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Old 16th November 2004, 03:49   #1  |  Link
ursamtl
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V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter VST Plugin Suite

V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter VST Plugin Suite
V.I is a 2-input, 6-output VST plugin that converts a two-channel stereo input to a six channel output in 5.1 format.

Also included: fLfR, CLFE, and sLsR are 2-in/2-out VST plugins duplicating V.I’s effects in channel pairs in VST hosts that do not support 2-in/6-out multichannel plugins:
  • fLfR duplicates V.I’s front channels:
  • CLFE duplicates V.I’s Center and LFE channels:
  • sLsR duplicates V.I’s rear surround channels:
(Note: the plugin “II” that was distributed with Beta versions of V.I has been replaced by sLsR.)

Contents of This Guide
Features
New Plogue Bidule Layouts
Required Software
Using V.I with Plogue Bidule
Using V.I in Steinberg Cubase SX Or Nuendo
Using V.I with audio editing programs or players
V.I Web Site
Feedback

Features
These plugins server as a follow-up to the original V.I bidule layout and incorporates several improvements. Here are some of its notable features.
  • Width correction helps compensate for source files that were mixed too narrow or too wide.
  • Independent controls for adding ambience to the front or rear soundstage.
  • Pass-through of original left and right signals ensures accurate reproduction of original stereo imaging (when not in Movie Mode).
  • Companion fLfR, CLFE, and sLsR VST plugins duplicate V.I’s effects in channel pairs in VST hosts that do not support multichannel plugins such as V.I
  • (Guide coming VERY soon)
  • Movie Mode switch redirects some dialog frequencies from front left and right channels to the center channel to enhance dialog while still maintaining a good stereo soundstage.
  • On/off control for A-B monitoring of effect.
  • Switchable LFE channel.
  • V.I has been tested in various multichannel hosts such as Plogue Bidule, Audiomulch, Sound Forge 9, and Steinberg Cubase SX or Nuendo versions 2.x or later.
  • The 2-in/2-out fLfR, CLFE, and sLsR plugins have been tested successfully in Adobe Audition 1.5-2.0, Steinberg Wavelab 5.0, Kristal Audio Engine, Cakewalk Sonar 5 Producer Edition, and Sony Vegas 6.
V.I is a VST plugin designed to convert a stereo input to a 5.1 audio output. You can then encode this data into a surround sound file using appropriate software.

V.I cannot go back into a recording studio and separate the original multitrack audio into separate channels, but it can extract ambience information embedded in the stereo audio and redistribute it among 5.1 channels for playback on home theater equipment capable of decoding surround sound information. Recording engineers, audio engineers and enthusiasts have been doing this kind of thing for years in one way or another. V.I simply combines some of their techniques in one VST plugin.

Yeah but isn't V.I just "double stereo" with some filters
No, V.I is not just "double stereo." I'll get technical for a minute. To ensure a stable soundstage, V.I starts with the original front left and right channels from the stereo source file, but then it builds on them with a combination of crosstalk cancellation and second-order Ambisonics for the front ambience. Try the slider called Front Ambience and see how you like it. Even without any rear channels, the sound on some recordings seems to jump out of the speakers and take on a life of its own! For the rear surrounds, V.I extracts ambience using a modified second-order Ambisonic approach. In fact, inside the V.I plugin, there are over 300 software connections similar to the kinds you would find in modular programs such as Plogue Bidule, Audiomulch, etc. This may sound complicated but the result is a smooth, natural surround effect.

As for filters, there are only two: one for the LFE if you choose to use it, another for Movie Mode, again if you choose to use it. Any other sound that seems to be filtered is just the natural result of proven Ambisonic techniques.

If you have a computer with a 5.1 soundcard and speakers, try listening to music going through V.I and then switch it off and on a couple of times using the button on the plugin. Whenever you turn V.I on, notice how the instruments and sounds seem to remain in basically the same place but suddenly become three-dimensional as if you were standing in the room with them.

Required Software
You can download V.I VST Suite here (3.8MB):
V.I Suite Installer or V.I Suite Zip file
IMPORTANT#1: This installer automatically checks your PC's registry for the current shared VST Plugins folder and defaults to installing the plugin in this folder. Be sure the VST host program you use (Plogue Bidule, Cubase, Nuendo, etc.) is set to read this directory. If your system does not have a default VST directory, the V.I Suite installer will place the files in a subdirectory of your Program Files folder called "V.I Suite." Of course, you can change this during the installation to whatever destination you wish.

