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Old 20th May 2004, 03:18   #1  |  Link
Xuivo
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CCE Basic versus SP

Hi everyone.

I was just wandering what was the difference in term of quality between CCE SP and CCE Basic?

I've tried finding threads on this and from what i've seen, CCE basic seems to be the favorite here, even is it cost like 10 billions less CCE SP.

Anyone got a result on both?

Cheers!

b.t.w. Very good works Jdobbs!!! You're the best!
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Old 20th May 2004, 03:31   #2  |  Link
Fishman0919
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From what I understand, CCE Basic uses the same basic engine as CCE SP but CCE Basic only allows 2 passes for encoding where CCE SP allows up to 10 passes...CCE SP also has more filters and other tweaks and stuff.


edit: I have use both (well ...CCE SP 2.50, 2.66, 2.67 and CCE Basic 2.67)with DVD-RB and with all set to 2 passes they yield pretty much the same quality.

Last edited by Fishman0919; 20th May 2004 at 03:36.
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Old 21st May 2004, 02:24   #3  |  Link
jdobbs
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SP has a One Pass VBR (OPV) mode in which you can select a fixed quality rating for output. SP also supports forcing I-Frames at certain points and tools for reallocating bits across the source manually.
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Old 21st May 2004, 08:55   #4  |  Link
Sir Didymus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fishman0919
From what I understand, CCE Basic uses the same basic engine as CCE SP but CCE Basic only allows 2 passes for encoding where CCE SP allows up to 10 passes...
... skip ...
"Only 2 passes" ?
I am using almost every time 2 passes for encoding even in CCE SP...
Please consider that with 2 passes the quality you obtain is outstanding...

I have a personal opinion (but please do not unveil it, otherwise I will be immediately flamed...) that more than 3 passes is every time pretty ininfluent. Creating bitrate from nothing is simply impossible, and CCE is a superb encoder; in two passes it makes the job perfectly done...

Cheers,
SD

Last edited by Sir Didymus; 21st May 2004 at 09:43.
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Old 21st May 2004, 10:53   #5  |  Link
Fishman0919
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Sorry, don't get me wrong... CCE (any...well)is great with any number of passes. I've done 100's of test(maybe 20-30)with whole discs, just movies, removing extras....and viewed them on a Pioneer Elite 64 High Definition TV with a Pioneer Elite DV59-AVi DVD player and come to believe that anything done with CCE in any number of passes look outstanding....if I upset anyone I am very sorry.


P.S. and yes "creating bitrate from nothing" is simply impossible... it is math, two passes is enough after that its...well maybe just piece of mind.

Last edited by Fishman0919; 21st May 2004 at 11:07.
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Old 21st May 2004, 16:52   #6  |  Link
Xuivo
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When you're talking about 2 passes, do you include the .vaf creation or a "real 2 passes" (so that would make 3 in dvd-rb)?

I usually do 4 passes (so three real one + vaf creation), are you saying it's a waste of time?
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Old 21st May 2004, 18:16   #7  |  Link
Fishman0919
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Yes, when I said 2 passes I'am include the .vaf creation pass (1+1)in DVD-RB... the .vaf pass is the same as the other passes. I must have tons of snapshots from movies I have done with 2 passes, then 3, then 4...so on and so on...still scenes, move action, big movie and small and I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't make a diff. at all. CCE just encodes great no matter how many passes you do

Last edited by Fishman0919; 21st May 2004 at 18:31.
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Old 21st May 2004, 19:01   #8  |  Link
Sir Didymus
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@Xuivo.
I normally use 2 passes including the .vaf creation.

I realy do not want to give hints or suggestion of any type to people (like the ones browsing this forum) strongly concerned to the video quality.

It is just that the subject is very serious and it has been answered many, many times by people that are by sure much more skilled and expert than myself. It is just that sometimes I read about some one who does five, nine, twelve passes...

At the end I decided that 2 passes are enough for my eyes (and please consider that I am working with professional video equipments since... ok since when my pc was an apple II...).

But why to ask on a subject you can check by yourself ?
There is a little experiment I suggest you do, if you have a little time to spend on the matter: take the DVD you like more. You rebuild it 2 times. The first one with 2 passes. The second with 3 passes. Take one of the vob of the movie. Demux it with vobedit (by cell id, in order to work just with little streams), demux again one of the cells in order to obtain a m2v of reasonable size. Do the same to the second vob encoded with 3 passes. Try to play and to replay many times the two m2v one after the other (or even simultaneously, if you have a good video board in your pc it works sometimes I use DVD2AVI, that supports multiple instances of the program running at the same time). This way I can see very well the difference among streams encoded using different encoders (and this is the reason I want to use CCE) but I normally can not see the difference in encodes produced using 2 and 3 passes (TOTAL passes, including vaf creation...).

Ok I can believe that if you use paint shop pro for looking at the differences on specific single frames, you can see the difference. What I mean is that your eyes will not see any difference if you play the movie normally (that is the way I want to use for seeing the movies...).

You prefere 3 passes because you really want to get the best, and you are very concerned about quality ? Ok. Up to you...

But (imho, and it is really just an opinion) four passes or more are just a waste of electricity, disk and cpu time.

Cheers
SD
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Old 21st May 2004, 19:10   #9  |  Link
Xuivo
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all right, thanks SD, i'll try this. What about keeping only a small portion of a vts using something like DVDstripper or Dvdremake then process it directly with DVD-rb?
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Old 22nd May 2004, 01:22   #10  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Didymus
"Only 2 passes" ?
I am using almost every time 2 passes for encoding even in CCE SP...
Please consider that with 2 passes the quality you obtain is outstanding...

I have a personal opinion (but please do not unveil it, otherwise I will be immediately flamed...) that more than 3 passes is every time pretty ininfluent. Creating bitrate from nothing is simply impossible, and CCE is a superb encoder; in two passes it makes the job perfectly done...

Cheers,
SD
I am in complete agreement. After the first pass you know everything there is to know about the source. On the second pass you simply allocate bits. The rest is video masturbation -- it might feel good, but really doesn't accomplish much.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 22nd May 2004 at 01:25.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 02:36   #11  |  Link
Xuivo
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Just got to say i love your masturbation example! One time is enough!

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Old 22nd May 2004, 02:45   #12  |  Link
robw
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Quote:
One time is enough!
Then I've been wasting a lot of time for most of my life.

Anyway, keep up the good work
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