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Old 7th December 2001, 09:53   #1  |  Link
ender
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using cce instead of reempeg -> OW no sync !


Hi !

at first: "YOU ARE MY ONLY GOD, DERROW"

:-)

No, seriously thank you for making this possible ...
But of course the whole method has 3 problems:

-1- It is complicated ( lots of steps )
-> this is already cared for by cupid2001, GOOD LUCK for the automation tool !!!

-2- Reempeg is very slow
-3- Reempeg has a BAD quality


BUT Problem number -2- and -3- could be solved by using cce !!!

So i tried, here are my steps, please correct me where/if i did wrong, because as you can see in the subject, i failed miserably ...


Steps:

(1) I ripped the whole DVD ( Fightclub, PAL, German ) to HD with DVDDecrypter

(2) i did some math:

-The whole DVD is 6.88 GBytes big.
-The main movie is 6.76 GBytes
-> So we have leftovers of 0.12 GBytes
-The main movie is 2:13:25 long, containing only 2 AC3 tracks
( i do not calculate the SBT and other tiny stuff, i stay on the safe side )
-So the Sound part is approx 8005 seconds * 384000 kbps * 2 / 8 / 1024^3 = 0.72 GBytes ( rounded up )

-This means: if i do not want to strip ANYTHING, only reduce the video Bitrate, i have a target size of 4.3 GByte, and i already need 0.12 GBytes ( menus & stuff, see leftovers ) + 0.72 GBytes ( Sound ).
-This means, for video i have left 4.3 - 0.12 - 0.72 = 3.46 GBytes !
-Okay, as my movie is 8005 seconds long, this means i have to encode at a Bitrate of: EndSize[GByte] * 1024^3 * 8 / Movielength [seconds] / 1000 = 3.46 * 1024^3 * 8 / 8005 / 1000 = 3712 kbps .

I used 3700 kbps to be on the save side ... ( i also used 4.3 GByte instead of 4.38 for the same reason, no one wants to work for hours to have a movie 10 bytes to long :-)

Sorry to paint this all out in so much detail, but maybe someone benefits from it, or you find mistakes ...

Soooo after that cce did a GREAT job on the video ( parameters: video settings: "Add sequence" ON, "Progreesive frames" ON, "DVD compliant" ON, "Luminance level" 0 to 255, "Intra DC precision" AUTO, "Aspect Ratio" DAR 16:9; GOP settings: all default; Quality settings: "Image Quality Priority" 25, "Anti noise Filter" OFF; CBR coding to 3700 kbps ( see above for maths ) Output of ES video only ).

-- of course the "progressive" and "aspect ratio" stuff depends on your specific movie !!! --


cce coded with close to 1:1 speed ( it had 23 fps on my Athlon 1.4 GHz ) and the Output Quality was AMAZING ( remember i did NOT rescale the movie and used about 60% of original Bitrate ).

Okay, now i got my new video stream, so i fired up ifoedit 0.6.

First i opened the MAIN .ifo to get rid of region coding.
Then i opened the .ifo of the main movie file, used "Vob Extras" ( i deselected "strip" because i wanted to keep EVERYTHING ) to select a destination and the encoded video file ( i had to rename the cce output from .mpv to .m2v ).

After a while of torturing my Harddisk ( first combining vob files, then correcting them it seems ) ifo edit was done, and i saved the new .ifo to the target directory.

Then i copied over all leftovers ( speak -> all unaffected DVD files ) to the new directory, and VOILA i had a new DVD with the size of 4.27 GBytes ( as close to 4.3 as i hoped it to be ).

BUT when playing single .vob files or the whole DVD, the sound & video is not in sync ( sound seems to be "faster" so more and more the picture seems to come before the sound comes ).



What did i do wrong, it would be sooo good to get it working, this would be fast & good and with a bit of automation we could get every dvd within 3 hours ...

Okay, please comment on this...


Ender


P.S. i got templates for cce & howtos ready if you need it ...

P.P.S. my suspicion is, that the movie is 24 fps in reality, and that dvd2avi -> vfapi produces 25 fps out of it, so cce encodes 1/25 th more movie than it should, and thus after everything the movie is 1/25th slower, or is this BS ??