IMPORTANT#2: The process of extracting ambience from a stereo recording can result in files that occasionally contain transient peaks exceeding 0dB, resulting in distorted sound. If your playback levels are too high, you may damage your equipment, and at the very least end up with a distorted file. Always use a limiter on the V.I, fLfR, CLFE, and sLsR outputs. These plugins are free to use at your own risk. The author of the V.I Suite plugins, Steve Thomson, assumes no responsibility for any damage as a result of their use or misuse.

Don't let this warning dissuade you, just be careful with your levels and follow directions.

Using V.I with Plogue Bidule
For Plogue Bidule users, I’ve created three Bidule layouts for V.I on its own, or with additional reverb effects for the rear channels. The V.I Suite installation program prompts you at the end to install these layout files if you have Plogue Bidule. If you don't currently have Bidule but intend to get it at some point, you can still install the layouts anyway. The installer will place them in your V.I Suite support files directory.

All three layouts feature a “5.1 OUTPUT” group that implements two essential tools used by professional sound engineers, dithering for converting output files to 16-bit format, and limiting to prevent clipping. You'll also need to install additional files available from other third-party sites. For links to the files and instructions, see:Using V.I in Steinberg Cubase SX Or Nuendo
To use V.I with Steinberg Cubase SX or Nuendo versions 2.x or later, see:Using V.I with audio editing programs or players
V.I guides on Other Sites
V.I Web Site
For instructions on using the V.I controls, see the manual PDF that's installed with the software or check out the V.I web site.

Feedback
If you have any questions or comments about V.I or its companion plugins, please feel free to contact UrsaMtl.

Happy surrounding!
UrsaMtl

Last edited by ursamtl; 17th April 2007 at 22:49.
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Old 16th November 2004, 03:52   #2  |  Link
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GUIDE: Using V.I with Plogue Bidule

GUIDE: Using V.I with Plogue Bidule

Additional Required Software
In addition to the V.I Plugin Suite, you'll also need the following:

Plogue Bidule
V.I VST Bidule Layouts (included with the V.I Suite installation program)
mda Dither
Classic Master Limiter

If you want to try the two layouts with reverb, you’ll need the following two VST plugins:

Classic Reverb
SIR

For free, top-quality reverb impulse responses, check out Noisevault

New Plogue Bidule Layouts
Three new Plogue Bidule layouts allow you to use V.I on its own, or
with additional reverb effects for the rear channels.



On its own, V.I allows you to extract a lot of the existing ambience in a stereo recording. However, if you have a source file with
minimal ambience, or if you just want a more expansive, ambient soundfield, you can use either of the following:


Bidule Layout with Classic Reverb


Bidule Layout with SIR (if you want to try impulse responses)

About the 5.1 OUTPUT Bidule Group



The 5.1 OUTPUT bidule group provides you with a way of adjusting the final 5.1 outputs from V.I so that you'll get the most professional sounding conversion possible. It uses two freeware VST plugins, the Kjaerhus Classic Master Limiter and Maxim Digital Audio's mda dither, to provide you with the same kind of tools that professionals using commercial programs use to ensure top-quality mixes.

Limiting
A limiter works by detecting any volume peak that exceeds a preset threshold and limiting or reducing the peak so that it stays below the threshold. The 5.1 OUTPUT bidule group features four instances of, Kjaerhus Classic Master Limiter to prevent any levels from overloading in the digital file and clipping the sound. One instance limits the L and R outputs, another is dedicated to the C channel, a third acts solely on the LFE channel, and a fourth limits the surround L and R. If you leave all controls to the right, only the occasional peaks that exceed a threshold of -0.2dB are reduced. Everything below that level remains unchanged, thereby ensuring transparent sound. Professional sound engineers use limiting all the time for this very reason.

Using limiting creatively
With a bit of careful adjustment (that means not too much!), you can even use the limiter on the LFE channel to tighten up the bass, or the limiter on the center channel to provide a form of rudimentary dialog clarity for movie soundtracks. This is because reducing the threshold value causes the limiter to boost the level of all sound waves below the threshold by a corresponding amount. In other words, if you set the threshold to -2dB, all the audio waves in the track are boosted by 2dB. However, since the limiter does not allow anything to go higher than the threshold level, you are actually compressing the sound. Now, this can be bad (especially if you're a purist!), or this can give you a tool for improving the sound of your surround mix, providing you use the control carefully and with restraint! For example, if you reduce the threshold on the LFE channel, you effectively boost the deep bass level but without over-loading it. If you reduce the threshold level on the C channel, you can even out the difference be-tween the quiet and loud passages of dialog in a movie so that it's easier to understand. You can also lower the threshold on the front or surround left and right channels to give the overall mix a bit more of a sense of punch.

