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Old 20th October 2004, 01:32   #1  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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RealVideo 10 "Winter 2004" update

Download:
Helix Binary Downloads


Readme.txt:

Changelog:
** 2004-12-06: Fix for rcBestPSNRMode introduced 11-24.
Affects all encodes. Please update when you have a chance.

** 2004-11-24: Fix for parameter firstPassComplexity. This
was in most cases ignored, and always set to 50 for the
new R/C and 65 otherwise.

** 2004-11-08: Fix for Medium EHQ complexity, which
almost no one is using. No need to update if you are not.

** 2004-10-28: fix for chromaModeDecision on
single CPU systems (no hyper-threading or multi-proc)
- chromaModeDecision always ON for EHQ 100

** 2004-10-25: added option <chromaModeDecision>
This option takes chrominance (or color) into
account when choosing the best encoding modes.

Fix: encodeAllFrames and rcBestPSNRMode would always
be ON if included in audience, if if set to 'false'

Fix: long standing bug where if Constant Quality less than 20-30
and EHQ greater than 70, bitstream could not be decoded. Thanks
to Satsuki for discovering the problem.

** 2004-10-22: fixed bug related to the new EHQ100


Here is an updated RV10 encoder DLL with some small changes
that have been added since the last release. This is not
all we have been working on, of course, but we figured it
would be useful to have this in the community.

Replace erv4.dll in Producer's codecs directory. Remember
to back up the existing one. This DLL may (as always)
contain new bugs...

1. Improvement to EHQ 85 and higher, additional coding mode

2. minor improvements to EHQ 100

These combined will provide some improvement
in quality, but not anything like EHQ did. There is no need
to perform detailed comparisons.

3. new option <chromaModeDecision>
This option takes chrominance (or color) into
account when choosing the best encoding modes.

3. new option <encodeAllFrames>, which in streaming RC mode
forces encoder to encode all frames. In curve compression RC mode,
this has always been the case, and the option is not needed when
the CC RC mode is used.

4. new option <rcBestPSNRMode>. In curve compression RC mode,
sets parameters in a way that testing has shown provide the
best PSNR, in addition to a small codec change. This may not
always correspond to best visual quality. This option is
mostly applicable to the new RC mode, not the old streaming RC
mode.

The settings rcBestPSNRMode imply are:
patternAdaptivity => 2
rcHighBitrateReduce => 60
rcPFrameRefQuant => 6
rcBFrameRefQuant => 12
+ the internal codec improvement
Experiments show an improvement generally
from 0.25 - 0.5 dB, but of course, your mileage may vary.


New options are used like this:
<codecProperties type="bag">
<chromaModeDecision type="bool">true</chromaModeDecision>
<rcBestPSNRMode type="bool">true</rcBestPSNRMode>
<encodeAllFrames type="bool">true</encodeAllFrames>
</codecProperties>

The same settings are available in the registry, standard location.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\RealNetworks\RV9]
"chromaModeDecision"=dword:00000001
"rcBestPSNRMode"=dword:00000001
"encodeAllFrames"=dword:00000001

Note that even though I listed both rcBestPSNRMode and
encodeAllFramesON, it really does not make sense to use both
at the same time, since encodeAllFrames applies to the old rate control,
and rcBestPSNRMode to the new rate control.

As usual, let us know of any problems.

-- Karl.
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Last edited by karl_lillevold; 10th December 2004 at 19:01.
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Old 20th October 2004, 01:42   #2  |  Link
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Cool! Releasing RealAnime 2.22
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Old 20th October 2004, 02:57   #3  |  Link
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Some tests

On my 2000+, using 1-pass CQ65 EHQ100, it takes ~4 sec to encode ~.5 sec
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Old 20th October 2004, 03:01   #4  |  Link
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I rolled back some initial EHQ100 changes, and now encoding speed at EHQ100 should be about the same as before, still with some improvement/bugfix included.
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Old 20th October 2004, 03:23   #5  |  Link
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I'll check my logs tomorrow to check if I go up to 3h / file. Speed is not that important, and I'm glad you did this update before winter, I'll be able to heat my room while encoding!
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Old 20th October 2004, 12:22   #6  |  Link
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Average 2h30 per file.
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Old 20th October 2004, 15:23   #7  |  Link
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1) RV10 seem to be better with high sensitivity for bframe. XviD regulate bframe number with BVOP sensitivity: perhabs a good idea for RV10 ... ?

2) Why RV10 put always 0, 1 or 3 consecutives bframes but never 2. RV10 seem to have no bug with 0, 1, 2 or 3 ? (I test that with first pass XviD stat file in producer for second pass ... lol)
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Last edited by Sagittaire; 20th October 2004 at 15:44.
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Old 21st October 2004, 12:51   #8  |  Link
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2-pass VBR seems faster than 1-pass CQ
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Old 21st October 2004, 15:09   #9  |  Link
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Sagittaire:
1) I am not sure I understand.. "high sensitivity for B frames".. RV10 also decides # of B frames based on video complexity, but there is always room for improvement.
2) In particular this aspect can be improved. The frame queue implementation has made it hard to include 2 when the number of B frames is to be decided (1st), but not a problem in a fixed pattern, or when specified in the .pass file (nice experiment you did..!). This too is something that will be improved one day.