Last edited by ender; 7th December 2001 at 09:59.
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Old 7th December 2001, 10:39   #2  |  Link
kdiddy
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Well not only is that your problem, but it was indeed discussed using TMPG in my legendary post a while back....but the key is while yes TMPG work and with great quality, there has not been a way to retain chapters points with reducing the bitrate with anything other than rempeg transcoding...wasnt sure if you were trying to maintain the chapter points or not...if not, there is a MUCH easier way to do this.
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Old 7th December 2001, 11:05   #3  |  Link
ender
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how ?

Hi !

So the easier method would be ?? ( maybe you got a link, so much threads going on about this ) ??

With that easier method i loose exact chapter points, but the rest is okay ???

Of course i could simply remaster the dvd, because dvd2avi could simply rip the .ac3 audio while analyzing the .vobs ...

but that would SUCK :-)

Thanks,

Ender

P.S. But shouldn't the recalculation of the capter point be ifoedit's job ?!?! or did i get something wron, sorry for my ignorance, but i just recently upgraded from producing svcds to dvds because of my pioneer dvr a03 :-)
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Old 7th December 2001, 19:09   #4  |  Link
kdiddy
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Yes, fixing the chapter points is ifoedits job..however when you encoded the movie using anything but transcode, you lose the cell ID flags that are embedded in the video stream..these flags are needed to tell the ifoedit which chapters are what for redirection....so now that they are gone, ifoedit can not do its job....The ideal situation would be to a a good encoder (IMO, TMPG) be able to reduce the bitrate &/or resolution inside oif a vob file without messing up all other information (I think I'll ask Santa Claus that for Xmas, LOL)..

Now IF you ont care about retaining chapter points, then it would be much easier to demux your audio & video tracks, re-encode video with CCE if you wish...then remux that with your audio using BBmpeg or Streamweaver into a vob files, make sure that you rename them to exact same as the original vobs, then run ifoedit...again you will lose chapter points and only have the ability to keep ONLY 2 audio tracks...but it works.
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Old 7th December 2001, 19:17   #5  |  Link
ender
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ahh !

Ahh thats is the problem, thx for pointing that out to me !!!

Aehm, currently i simply rip the ac3, reencode the vob and then reauthor it, how would i create vob files when muxing ??

Thx for the hint ...

Ender

P.S. those cell id flags ( that i am totally ignorant of ) ...
Are they stored in each frame or each gop, or totally independent ??
( I ask, because depending on the nature one could also copy the cell id's from old to new vob structure ?!?! )
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Old 7th December 2001, 22:22   #6  |  Link
Derrow
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Re: using cce instead of reempeg -> OW no sync !

Quote:
Originally posted by ender


at first: "YOU ARE MY ONLY GOD, DERROW" :-)
Thank you.
Like to hear that.

So I will keep on the good work.
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Old 7th December 2001, 22:40   #7  |  Link
kdiddy
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"P.S. those cell id flags ( that i am totally ignorant of ) ...
Are they stored in each frame or each gop, or totally independent ??
( I ask, because depending on the nature one could also copy the cell id's from old to new vob structure ?!?! )"

That would be a better question to ask Derrow, Im not too sure about that.

"how would i create vob files when muxing ??"

By using BBmpeg or Streamweaver, load up mpeg2 video & ac3 audio, mux, and chose save as vts_xx_x.vob.
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Old 7th December 2001, 22:59   #8  |  Link
Derrow
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Re:

Quote:
Originally posted by kdiddy
"
Are they stored in each frame or each gop, or totally independent ??
"
Cell-ID's are stored in each VOB-Unit. GOP's and frames are part of a VOB-Unit.
Just use VobEdit, then you can see it by your self.

I've planed to build a new function, in IfoEdit, to rebuild 'Chapters' in VOB-files, base on the IFO file, if you re-authored your VOB files with an authoring tool.

But I don't have a clue yet, when it will be finished.
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Old 8th December 2001, 02:00   #9  |  Link
ender
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ahh good :-)

That sounds good derrow, so there is still hope we can use cce at some point instead of rempeg.
It is so sad that rempeg is discontinued, because the approach is the only suitable one ...
I do not think that source code is available somewhere to work on it, is it ???
( does anyone know if the rempeg author simply quit, or if he was forced to quit ?? )

Meanwhile my crappy PC is doing nightshifts using reempeg instead of 2 hour turns using cce.
The part that really bites me is that cce is not only 4 times faster but also 2 times better, THAT HURTS ...