Be careful with any of these controls, giving them more than a quarter to a third of a their range (or a half for the LFE channel) can reduce the dynamic range of the music and result in a kind of distortion that will ruin the sound of the resulting surround mix. In fact, this is a problem with a lot of modern com-mercial recordings. Many speak of something called the "loudness race." Different record companies try to make their product sound louder with the idea that it will sound more attractive. The result can sometimes be really horrible! Remember, It's not about being the loudest, it's about sounding good! When used properly, these controls can give your surround project a more professional sound.

Dithering
The other main feature in the 5.1 OUTPUT group is dithering. All internal processing in Plogue Bidule oc-curs at 32 bits. A standard 16-bit stereo file is automatically converted to 32-bit floating-point format (if the file is already 32-bit, then it's passed through without modification). It's well known that if you down-sample a digital file from 32- to 16-bit format, you need to apply something called dithering to avoid audible artifacts. The simple 32-bit output file? checkbox in the 5.1 OUTPUT group toggles the dithering on or off. If the box is checked, the output will remain a 32-bit file and no dithering is needed. If you clear the box, then the dithering plugins (three instances to cover all six channels) are automatically turned on.
Important: you still have to set the output file format on Bidule's Audio File Recorder. The 32-bit output file? checkbox in the 5.1 OUTPUT group is set up in the layouts I've provided to turn the Audio File Re-corder to 24 bits, (Bidule's parameter linking mechanism didn't provide a way to switch to 32-bit files). The difference between a 24-bit file and a 32-bit file is minimal and basically inaudible.

Unless file space is a real issue, you should try to leave your files in at least 24-bit format. Saving to a 32-bit file will provide no advantage with the currently available encoding software since it outputs 24-bit files only.

Step-By-Step Instructions
For a detailed, step-by-step guide for conversion using Bidule-based methods, see Step-by-Step Instructions for Plogue Bidule-based Stereo-to-Surround methods. At Step 4 in that guide, be sure to load the V.I VST layout you wish to use and adjust the controls as explained in the V.I manual.

Last edited by ursamtl; 25th June 2006 at 14:50.
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Old 16th November 2004, 08:13   #3  |  Link
daphy
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WOW!

Hey Steve, now I now why you are that bussy this days
I will host those files this afternoon!

Quote:
All three Bidule layouts feature a new “5.1 outputs” group that implements two essential tools used by profes-sional sound engineers, dithering for converting output files to 16-bit format, and limiting to prevent clipping.
nice

One request, can you please add some detailed screenshots for Nuendo usage, I´ll guess using this app is not that easy for most of those guys

I hope my wife gives me that spare time to check this out extensively ...
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Old 16th November 2004, 13:52   #4  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by daphy WOW!

Hey Steve, now I now why you are that bussy this days
I will host those files this afternoon!
Thanks. Yes, busy with this along with everything else.

Quote:
Originally posted by daphy One request, can you please add some detailed screenshots for Nuendo usage, I´ll guess using this app is not that easy for most of those guys

I hope my wife gives me that spare time to check this out extensively ...
I don't have Nuendo myself but a friend who tested V.I and II in Nuendo is going to give me screen grabs in the next few days. Once I have them, I'll add them to the thread.

As for your wife, maybe you might try converting some of her favorite music to 5.1, and perhaps buy her some flowers and chocolates.

Regards,
Steve.
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Old 16th November 2004, 15:37   #5  |  Link
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By the way, I'm also going to be posting directions for using the II plugin in Adobe Audition in the near future. If anyone has any experiences to share, please feel free to contact me.

Steve.
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Old 16th November 2004, 17:18   #6  |  Link
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This is the best stereo to surround conversion method that I've heard so far.
Lots of choices,options,VST hosts...
The Nuendo conversion is not that simple as described but works.
OctoMaxx does sound sort of like stereo limiter if it's not controled in the 5.1 bus.
IMHO I preffer the Bidule layouts.
Once again you prove that there are some realy talented people here.
Good work Steve.
Oh, can you please post your Nuendo layout(work template) and VST presets.

