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Old 21st December 2004, 08:09   #81  |  Link
lark
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Re: unreferenced material

just a wild quess,

Quote:
Originally posted by blueboyec
The third time I processed this DVD with VOBblanker and skipped VTS 7 them copied the original VTS 7 to the process DVD folder and did a get VTS with ifoedit.

...

I then moved the original VTS 7, 12, and 13 to the processed DVD folder did a get VTS with ifoedit and ran it through DVDrebuilder and all when well.
could the magic lie in the get vts in ifoedit...?
i.e. that fixes something that vobblanker broke?

regards
t
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Old 21st December 2004, 08:52   #82  |  Link
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Quote:
could the magic lie in the get vts in ifoedit...?
i.e. that fixes something that vobblanker broke?
I believe no. What blueboyec is doing is manually replacing some VTSs after VobBlanker runs, and, after that, you need to do a "get VTS sectors".

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Old 21st December 2004, 09:37   #83  |  Link
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yep, i sure know, you need to do that,
but what i was trying to propose, was that perhaps there's something wrong (or extra) in the IFOs that vobblanker creates, since copying the over the original VOBs and running get vts sectors fixes the problem for RB...

but as said, this was just wild quess.

btw i've never had problems with vobblanker ;-)

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Old 21st December 2004, 09:39   #84  |  Link
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Re: unreferenced material

Quote:
Originally posted by blueboyec
jsoto,

Read somewhere in the tread that vobblanker automatically removes unreferenced material. DVDrebuiler always chokes in the rebuilding phase when trying to process a VTS that had its unreferenced material removed by vobblanker. Requesting that unreferenced material be automatically blanked (not remove) to prevent DVDrebuilder from choking. Hope this is possible?
Hi blueboyec.

Have to totally disagree with your statement. I remove Unreferenced Material in a systematic way (always using VobBlanker) and never had any issue feeding DVD-RB with VobBlanker processed material...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jsoto
I've to confess I cannot follow DVD-RB forum (it is very active) but I usually do a search trying to find potential VobBlanker issues. What I see is some hard DVD-RB testers recomending VobBanker as a preprocess step to DVD-RB...
Me being one of them..., and I follow very carefully the DVD-RB forum. I can guarantee you that if I had even the minimun problem related by sure to VobBlanker, I would have reported it in this forum...

Quote:
Originally posted by blueboyec
I forgot that after processing DVD with VOBblanker I always use DVDshink to shrink menus and remove non English audios. Could this be the cause of the problem? Will also send you the ifos processed with DVDshrink.
Dont't want to give answers to your question, but adding some ones (in the given order) to you:
- why using a third applications for removing audio streams ? Rebuilder does the job properly and flawlessly.
- why don't you simply check if just VobBlanker+Rebuilder work properly or not (I will be very surprised of the contrary...) ?
- if you have to reduce menus, and you get into some troubles, why don't you try to produce an oversized encoding, shrinking the menues after the Rebuild step ?

Cheers,
SD

Edit: me voting for keeping the process as it is: if unreferenced material is actually unreferenced it means it is not playable. So removal, IMHO, is the proper way of handling them...

Last edited by Sir Didymus; 21st December 2004 at 09:56.
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Old 21st December 2004, 19:01   #85  |  Link
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unreferanced material

jsoto,

Sent you the ifo files. Ran the Seinfeld disk with only VOBblanker preprocessing and RB choke on VTS 7 rebuilding phase. Will do more testing by skipping processing of each individual VTS that have unreferanced material to see if RB only chokes on these VTS and report back in a couple of day. Just trying to trouble shoot.

all

thanks on the comments.
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Old 21st December 2004, 23:06   #86  |  Link
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Re: Re: unreferenced material

Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Didymus
Edit: me voting for keeping the process as it is: if unreferenced material is actually unreferenced it means it is not playable. So removal, IMHO, is the proper way of handling them...
Me too. Get ridda the rubbish!
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Old 22nd December 2004, 22:02   #87  |  Link
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@blueboyec

Mmm, I've seen a reordered VOB with some holes in ADT table: This is the summary:
CID/VID 1/1
CID/VID 1/5
CID/VID 1/3
CID/VID 1/6

I've authored a DVD with the same order in the VOB and IFO and start DVD-RB on it without any problems.