Okay, thx for explaining stuff to me, as i said, i am not a complete idiot, but i just upgraded from SVCD to DVD :-)

Greetings,

Ender
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Old 18th December 2001, 00:21   #10  |  Link
GlenC
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Hello Derrow,

Is there any news on recreating the chapters after cce has re-encoded the mpeg stream? Not pestering for it or anything...just wondering

Great program..keep up the good work!
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Old 18th December 2001, 00:44   #11  |  Link
Derrow
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Re:

Quote:
Originally posted by GlenC
Recreating chapters has nothing to do with cce.
Chapter will work fine, on re-muxing with ifo-edit, even with cce.
The re-creation of chapter's is just needed, if you use an authoring tool to create your VOB files for burning.
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Old 18th December 2001, 00:46   #12  |  Link
Derrow
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Re: ahh good :-)

Quote:
Originally posted by ender
That sounds good derrow, so there is still hope we can use cce at some point instead of rempeg.
I hope so. It should already work perfect.
But since I did not test it yet, I can't tell you, what's the problem.
The cce-stuff is not working with win2000. So I have to install win98 first to check it out.

Derrow
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Old 18th December 2001, 01:42   #13  |  Link
chilliman
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thx Derrow for get step by step guide and great program.

Anyone knows how its going for cupid2001 with his automation tool??
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Old 18th December 2001, 02:31   #14  |  Link
Derrow
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I had a preview on his automation tool, and it looks realy great, but nothing is working yet.
As I know, he's wether very busy, or on holiday's right now, so he doesn't have the time, to code further on his tool. (pitty)
But he will continue the work in about 2 weeks.
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Old 18th December 2001, 02:40   #15  |  Link
Derrow
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Re:

Quote:
Originally posted by chilliman
thx Derrow for get step by step guide and great program.
Great, that you like it.
Jesus, it's still so much left to write further doc's, which cost me expensive time, that I rather would invest into enhancing IfoEdit.
But I suppose a good How-To effort you more at the moment, as a new function, where nobody knows, how to use it.
So I'll keep writing doc's right now.

Anybody, how wants to submit something for the site, is welcome!
derrow@yahoo.com
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Old 18th December 2001, 17:02   #16  |  Link
merlin
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Hi
I have the same problem with IFOEdit and CCE.
Everything is working but when i open the new VOB files with WinDVD 3.1 the Video ist faster then the Audio.
Video and Audio starts on the same time. It looks like the Video is missing some frames.
I check the m2v File with WinDVD and there is everything ok.
I mux the m2v and the ac3 (extract with DVD2AVI) file with another tool. Open it with WinDVD and looks ok.
I import the m2v file again with IfoEdit with the same result.
Chapters ar working but the movie start on the wrong position.What is the problem?

merlin
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Old 18th December 2001, 17:06   #17  |  Link
ender
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wait and see ..

hi merlin !

i am glad to see that i am not the only one having this effect.

So it is not only because i am stupid :-)

But lets wait & see, now that derrow has all tools he needs, maybe he finds the time to play around with cce and see for himself.

The reencoding speed & quality is SO far beyond reempeg that everyone will switch to it as soon as it works with ifoedit ...

until then i burn simple movies without ifoedit by reauthoring the audio tracks & the reencoded m2v streams.


Ender
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Old 18th December 2001, 21:12   #18  |  Link
ender
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@derrow:

what do you mean, it is not working under w2k ??

it works perfect for many people under w2k.

Please mail detailed problems/question, maybe i can get it to work ...


Ender
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Old 18th December 2001, 21:20   #19  |  Link
merlin
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CCE 2.62 is running with w2k and xp and i have never a problem.

merlin
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Old 19th December 2001, 01:46   #20  |  Link
mpeg
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Re: using cce instead of reempeg -> OW no sync !

Quote:
Originally posted by ender


Soooo after that cce did a GREAT job on the video ( parameters: video settings: "Add sequence" ON, "Progreesive frames" ON, "DVD compliant" ON, "Luminance level" 0 to 255, "Intra DC precision" AUTO, "Aspect Ratio" DAR 16:9; GOP settings: all default; Quality settings: "Image Quality Priority" 25, "Anti noise Filter" OFF; CBR coding to 3700 kbps ( see above for maths ) Output of ES video only ).
@Ender,
please try turn on "close GOP" in GOP settings.
I try server disk and all ok.
How do you open mpeg2 in CCE. I use DVD2AVI.
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