Thanks again

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Old 16th November 2004, 18:37   #7  |  Link
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Thanks for the feedback! Yes, the Nuendo method is difficult to sum up in a few words. Once I have the Nuendo screen grabs and info, I'll post as much as I can. I agree that OctoMaxx or any limiter can color the sound if one doesn't exercise restraint with the controls. Still, I like putting a brick wall there to prevent clipping.

I also like Bidule for its flexibility. It can be downright addictive to sit down and start playing with it!

Steve.
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Old 16th November 2004, 19:25   #8  |  Link
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@ all

Needfulthings is fixed and updated and contains the full package in one file!

THX Steve

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Old 16th November 2004, 20:20   #9  |  Link
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Links added. Thanks Daphy!
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Old 21st November 2004, 09:47   #10  |  Link
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@Eye of Horus

forum rule #4

how can you be mocking him, what gives you the right to judge his' works.

as for DSP8000, if you think there's a better guide, point him to it, instead of calling him igorant (pretty much imply)

if you're really leaving, bit of advice:

the earth isn't round, it's oval.
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Old 22nd November 2004, 14:58   #11  |  Link
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Using V.I in Steinberg Cubase SX or Nuendo
The latest versions of Steinberg Cubase SX and Nuendo offer professional multichannel audio production and support for multichannel VST plugins such as V.I VST.

For more information, see the separate thread GUIDE: Using the V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter in Nuendo and Cubase.

Regards,
Steve.
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Old 24th November 2004, 01:42   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by oayz
Ursamtl,
I guess I'm doing something wrong but the output of V.I.VST SIR is 6ch silent wav. It's not all zeroes but when I open it with SoftEncode I've got 6 flat lines. I did try Offline mode as well as 16, 32 and 24 bit outputs. Any ideas?

As a sanity check I've tried other modules (5.1SAD, VoiceCenter) and got nice 6ch waves.

It looks like some VST are not thound but I did unpack your distribution.

Thanks in adavnce for help or suggestions!
I'm answering your post in this thread since the other thread is for the old V.I. It makes more sense to discuss the problem you're having here so that others who might have the problemw will find the answer more easily.

I just checked the distribution file that Daphy put together and posted on Needfulthings. It installs the VST plugins in the default Plogue Bidule VSTPlugins folder. However, if you happen to have some other setup, you may have to transfer some files yourself.

The following files need to be in the folder set in Bidule's VST Plugins path, which you can access by choosing Preferences from Bidule's Edit menu.

VI.dll
Classic Reverb.dll
Classic Master Limiter.dll
II.dll
mda Dither.dll
SIR_1008.dll

This is in Plogue Bidule 0.700. If you still have the old version, be sure to go to www.plogue.com right away and download the new version. The old one expires tomorrow. This new one takes a bit of getting used to since the interface and window handling has changed, but I've tested it and had no problems.

Also, don't forget to download an appropriate impulse response from www.noisevault.com or elsewhere to use in SIR.

Let me know if this resolves your problem.

Steve.

Last edited by ursamtl; 24th November 2004 at 14:21.
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Old 24th November 2004, 06:37   #13  |  Link
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Ursamtl,

Thanks for speedy reply. I wonder where do you get time to play with the sound if you always online? :-)

Anyway, it still doesn't work but I think I'm getting closer to the problem. Browsing V.I. VST bidule and putting Primary Sound Driver(out) at diffrent places I found where the signal get lost. It is Classic Master Limiter. Inside there are 4 identical 2in/2out blocks. There is a signal at the input and there none at the output.

Since I'm not a master of biduling (yet I stuck. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 24th November 2004, 06:52   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
I just checked the distribution file that Daphy put together and posted on Needfulthings. It installs the VST plugins in the default Plogue Bidule VSTPlugins folder. However, if you happen to have some other setup, you may have to transfer some files yourself.
It´s the default setting but you can use another path -> the complete VST-Pack installs in <progams>\steinberg\vstplugin so every one can use these VSTs with Nuendo or what ever!(also you have certainly the choice to use the plogue bidule path or any other path)

@oayz
my experiences are the same no output after bidule -> only empty 6WAVs(I also notified Ursamtl by PM)

@Ursamtl
are sure that nothing´s missing. Maybe in your major setup you have further VSTs avaible

@all
some of you guys managed to make these VSTs work - what have done diffrent as we did

Quote:
Also, don't forget to download an appropriate impulse response from www.noisevault.com or elsewhere to use in SIR.
I guess this theme needs another guide, SIR is not that easy to use, so a seperate thread on using it will be recommended!
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Last edited by daphy; 24th November 2004 at 06:55.
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Old 24th November 2004, 14:19   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by oayz
Ursamtl,

Thanks for speedy reply. I wonder where do you get time to play with the sound if you always online? :-)

Anyway, it still doesn't work but I think I'm getting closer to the problem. Browsing V.I. VST bidule and putting Primary Sound Driver(out) at diffrent places I found where the signal get lost. It is Classic Master Limiter. Inside there are 4 identical 2in/2out blocks. There is a signal at the input and there none at the output.

