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Old 9th February 2005, 17:11   #81  |  Link
Sir Didymus
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@SeeMoreDigital:
Yes. These applications (may) demux audio by cell-id. This way some audio header info is missed and MuxMan (correctly) complain about. A proper way to demux audio is following the PGC; give a try to PgcDemux (by Jsoto):
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84778

An alternative solution is to manually add one (or more) "silence frames", having the right header info set, to the demuxed audio, but then you have to take into account of the added audio delay. The "silence" tool is available at the Jsoto Home Page.

A third solution (maybe it is the primary workaround...) has been reported to adopt some audio manipulation suite (do not remind which one specifically), to import the file and to export it to a new (or to the same) format, with the heading info properly set...

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Edit: Got it!

I finally remind where a similar discussion started:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...hlight=silence

Last edited by Sir Didymus; 9th February 2005 at 17:49.
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:04   #82  |  Link
Malcolm
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in case you remember: we talked about optionally supporting nonstandard GOP lengths. (relaxed check of GOP lengths). You asked what GOP lengths i usually encounter with DVB recordings. My results so far are that i have not encountered GOP lengths > 20.
So imho it would be great if muxman accepts video files with GOP lengths greater than the standard DVD length of 15 (18).
maybe a checkbox for enabling the relaxed check will do. or muxman simply outputs a warning afterwards if GOP lengths are > 15 (18) instead of refusing the video.

Greetings,
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:12   #83  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
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Thanks very much Sir Didymus

By-the-way, has anybody had any luck muxing PAL Mpeg1 video with MuxMan... Can it do this?


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Old 10th February 2005, 22:20   #84  |  Link
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@Malcolm - the next version, which is in alpha testing now and available from my forum, has quite a few changes in this regard. In order to support field_pictures the GOP tables were expanded to 36 entries (max for NTSC) and the limit set to 36 regardless of tv standard or picture_structure (field or frame). Muxman is only concerned about table overflow now.
btw I think (but have no samples) the longer gop's in DVB are the result of field encoding during high motion. But whatever the cause, version 12 should handle it.
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:21   #85  |  Link
mpucoder
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I haven't tried PAL mpeg1, but NTSC mpeg1 works OK. The only thing to watch for is the PAR - Muxman will accept 3 or 8 for PAL, 6 or 12 for NTSC. It will not accept square pixels (1).

Last edited by mpucoder; 10th February 2005 at 22:23.
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:24   #86  |  Link
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o.k.! Thank you very much!
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:45   #87  |  Link
The Geek
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I tried it with PAL MPEG-1 and it works fine.
But I had to select the option "All files", as with "usable video files" the m1v file did not appear.

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Old 10th February 2005, 22:47   #88  |  Link
mpucoder
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I'll add that extension to the list.
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Old 10th February 2005, 22:59   #89  |  Link
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is it possible to have muxman align audios.. right now it puts one audio after each other (as well as each video) but if you have an audio that does not match the duration of the video it goes with, the next video/audio sequence will be out of sync. an option to have a non-seamless connection between the pairs so audio always matches would be cool. obviously this means having a way to determine 'pairs'. anyways.. food for thought
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Old 10th February 2005, 23:09   #90  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by mpucoder
I'll add that extension to the list.
That would be most useful thanks!

When I mux PAL Mpeg1 I get this: -




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Old 11th February 2005, 00:20   #91  |  Link
The Geek
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@SeeMoreDigital

That has nothing to do with the MPEG-1 format itself. Your file simply has GOPs that are too long. The DVD Video Standard limits a GOP length to 15 frames (for PAL).

That is very common with DVB, for example. What you need to do is to re-encode the oversized GOPs (so you replace an oversized GOP with two smaller GOPs, so that the DVD Video specification are met).
I use Cuttermaran + TMPGEnc to do that with DVB Streams.

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Old 11th February 2005, 11:02   #92  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Geek
That has nothing to do with the MPEG-1 format itself. Your file simply has GOPs that are too long. The DVD Video Standard limits a GOP length to 15 frames (for PAL).

