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Old 3rd January 2002, 20:04   #1  |  Link
passport
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CCE SP 2.6 DVD Settings

Source Input: DV AVI file captured from firewire via Adobe Premiere.
Regardless of file size, I want to achive a high quality DVD. Anyone has CCE settings to get a high quality? Would it be CBR at high birate or VBR? Which one is better in term of quality? Settings in CEE mpeg2 are confusing. Please help me by posting those settings...Thanks
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Old 7th January 2002, 09:12   #2  |  Link
kdiddy
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"I want to achive a high quality DVD."

Well you wont get this, unless you have capture ac3 5.1 surround. But I'l assume you mean DVD quality video. Also, I hope you captured at high resolution & bitrate possible, ie at least 720x480 with 5000 bps.

Defintely VBR, not CBR. DVD video specs allows for up to 9 mbps video bitrate, however most DVDs average around 5 mbps. I would do "Multipass" option with at least "3 passes", my range would be min-avg-max = 300,5000,9000. This will obviously change depending what bitrate you were able to capture with.

Under the "Video" tab, I would only check these:
- Add Sequence....
- Upper field first
- progressive frames
- Zigzag scanning order
- Luminace level: 0 to 255
- DC precision: Auto
- DAR: 4:3 if you have reg TV, 16:9 if you have widescreen

Dont mess with GOP options

I would advise against using CCE audio options as well. I would do audio with anoter method. The Azid GUI package preferably.

Quality Settings:
This is mostly personal choice. Mine is 20 on both filter & image quality.

My method is to first uncheck the output creation of all except the vaf output. I choose to create the vaf file only first. Once done, I go back into edit, into "Advanced", in that new box, over to the left. I set my "Bias" to 10. Then I recheck my video files and create those.

Again, these are work for me on my player/TV/with my eyes. CCE manual is actually pretty good. Read it, and play with other settings.
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Old 9th January 2002, 19:01   #3  |  Link
passport
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Thanks kdiddy. My setting is almost the same as yours, except progressive frames and Zigzag scanning order. I thought ypu would check progressive frames if your input source is progressive, and Zigzag scanning order if you make VCD (mpeg1).

"Also, I hope you captured at high resolution & bitrate possible, ie at least 720x480 with 5000 bps."

How do you translate 5000 bps? I always capture at highest resolution 720x480 (NTSC), including audio at 16 bit, 48kz. My input source is from either DV cam or VHS via Canopus ADVC-100 converter. Average data rate is always about 3.60MB/s (3.60 Mbits? I forgot). Can you go higher than that? What is the maximum data rate? Does anyone know program that captures (transfer) DV source to computer in two seperate files: video and audio?
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Old 9th January 2002, 19:22   #4  |  Link
kdiddy
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Well my source is progressive and actually zigzag works best at LOW bitrates, regardless of mpeg1/mpeg2...but I only do SVCDs, I forgot you wanted to do DVDs, so then for your high bitrate, then NO zigzag scanning is what you want.

actaully my 5000 bps should actually read 5000 kbps or 5 mbps.

mbps = megaBITS per second MB/s = megaBYTES per second

8 bits = 1 byte
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Old 9th January 2002, 19:35   #5  |  Link
mb1
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forget kdiddy´s settings. they are crap for interlaced DV-material !
u can use them only for progressive material like dvd-ripping ...

DV is a given standard with 3.61 MB/s.
You cannot store audio and video separately (means 2 files) within DV-standard.

There are two DV-file-formats:
DV-avi Type 1 stores audio and video separately but within one single stream.
DV-avi Type 2 stores audio and video combined also (of course) within one single stream.

Make a Multipass=2 (means 3 passes !) with bitrates
min 3.000 kbps
avg 5.000 - 6.500 kbps depending on how many minutes you want to store
max 7.800 (because some author-proggies complain bitrates higher than 8.000)
Audio with 192 kbps 48 kHz 16bit stereo should be done separately with tmpeg using toolame f.e.

Video settings:

add sequence end code selected
upper field first deselected as dv-avi is always bff
all other settings also deselected
luminance 16-235
intra DC 10
Aspect ratio 4:3 or 16:9 depends on your needs
but be aware that most low cost authoring programs only allow 4:3
GOP 3/5/1 for PAL and 3/4/1 for NTSC
no other settings selected in GOP-tab

Quality settings
image quality priority 10
no anti noise filter especially for interlaced material as this filter produces many ghost artefacts

With this settings you should get pretty well quality (only beaten if you do more optimizations like tv-overscan and macroblock etc. but that´s another story ...)

In combination with some mpeg2-filters cce has a field order bug. It always encodes top field first no matter what you select. For dv you need bottom field first (= top field first no !).
Check that with bitrateviewer
http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm

On tv-sets you then have pretty flickering in movements.

Solution:
use Darims Easy Changer to change field order without reencoding.
if you can´t find post an email and I`ll send it.
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Old 9th January 2002, 21:16   #6  |  Link
passport
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I appreciate your help mb1. This is me Passport. One of my friend uses my user name to post message here. It might confuse people here why I post everrything.