But, to be sure, could you change the following VOBID/CELLID, using VIDChanger in single cell mode

FROM 1/5 TO 1/2
FROM 1/6 TO 1/4

And test again?

jsoto

VIDChanger steps:
Select MODE=Single Cell
Load VTS_07_0.IFO
Select in Cell list combo 1/5
In New Vob Cell, select 1 as VobId and 2 as CellId
PROCESS!
Select in Cell list combo 1/6
In New Vob Cell, select 1 as VobId and 4 as CellId
PROCESS!
You're done.
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Last edited by jsoto; 22nd December 2004 at 22:17.
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Old 23rd December 2004, 23:34   #88  |  Link
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I believe I've found the problem. But seems to me not easy to solve...
I'm geting an Error #0003 in DVD-RB (rebuild phase) using a similar processed VOB.
Is it the same you are experiencing?

This is the original VOB layout:
Code:
[00000000] 	Number of VOB IDs in VTS_VOBs	1	[0001]
[00000004] 	End byte of VTS_C_ADT table	79	[0000004f]
[00000008] 	  1. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000000a] 	  1. Cell: Cell ID	1	[01]
[0000000c] 	  1. Cell: Start sector	0	[00000000]
[00000010] 	  1. Cell: End sector	134936	[00020f18]
[00000014] 	  2. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000016] 	  2. Cell: Cell ID	2	[02]
[00000018] 	  2. Cell: Start sector	134937	[00020f19]
[0000001c] 	  2. Cell: End sector	136798	[0002165e]
[00000020] 	  3. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000022] 	  3. Cell: Cell ID	3	[03]
[00000024] 	  3. Cell: Start sector	136799	[0002165f]
[00000028] 	  3. Cell: End sector	242782	[0003b45e]
[0000002c] 	  4. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000002e] 	  4. Cell: Cell ID	4	[04]
[00000030] 	  4. Cell: Start sector	242783	[0003b45f]
[00000034] 	  4. Cell: End sector	244650	[0003bbaa]
[00000038] 	  5. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000003a] 	  5. Cell: Cell ID	5	[05]
[0000003c] 	  5. Cell: Start sector	244651	[0003bbab]
[00000040] 	  5. Cell: End sector	377583	[0005c2ef]
[00000044] 	  6. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000046] 	  6. Cell: Cell ID	6	[06]
[00000048] 	  6. Cell: Start sector	377584	[0005c2f0]
[0000004c] 	  6. Cell: End sector	377619	[0005c313]
As you can see, cells 1/2 and 1/4 are very small. They are both unreferenced material.

These are the PGCs:
Code:
		
  	PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [00:18:58.21 / 30 fps] (Programs: 4) (Cells: 4) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)		
   	  [Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id:  1/ 1]          : time: 00:06:31.02 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:06:31.02] [Frames: 11732] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id:  1/ 5] Layer Br.: time: 00:07:05.23 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:13:36.25] [Frames: 24505] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id:  1/ 3] Layer Br.: time: 00:05:20.16 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:18:57.11] [Frames: 34121] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] [V/C Id:  1/ 6] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.10 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:18:58.21] [Frames: 34161] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   			
   	PGC_2 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 2] [00:06:32.12 / 30 fps] (Programs: 2) (Cells: 2) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)		
   	  [Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id:  1/ 1]          : time: 00:06:31.02 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:06:31.02] [Frames: 11732] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id:  1/ 6] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.10 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:06:32.12] [Frames: 11772] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   			
   	PGC_3 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 3] [00:07:07.03 / 30 fps] (Programs: 2) (Cells: 2) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)		
   	  [Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id:  1/ 5]          : time: 00:07:05.23 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:07:05.23] [Frames: 12773] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id:  1/ 6]          : time: 00:00:01.10 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:07:07.03] [Frames: 12813] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/ no]		
   			