Since I'm not a master of biduling (yet I stuck. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for giving me this feedback since it helped me track down a serious omission on my part. Somewhere in posting or editing my guide, the link to Kjaerhus Audio's fine Classic Master Limiter plugin got deleted. In turn, since Daphy didn't have it when he packaged the all-in-one distribution, anyone installing from it would have problems with the bidule layouts. I apologize if this oversight caused anyone to waste a lot of time.

Just go to http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-master-limiter.php and download the plugin then install it in the folder set in Bidule's VST Plugins path, which you can access by choosing Preferences from Bidule's Edit menu.

Once this is in place, you should be good to go!

I've added the link to the bidule part of the guide and removed the all-in-one link until Daphy gets time to update his installer.

By the way, for those of you with problems using the bidule layout, Oayz used exactly the right technique here for troubleshooting. If a checkmark appears next to Offline Processing in the Edit menu, click on it to clear the checkmark. Then in Bidule's Palette, expand Audio Devices, choose one of the Output devices and click and drag it onto your workspace. (If you have an ASIO multichannel output, use it. If not, use the Microsoft Sound Mapper under MME). Next, connect outputs from different modules and groups throughout the signal flow to the output device until you find the module giving problems.

Hoping this helps,
Steve.

Last edited by ursamtl; 24th November 2004 at 14:26.
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Old 24th November 2004, 17:21   #16  |  Link
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okay, needfulthings is fixed!
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Old 24th November 2004, 18:49   #17  |  Link
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Ursamtl and Daphy,

Thanks for quick help. I new I was missing something :-) BTW, I don't think it's your fault. Bidule can and should be able to report missing groups or dlls. Seems like you know Bidule's author very well, maybe you can suggest him this new feature.

One other thing bothers me. I never sure if I got channel assignment right. I read guides, look on the waveforms, audit them but still. Is there any way to have a "test mode" to help in channel identification? Or maybe a test file?

Back to sounds!
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Old 24th November 2004, 19:03   #18  |  Link
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what kind of test file do you need?
there are several diffrent one on the @ndy´s FTP Server
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Old 24th November 2004, 19:10   #19  |  Link
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I know in the old version of Bidule, a group that was missing a VST would display in a different color, but I haven't had time to test this with the new version yet or to see if it's still the case when the VST is part of a nested group (a group within a group).

As for channel assignments, a test sound would be a good thing, yes. I'll try to implement it in the next version of V.I as a button that sends a short white noise pulse to each channel.

In the meantime, the assignments are L, R, C, LFE, sL, sR. I know when you load a 6-channel file produced with one of the V.I Bidule layouts into SoftEncode, the channels are not correctly assigned by default. This is because SoftEncode is a few years old and follows an older standard. It's easy using the icons in SoftEncode to re-assign the channels and I think having to do this is good as it forces one to review the channels at that point. For example, if there is sound in the LFE channel, it will look much less active than the others, so if it's not in the fourth channel from the top, there's a problem. You could always customize a bidule layout by resaving it under a different name and then routing the outputs to suit your needs.

Happy surrounding!
Steve.
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Old 24th November 2004, 19:27   #20  |  Link
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Test file to allow me to identify each channel. Ideally after the processing it would say "left","right","center" etc. in particular channel or at least "beep" there. Currently when I get my 6 channels out I never sure how they are assigned. What if I have FR swapped with RL? Right now I use a 2ch wav with distinctive left, right and center then match it with 5ch out, try to make a guess and compare with what is specified in the guide.

When I get more familiar with Bidule I'll trace signals in the layout and find the actuall channel assignment but it would be much easier if we could incorporate it as a part of the tool.

BTH, based on the number of questions related to channel ID it a pretty common problem especially considering that people use different tools to open 6ch wav.

Please don't consider it as request or something. It's just an idea and I'll try to find a solution on my own.
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