I wonder why you deselect upper field first. I capture it with lower field first. I encode it with upper field first and play back on TV, it looks normal, no jumping or upside down.

For my input avi source, you would recommend deselect anti noise filter?


I use Premiere to extract audio from AVI file and encode it with Softencode. There is no problem with audio. I want to save time by capturing in 2 files. It takes about 10 minutes to extract audio on my P4 1.7Ghz.

I don't edit. I just capture and use stand alone CCE to encode it.
Thanks everyone

Last edited by passport; 9th January 2002 at 21:21.
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Old 10th January 2002, 01:59   #7  |  Link
mb1
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We`re talking about DV-avi. DV-avi always has bottom field first.

I capture with scenalyzer live and there is no field order setting at all (for pure capture) because changing that would violate DV-standards.

If you then encode with upper field first you have wrong field order.
That has to be wrong so it has to be visible.
Could not explain your observations ...

I´m also curious why you convert to .ac3 ?
You lose a lot of time and get no better quality than with high mp2-bitrates such as 192 or 224 for your stereo sound.
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Last edited by mb1; 10th January 2002 at 02:02.
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Old 14th January 2002, 09:30   #8  |  Link
raybeck
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if i remember correctly, if u use Bitrate Viewer to READ ur vob file first, it will generate a RESULT. this result will tell u exactly which settings to CHECK, so just match this RESULT to ur CCE settings...
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Old 14th January 2002, 19:31   #9  |  Link
passport
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Thanks all. I use multipass VBR with 3 passes, bitrate average 4500 and max 5000. I keep default setting except Mpeg Standard. It looks great on TV and there are no visible artifacts, except areas with complex effects. These are need higher birate though. I would use advanced setting to set local bitrates for these areas.

Thanks mb1, I use tmpge to encode audio and it works great!
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Old 15th January 2002, 20:57   #10  |  Link
cap4000
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scenalyzer live will capture a seperate .wav file. Great for cleaning up audio if needed ( just don't change the lengh) then use what ever software for ending up with the mpeg 2. I have just used premier and add the avi and the audio into the time line and then export movie using cce cbr. I have been only doing lenghts of an hour or so...
Will try vbr experiments in the future to bring file size down.
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Old 17th January 2002, 15:06   #11  |  Link
beadie the dragon
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Darims Easy Changer

Mb1,

Could you email me a copy of Darims Easy Changer or send a link to :

beardie_the_dragon@hotmail.com

Many thanks
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Old 22nd January 2002, 02:54   #12  |  Link
Faceman101
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I'd also like to try Darims Easy Changer. I searched for it, all sites were in German and wasn't sure about what to download. Looked like a MPEG Encoder or Toolkit.

toto911@hotmail.com If you don't mind.
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Old 30th January 2002, 00:42   #13  |  Link
gvhoofst
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Mb1,

Could you email me a copy of Darims Easy Changer or send a link to :

gvhoofst@hotmail.com
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Old 21st February 2002, 18:14   #14  |  Link
passport
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Anyone sees this error "cce encoding failed: VBR VBV ovf frame# 4946 (01:02:44:28) I 25232 max 24878.22 pln 23693.54 rel 353.78 1.01 qsv 96->95.28"? This error is from CCE 2.62. For CCE 2.64, it would freeze at frame# 4946 (it stays idle, can't kill CCE). When I select or deselect some settings, it fails at different frame (frame# 4940 to 5020). Note that there is about 3 seconds of very complex effect from frame# 4940 - 5020. When I select "Standard" in Quantize Matrices setting and leave everything to defaults, it would work. If I select "MPEG Standard", it would fail. It fails all CBR, one-pass, or multipass VBR mode.

My source:
1. DV avi captured from Mainactor via firewire from Sony DV deck or Canopus AD converter( for analog-digital conversion).
2. Encoding MPEG2 birate 5000-5500 (I do DVD encoding).
3. Select "MPEG Standard" in Quantize Matrices setting, leave others to defaults.

Note: TMPGEnc encodes this footage ok.
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Old 22nd February 2002, 15:47   #15  |  Link
nitely
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Mb1,


Could i have the Darims easy changer ,too.


Thanks a lot

nitely2k@yahoo.com
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Old 27th February 2002, 12:46   #16  |  Link
VideoClipper
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Mb1,

Thanks for explaining settings.
For those looking for the 'Darim Easy Changer':
download the demo codec version at h++p://www.darvision.com
the changer is included in this demo.
Enjoy.

Last edited by VideoClipper; 27th February 2002 at 13:13.
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Old 28th February 2002, 02:49   #17  |  Link
Faceman101
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It's in the DVMPEG demo. Changer.exe in the folder, let me just say this: it's amazing. Helps me out BIG time. For all of those curious or needing, go get this puppy. Works like a charm.
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