   	PGC_4 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 4] [00:05:21.26 / 30 fps] (Programs: 2) (Cells: 2) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)		
   	  [Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id:  1/ 3]          : time: 00:05:20.16 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:05:20.16] [Frames: 9616] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]		
   	  [Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id:  1/ 6] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.10 / 30 fps     [Pos: 00:05:21.26] [Frames: 9656] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/ no]

After VobBlanker process, VOB layout is:
Code:
[00000000] 	Number of VOB IDs in VTS_VOBs	1	[0001]
[00000004] 	End byte of VTS_C_ADT table	55	[00000037]
[00000008] 	  1. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000000a] 	  1. Cell: Cell ID	1	[01]
[0000000c] 	  1. Cell: Start sector	0	[00000000]
[00000010] 	  1. Cell: End sector	134936	[00020f18]
[00000014] 	  2. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000016] 	  2. Cell: Cell ID	5	[05]
[00000018] 	  2. Cell: Start sector	134937	[00020f19]
[0000001c] 	  2. Cell: End sector	267869	[0004165d]
[00000020] 	  3. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000022] 	  3. Cell: Cell ID	3	[03]
[00000024] 	  3. Cell: Start sector	267870	[0004165e]
[00000028] 	  3. Cell: End sector	373853	[0005b45d]
[0000002c] 	  4. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000002e] 	  4. Cell: Cell ID	6	[06]
[00000030] 	  4. Cell: Start sector	373854	[0005b45e]
[00000034] 	  4. Cell: End sector	373889	[0005b481]
and, using VIDChanger it could become
Code:
[00000000] 	Number of VOB IDs in VTS_VOBs	1	[0001]
[00000004] 	End byte of VTS_C_ADT table	55	[00000037]
[00000008] 	  1. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000000a] 	  1. Cell: Cell ID	1	[01]
[0000000c] 	  1. Cell: Start sector	0	[00000000]
[00000010] 	  1. Cell: End sector	134936	[00020f18]
[00000014] 	  2. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000016] 	  2. Cell: Cell ID	2	[05]
[00000018] 	  2. Cell: Start sector	134937	[00020f19]
[0000001c] 	  2. Cell: End sector	267869	[0004165d]
[00000020] 	  3. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[00000022] 	  3. Cell: Cell ID	3	[03]
[00000024] 	  3. Cell: Start sector	267870	[0004165e]
[00000028] 	  3. Cell: End sector	373853	[0005b45d]
[0000002c] 	  4. Cell: VOB ID	1	[0001]
[0000002e] 	  4. Cell: Cell ID	4	[06]
[00000030] 	  4. Cell: Start sector	373854	[0005b45e]
[00000034] 	  4. Cell: End sector	373889	[0005b481]
which is "ordered" again.

As you can see, all Cells in all playback tables are type=2, meaning a discontinuity in SCR and PTSs, with the exception of PGC #3 (cells 5 & 6)

But SCR (I'm guessing now) is "continuous" or, at least it always go up in the original VOB,
but not in the VobBlanker processed one (please note "re-ordering" the VOB using VIDChanger just change VID/CID but not the SCR,
so the problem is not solved) I believe this kind of SCR irregularities are not well accepted by DVD-RB.

@blueboyec:
Could you cut your VOB (VTS_07_1.VOB) with Cutfile from 134850 up to 136826 (using 2048 bytes per block) and send it to me? I'd like to see the Navpacks inside.
(The resulting file will be 4046848 bytes. If you are on dialup, I'll try to find other way.)

