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Old 7th May 2005, 19:07   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
It also is completely unable to mux .mp3 streams with Mpeg4 video. And when adding chapters... the application "dissapears" from the desktop!
huh...try w/o audio files please and tell me what happend. I think that issue comes from audio part. I didn't change anything concerning "chapters" part.

Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
EDIT: Does MP4Box.exe support the "extraction" of Mpeg4 video from out of the .MP4 container?
if your video is stored into avi container yes otherwise I don't know.
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Old 7th May 2005, 20:23   #34  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
huh...try w/o audio files please and tell me what happend. I think that issue comes from audio part. I didn't change anything concerning "chapters" part.
The muxing of "video only" Mpeg4 in .MP4, Mpeg4 in .CMP and Mpeg4 in .AVI works perfectly without AAC or mp3 audio

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
if your video is stored into avi container yes otherwise I don't know. .
Being able to de-mux Mpeg4 video streams out of .MP4... would be kinda cool.


EDIT: With regard to "chapter importing"....
If I input the streams in the following order YAMB muxes fine....
* Chapter file (.txt)
* Mpeg4 video stream (.avi)
* AAC audio stream (.aac)

If I input the streams in the following order the YAMB GUI dissapears....
* Mpeg4 video stream (.avi)
* AAC audio stream (.aac)
* Chapter file (.txt)


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 7th May 2005 at 20:36.
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Old 7th May 2005, 21:17   #35  |  Link
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Kurtnoise13: thx for your work

uhm... about this:

Quote:
I did not say I support the idea... I'm simply passing on other peoples points of view... And if adding support for .AC3 in .MP4 is all it's going to take to get more people to move over from .AVI to .MP4 then it has to be worth considering.
If some app would support muxing AC3 into mp4, i really dont think anyone would care. AC3 in MP4 kinda weakens the point of using MP4. MPEG4 ASP + AC3 in MP4 does not have any realistic benefits over MPEG4 ASP + AC3 in AVI.

Other than that it would take away development time from things that truly are important ("converting" people from AVI to MP4 is not important, no one here benefits from that, only Nero. And it certainly isn't a good idea if you are going to do it by destroying the essence of MP4). If standalone manufacturers dont create devices with proper 6 ch AAC support they should fix that and not patch it with good old AC3.
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Old 7th May 2005, 21:30   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
for the overwriting, I disable this option for the mux. It's not a bug.
?
i dont get the point then?
if the option means that an existing .mp4 should be overwritten (which is what i assume) than you have to use -new, cause if not using it the streams will get simply added to the existing .mp4

Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
EDIT: Does MP4Box.exe support the "extraction" of Mpeg4 video from out of the .MP4 container?
of course it does!
mp4box supports the demuxing of any stream in .mp4/.3gp to raw and to .mp4/.3gp (eg extract only one track of a multitrack .mp4 to a new .mp4) and it even supports extracting mpeg-4 asp from .mp4 to .avi

Quote:
Originally posted by stephanV
AC3 in MP4 kinda weakens the point of using MP4. MPEG4 ASP + AC3 in MP4 does not have any realistic benefits over MPEG4 ASP + AC3 in AVI.
my words
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Old 7th May 2005, 21:42   #37  |  Link
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Yep... All good points Stephan...

Quote:
Originally posted by stephanV
... If standalone manufacturers dont create devices with proper 6 ch AAC support they should fix that and not patch it with good old AC3.
Agreed... but you try convincing the player manufacturers of this (like I have been trying to)... They just don't think 6Ch AAC audio is important enough...

When I asked Keith Jack (of Sigma) in Nov 2004 about player manufacturers adding sufficient RCA/phono outputs to enable 6Ch AAC audio, this was his response: -
Quote:
I wouldn't hold my breath even though the audio DSP can handle it. Although I originally spec'd 5.1, until now, there has been no requests for it. And we [Sigma] are now focused on implementing the more advanced audio codecs.
More advanced audio codecs eh! I wonder how people are supposed to listen to these on future players using their exising DSS amps?

My point to Keith Jack was... Why did Sigma supply development kits to manufacturers (or allow them to build their own boards) without 6No RCA/phono outputs!

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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 7th May 2005 at 21:47.
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Old 7th May 2005, 21:45   #38  |  Link
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player manufacturers are bringing lots of bad excuses for why they dont support something

fact is when lots of consumers request it, they will support it. if noone uses it, why waste time (aka money) supporting it
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Old 7th May 2005, 21:54   #39  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
player manufacturers are bringing lots of bad excuses for why they dont support something
Very true!

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
fact is when lots of consumers request it, they will support it. if noone uses it, why waste time (aka money) supporting it
But most consumers don't know what they need to listen to 6Ch AAC audio (or DVD-A and SACD for that matter). They assume they can simply plug their players into their DSS amps via S/P-DIF and get surround sound

If they don't know... they can't request it!

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
of course it does!
mp4box supports the demuxing of any stream in .mp4/.3gp to raw and to .mp4/.3gp (eg extract only one track of a multitrack .mp4 to a new .mp4) and it even supports extracting mpeg-4 asp from .mp4 to .avi
Great....

Yes please Kurt


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 7th May 2005 at 21:59.
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Old 8th May 2005, 08:23   #40  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
?i dont get the point then?
if the option means that an existing .mp4 should be overwritten (which is what i assume) than you have to use -new, cause if not using it the streams will get simply added to the existing .mp4
of course...you're right. But I would say that I didn't add yet this command in my code. That's why you don't see anything.


@SMD :
Quote:
mp4box supports the demuxing of any stream in .mp4/.3gp to raw and to .mp4/.3gp (eg extract only one track of a multitrack .mp4 to a new .mp4) and it even supports extracting mpeg-4 asp from .mp4 to .avi
In the early version, you can extract any streams in mp4 to raw format (I included a *Movie Info* box to help people to choose the stream. You did'nt see this feature ? ) and any streams from avi file.
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