That is very common with DVB, for example. What you need to do is to re-encode the oversized GOPs (so you replace an oversized GOP with two smaller GOPs, so that the DVD Video specification are met).
I use Cuttermaran + TMPGEnc to do that with DVB Streams.
Thanks Geek,

So does this mean I'm going to have to re-encode the entire Mpeg1 stream then. Meaning another bounce down in quality

I guess when the DVD Video Standard was being created for PAL content, making the GOP length 25 frames instead of 15 would have been "too easy" and obvious....

But I have to admit I'm somewhat of a newbie when it comes to DVD structures.


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Old 11th February 2005, 11:46   #93  |  Link
The Geek
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Quote:
So does this mean I'm going to have to re-encode the entire Mpeg1 stream then.
It means exactly what I said, nothing more, nothing less. You have to re-encode the oversized GOPs.
I never said anything about re-encoding the DVD compliant GOPs, too. Obviously, they don't have to be re-encoded, as they are already DVD compliant

Now it depends on how many oversized GOPs you have in your MPEG-1 Stream. If every GOP is too long, well, then yes, you have to re-encode the whole thing.
DVB recordings only have a few of them. I've done that with 4 King of Queens Seasons from DVB-S, that are about 90 episodes (a few are still missing). I think 15 oversized GOPs in one episode was the maximum I've seen so far, all other episodes had around 10.
Using a high bitrate (6500 kbps), I don't see a quality loss. A GOP is short, and DVB-S ain't block-free anyway. With a low bitrate I was able to see the difference, but with 6500 I am not.

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Old 11th February 2005, 15:36   #94  |  Link
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Or you could use version 0.12, either when it comes out or the alpha version from my forum. This version addresses two problems related to DVB - GOP size and field pictures. Actually I think they are the same problem, that is the large GOPs are the result of field (vs frame) encoding for high motion, but I have no examples. The next Muxman doubles the table size to accomodate field encoding to 36 and removes the tv standard based limit.

As for the DVD standards, they do not discriminate. The number of frames is based on time, 0.6 seconds to be exact (25x0.6 = 15, 30x0.6 = 18, the NTSC limit)
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Old 11th February 2005, 15:44   #95  |  Link
The Geek
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Quote:
Actually I think they are the same problem, that is the large GOPs are the result of field (vs frame) encoding for high motion, but I have no examples.
I can't confirm that. Oversized GOPs occur also at low motion and even still scenes. And they do not always occur in the same scenes.
In my example, with 80 king of queens episodes, sometimes the intro has no oversized gops at all, and sometimes it has one or two. And the intro is always the same.

On the other hand, you can encode field based MPEG streams with max. 30 fields in a GOP.

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Old 11th February 2005, 15:56   #96  |  Link
mpucoder
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This is why I thought occasional field encoding might be the culprit. The actual limit is 30 (or 36 for NTSC) fields, regardless of picture_structure. And a GOP can contain a mixture of field and frame encoded pictures. But until version 0.12 there was no code to recognize and properly multiplex field encoded pictures, so the internal table limit was set to 18 pictures (regardless of type).
In version 0.12 it does not matter what the tv standard limit is, so long as there are no more than 36 pictures per GOP - it still has to protect against table over-indexing.
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Old 11th February 2005, 17:08   #97  |  Link
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Re: MuxMan 0.9 released

Quote:
Originally posted by mpucoder
Available here

New features:
Supports multiple video files
Able to import and encode bmp images as mpeg-2
Can make slideshows using any combination of motion video, pre-encoded stills/slides, and bmp images.

As always, compliance tested.
It would be very useful, if MuxMan could result as a simple "name.mpg" file and NOT ONLY a full strcture DVD folder(with VOB files etc.)
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Old 11th February 2005, 19:39   #98  |  Link
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MuxMan keeps rejecting BMP files.(0 file accepted, 1 files rejected)using version 0.11c

does the BMP have to be 720x480?or does it resize it?
i'm i doing something wrong?

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Old 11th February 2005, 19:51   #99  |  Link
mpucoder
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From readme.txt:
"Image files (bmp) must be 720x480 or 720x576 and get encoded as mpeg-2."
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Old 11th February 2005, 21:03   #100  |  Link
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yes, thank you
i thought i did that but the preset in photoshop was NTSC D1 720x486. didn't see that. should have selected NTSC DV preset.
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