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Last edited by jsoto; 23rd December 2004 at 23:40.
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Old 24th December 2004, 18:41   #89  |  Link
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jsoto,

DVDrebuider GOOD/chokes on VTS 7 says:

All good:
- Processing VTS_07
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 2
- Rebuilding segment 2 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 3
- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 4
- Rebuilding segment 4 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 5
- Rebuilding segment 5 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 6

Cokes:

- Processing VTS_07
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1
- Rebuilding segment 1 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 5 it cokes here and quits

Based on your write up and the above info I do believe the problem is the reordering. This hardly ever happens so maybe we can live with it.

Do not have the original DVD anymore, give it back my sisterinlaw, if I can get it back I will try to do as you ask. Most of the things you are asking me to do are foreign to me but I will try? Will not be able to do until after new years.

Hope you and your family have a happy holidays. And as always, thanks for the great program and your hard work!
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Old 24th December 2004, 18:53   #90  |  Link
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Quote:
I do believe the problem is the reordering
No, this is not the problem. I was able to rebuild unordered DVDs without problems. I believe the problem is the SCR "discontinuities" due the deleted material.

Quote:
This hardly ever happens so maybe we can live with it.
I hope so.
I do not want to modify SCR/PTSs. Sure I'll introduce more bugs than the things I can fix. However, I should do it when cutting part of the middle of a cell..

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Old 24th December 2004, 19:11   #91  |  Link
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jsoto,

Would blanking the Unreferenced Material, not deleting them, solve the problem? If not, I beleive we can live with VOBblanker as is. Do not want more problems introduced to solve something that hardly ever happens.

Forgot to report that DVDrebuilder was able to process VTS 12 and VTS 13 and they had Unreferenced Material. DVDrebuilder only ckoked on VTS 7, odd.

thanks

blueboyec

Last edited by blueboyec; 24th December 2004 at 19:15.
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Old 24th December 2004, 20:05   #92  |  Link
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Quote:
Forgot to report that DVDrebuilder was able to process VTS 12 and VTS 13 and they had Unreferenced Material
Ah!!. So I believe the problem occurs when SCR goes backwards in the VOB (which is not the case of VTS12 & 13, it only in 07).

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Old 24th December 2004, 20:57   #93  |  Link
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jsoto,

I am glad that the info I am postings is helping because I do not understand the inner workings of DVDs (SCRs tables etc). Glad there are programing experts here at Doom9 like you to help us that are just users. Is there anything else I can look at that can help.

Thanks

Blueboyec
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Old 31st December 2004, 18:51   #94  |  Link
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I still hadn't gotten familiar with VobBlanker. I had a little problem backing up RE2 with DVD Decrypter but finally got it done. Then editted with DRM. I noticed others say they ripped RE2 with no problem using VobBlanker. My question is does VobBlanker remove all those protections like DVD Decrypter or must AnyDVD or DVD43 be running in the background?
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Old 31st December 2004, 19:06   #95  |  Link
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Wheelie4,
do you mean prohibited user operations (POUs)? i don't think vobblanker can but ifoedit and pgcedit can. or if there in the vob you can check out vobPUO 0.1 ->edit POUs in VOBs
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Old 31st December 2004, 19:11   #96  |  Link
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No not PUO's, I was refering to the others like CSS, Macro, RPC.

Last edited by Wheelie4; 31st December 2004 at 19:18.
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Old 31st December 2004, 19:17   #97  |  Link
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no vobblanker does not do that. but i never had a problem with DVD Decrypter, IMHO it's the best one out there.
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Old 31st December 2004, 19:21   #98  |  Link
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I never had a problem with DVD Decrypter until RE2. It's commented here by the maker of DVD Decrypter.
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Old 31st December 2004, 21:36   #99  |  Link
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Just to clarify: VobBlanker is able to remove (not edit) the PUOPs in IFOs and even in VOBs. You have two checkboxes in the GUI (default checked) for this.
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Old 31st December 2004, 21:42   #100  |  Link
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Thanks jsoto and sweetness. I saw the PUOP IFO/VOB removal options. I just wasn't sure about CSS, RPC and Macro removal.
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