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Old 6th January 2005, 18:14   #1  |  Link
DSP8000
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How to achieve "film look" on PAL DV source

Hi AVIsynth gurus,

I'm just looking for avisynth solution how to make our newborn baby video to have "film look"
The source is PAL DV.

Tnx. in advance

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Old 6th January 2005, 18:15   #2  |  Link
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deinterlace it.
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Old 7th January 2005, 05:55   #3  |  Link
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Thanks scharfis_brain, but what I meant was something similar like Magic Bullet Movie Looks.
I can use it within Vegas but it's sooo slooow.

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Old 7th January 2005, 06:01   #4  |  Link
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send me a before/after Magic-Bullet example.
I do not know, how magic bullets output looks like.
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Old 7th January 2005, 10:29   #5  |  Link
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the later builds of ffdshow can apply dust-and scratch, flicker, noise, lines, etc. you can save a preset from ffdshow config, and load that in avisynth as a plugin. deinterlace first, then run this thing.

also, you can grab a still-frame of your source and mess with the curves in photoshop, then export an ".amp" file from curves (put it on pencil mode to save this format), then load that into RGBlut in masktools.

that stuff should be enough.

but a word of warning - film look is a little too trendy, and in a few years you may regret using such an effect

oh, and it's a bit late now, but i hope you shot your movie in 1/50 shutter speed, or it'll look like the start of "saving private ryan" (and not in a good way).
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Old 7th January 2005, 11:36   #6  |  Link
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Magic Bullet can add a combination of deinterlacing->24p/25p/deartifacting and colorgrading+low/high burns/glows to a videoclip. It's not for the 'old flim look' with scratches, dust and grain.

Magic Bullet review

Btw. the Bleach Bypass effect of 'Ryan' can be achived by faking the actual lab process of not cleaning out the b&w of the b&w+color combi, by copying your color videoclip, making the new clip b&w, and then mixing the color clip with the b&w clip. Then you will get that high contrast, faded colors look of 'Ryan'. Tutorial

Tin2tin

Last edited by Guest; 10th January 2005 at 18:25.
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Old 7th January 2005, 14:26   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guest
Magic Bullet can add a combination of deinterlacing->24p/25p/deartifacting and colorgrading+low/high burns/glows to a videoclip. It's not for the 'old flim look' with scratches, dust and grain.

Magic Bullet review

Btw. the Bleach Bypass effect of 'Ryan' can be achived by faking the actual lab process of not cleaning out the b&w of the b&w+color combi, by copying your color videoclip, making the new clip b&w, and then mixing the color clip with the b&w clip. Then you will get that high contrast, faded colors look of 'Ryan'.

Tin2tin
I think you may be able to achieve some of the color tone variations from the picture contained in the article you posted, by using gradients and the overlay function in avisynth.



Maybe the following Gimp tutorial could be adapted to avisynth. I realize that the tutorial is for toning B&W images, but I think the technique could also be applied to color video.

Gimp Toning Tutorial

Thoughts?
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Old 7th January 2005, 14:47   #8  |  Link
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most of that stuff can be mimiced with a good deinterlacer, masktools, and the ability to generate colour-curve presets in photoshop (that's the only part that's not free, i suppose, but it's not essential).
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Old 7th January 2005, 14:53   #9  |  Link
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http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jhw/filmy/
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85024

very detailed guide how to do it i photoshop, and teh thread i found it in
IMO it's a lil exegarated
most important IMO is the color/saturation/whatever-the-exact term is and if possible the sharpening
everything else is finetuning

a filmlook project in avisynth would IMO be interesting
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Old 7th January 2005, 16:35   #10  |  Link
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oh, and it's a bit late now, but i hope you shot your movie in 1/50 shutter speed, or it'll look like the start of "saving private ryan" (and not in a good way).
Funny, that is exactly what we discused over @ Vegas forums
Your method is very long proces for me, all that can be done in Vegas with color curves, color correction, deinterlacing, however, by doing this I can get close to Magic Bullet but NOT the same.

The actual "deinterlacing de-artifacts" on MB web look more like de-blocking,smoothing, which can be easy done with AVIsynth.
But the "coloring" just amazes me.
There must be some sort of faster process with AVIsynth, MB is painfully slow, even on faster PC's.

Quote:
most important IMO is the color/saturation/whatever-the-exact term is and if possible the sharpening
everything else is finetuning

a filmlook project in avisynth would IMO be interesting
I agree fully

Quote:
most of that stuff can be mimiced with a good deinterlacer, masktools, and the ability to generate colour-curve presets in photoshop (that's the only part that's not free, i suppose, but it's not essential).
Mug Funky, can you please do something about that, I'm not that advanced user with masktools, I presume kernel deint. would be good solution.

tnx,
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Old 7th January 2005, 18:05   #11  |  Link
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Someone bring down to the point what's the exact difference between "live" footage and "film look", regarding spatial image information, and the according scripts will spring up like mushrooms.
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Old 8th January 2005, 02:45   #12  |  Link
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Very often the term "film look" is misunderstanded as the "old" film like 1960's dust,scratches,lines...

The point is, with today's modern technology regular miniDV user can achieve almost identical final results as the movies we see on DVD's.
Providing that this can be done software wise instantly reduces the overal cost for making great looking home movies.
On top of all this, providing that this can be done in AVIsynth the cost is none,zilch.