Sirber: "seems"
There is an invention called a stopwatch. You press a button to start a timer, then press again to stop the timer. The stopwatch will then display the amount of time that has passed from the time you pressed the start button until you pressed the stop button. It is sometimes quite useful

1-pass CQ at 100 might be slower than 2-pass at 85, since the 1st pass is always very fast. At the same EHQ, 1-pass will be faster.
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Old 21st October 2004, 16:43   #10  |  Link
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My encode is finished.

1-pass CQ65, EHQ100: average 2h30
2-pass VBR, EHQ65/100: average 2h30
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Old 21st October 2004, 16:46   #11  |  Link
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Sirber: nice. shows that 2-pass 1st past is super fast, and 2-pass is great to achieve a target filesize/bitrate.
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Old 21st October 2004, 17:42   #12  |  Link
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The patternAdaptivity was set to 2 in the rcBestPSNRMode, does this also give the best psnr for anime? I remember reading the patternAdaptivity = 1 gives the best result for anime sometime ago.

The second question is that does rcBestPSNRMode override rcHighBitrateReduce and other setting it changed in jobfile?
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Old 22nd October 2004, 17:39   #13  |  Link
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I fixed a bug that was introduced with this update, related to EHQ100. Download same location as given in first post. Thanks again to Sirber for finding it.

haibane: sorry for the delay. I don't know whether or not the 'shortcut' rcBestPSNRMode always results in best PSNR for anime. For your second question, see my post below.
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Old 22nd October 2004, 18:17   #14  |  Link
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From my test, in general, oldRC and CQ gives the best results for anime content.
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Last edited by Sirber; 22nd October 2004 at 18:23.
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Old 22nd October 2004, 18:53   #15  |  Link
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haibane: All "uint" types are set before "bool". Thus, 'rcBestPSNRMode' will over-ride all "uint" settings. So if you want your own settings for the parameters rcBestPSNRMode is a shortcut for, you have to remove the rcBestPSNRMode parameter.
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Old 22nd October 2004, 18:55   #16  |  Link
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I think that Average PSNR isn't a good tool for testing Rate Control quality: Overall PSNR or Frame PSNR graph are very better. Average PSNR must be very better with CBR than VBR. For example sample with very long/very "low motion" part and very short/very "high motion" part done very better Average PSNR for CBR.

Best PSNR mode for RV10 use rcHighBitrateReduce = 60. it's a very high reduction for bitrate modulation. Quality is higher for "low motion" but worst for "high motion". it's a very good strategy for Average PSNR but not for Overall PSNR.
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Last edited by Sagittaire; 22nd October 2004 at 19:08.
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Old 22nd October 2004, 18:58   #17  |  Link
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Sagittaire: I agree. the rcBestPSNRMode shortcut is not meant for anything but experiments, and to show that best PSNR does not correspond to best visual quality, or constant quality.
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Old 23rd October 2004, 11:51   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Sagittaire:
1) I am not sure I understand.. "high sensitivity for B frames".. RV10 also decides # of B frames based on video complexity, but there is always room for improvement.
For example with XviD BVOP sensibility ...

sensibility = -25:
Code:
i 6 680 0 0 1971 1953
p 6 113 547 20 3217 1154
p 6 293 354 33 4034 1703
p 6 353 327 0 4917 2047
p 6 45 622 13 4485 1246
p 6 88 591 1 4021 1416
p 6 54 610 16 4277 1233
p 6 53 625 2 4185 1314
p 6 85 595 0 4645 1374
p 6 41 638 1 4751 1296

sensibility = 0:
Code:
i 6 680 0 0 1971 1953
b 10 0 680 0 445 373
p 6 270 384 26 4143 1591
b 10 0 680 0 1134 437
p 6 470 210 0 5525 2218
b 10 0 680 0 894 334
p 6 261 419 0 5564 1898
b 10 0 680 0 1195 353
p 6 327 352 1 5655 1979
b 10 0 680 0 1562 397

sensibility = +25:
Code:
i 6 680 0 0 1971 1953
b 10 0 680 0 445 373
p 6 270 384 26 4143 1591
b 10 0 680 0 1134 437
p 6 470 210 0 5525 2218
b 10 0 680 0 1711 843
b 10 0 680 0 1548 482
p 6 427 253 0 6127 2164
b 10 0 680 0 2173 901
b 10 0 680 0 2238 596
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Old 23rd October 2004, 17:28   #19  |  Link
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Sagittaire: Thanks! Now I understand. It's a threshold for how 'easy' the encoder chooses B frames. I could expose such a parameter as well. Something to think about for the next update
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Old 25th October 2004, 07:16   #20  |  Link
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when using 2pass 2nd ,new ehq100 still takes 1.4~1.5 times longer than old one ....@@
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