I think that almost everyone here has miniDV, shooting techniques combined with carefull planing of your project and final pre/post processing can look as close as the Hollywood movies.
All of these factors are making great need for clever AVIsynth scripting to achieve "The Hollywood Film look"

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Old 8th January 2005, 03:17   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mug Funky
...and the ability to generate colour-curve presets in photoshop.
How would these photoshop colour-curve presets be applied in avisynth. I guess what I am asking is what avisynth filter or function would you use to apply them? Overlay? Tweak? ColorYUV? Masktools? or would a new plugin need to be created. As far as creating the colour-curves for free couldn't presets be created in "The Gimp" and built into a function say:

Toning("bleached", startframe, endframe, strength) or
Toning("warm-fuzzy", startframe, endframe, strength) etc.

Edited to include photo from Magic Bullet Suite:


or if you wanted to make a custom color-curve

CustomColorCurve("c:\custom-color-curve.gcurve", startframe, endframe, "YlevelsC=0,4,255,0,255",saturation, contrast)

Excuse my exuberance. As an amateur videographer the potential of this is all pretty exciting to me.

Last edited by Macanudo; 9th January 2005 at 05:01.
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Old 8th January 2005, 08:04   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Didée
Someone bring down to the point what's the exact difference between "live" footage and "film look", regarding spatial image information, and the according scripts will spring up like mushrooms.
I don't know if this is of any value but here is a download link for the Magic Bullet Suite manual

Magic Bullet Suite Manual
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Old 9th January 2005, 00:51   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Didée
Someone bring down to the point what's the exact difference between "live" footage and "film look", regarding spatial image information, and the according scripts will spring up like mushrooms.
well, in computer science the actual coding never is the biggest part of the project

as i said there are 2 main steps:

-sharpening
no lack of things to try here

-colors
well, i can't put teh difference in words
have a look at that site i linked, the first step there is an exegarted example including some explaination and a curve-file
maybe that'll help you
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Old 9th January 2005, 04:51   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by E-Male
well, in computer science the actual coding never is the biggest part of the project
Depends on the definition of "big". For sure the actual coding mostly is the annoying part. Having the idea is the fun part. (And I'm still in search for my personal coding slave ).


Quote:
sharpening



Quote:
colors
That's of course the point. But to draw the conclusion right here: there's no such thing like "the" [one and only] film look. There's a rather big number of different techniques that are used from a big number of different studios. Basically one could make anything, and say "that's my 'film look'."


Quote:
have a look at that site i linked
Yes, we had that site mentioned already some time ago.


Quote:
maybe that'll help you
Uh, I didn't know that I was the one being on this particular mission?


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the first step there is an exegarted example including some explaination and a curve-file
Currently I'm away from that of my rigs that has Photoshop installed (besides, I never use it, anyways.) A diagram'ed visualization of those curves would be nice to see. It's better to create something with formulaes through MaskTools's LUT functions, instead of *requiring* AMP files from Photoshop. It's not an application that's present on each and every machine.

Quite some of the steps' techniques of that site's example are similar to what I'm currently implanting into LS-EX. Perhaps (perhaps!) there's time to make an excusion.

Oh, another problem is, one should have DV sources to start with. Having only film sources available isn't a very good base for playing with such processing. I hand the torch on
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Old 9th January 2005, 09:45   #17  |  Link
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i can't add anything to that for the moment
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Old 9th January 2005, 14:59   #18  |  Link
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okay, i've got something going that looks pretty nice on a quick DV shot of myself (i'm not posting this one...):

- deinterlace (i'm using MVbob.selectodd())
- make a blurred clip (bilinear down*2, bicubic(1,0) up)
- greyscale the blurred clip
- run limitedsharpen on the source
- merge the greyscale blurred with the sharp by 33%
- convert to rgb
- apply a preset photoshop .amp file generated from Curves.

the only problem is RGBlut - it doesn't behave as expected with an ampfile. it seems to tint the clip red. perhaps it's only applying the red curve? maybe it's got the channels swapped? who knows. i'll post in the masktools thread so manao can have a look.

one big problem i found with the consumer-level DV camera i've used (and others i've used too) is that it only appears to shoot in 360x576! there's point-upsize artefacts on it. to remedy this (and speed up the deinterlace) i've horizontalreduceby2'd the clip, then lanczos'ed up to 720 again. this helps A LOT. i've experimented with a 32 point FFT lowpass from cooledit (ported to yv12convolution), and the lanczos upsize looks pretty much the same, so that's a big help.

[edit]

disregard the above... i tripped up on the "R=3,G=3,B=3" bit.

[edit 2]

oh, wait. it still doesn't process anything but red... hmm. i'll check my version because this is kinda weird.

[edit... etc]

latest version, still no reds
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Old 9th January 2005, 15:07   #19  |  Link
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one big problem i found with the consumer-level DV camera i've used (and others i've used too) is that it only appears to shoot in 360x576!

For some analogue camcorders I can approve this:
Cheap analogue camcorders had low resoluted CCDs, that showed stairstepping even in a composite signal...
(about 352x576 to 480x576)

But for DV I cannot approve this.
Never seen stairstepping of the horizontal axis.

Of which camera model are you talking about?
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Old 9th January 2005, 15:28   #20  |  Link
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a sony one that i can't recall the model of (pretty old, ca 2000), a canon one (very new - mvsomething), and a panasonic NV-DS15 that i have in front of me. [edit] all PAL

it's a strange effect - i don't know if it's the DV compression or the de-bayer used, but it's not a perfect stairstep - there's a bit of variation in it, but basically it's half-width and point-resized (or really lousy linear, but i doubt it).

i can post frames if you like.
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