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Old 21st January 2003, 19:32   #1  |  Link
dodone
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Which filters for a bad quality anime dvd?

Hi everybody,
this is my first message, so i hope i'm not making any mistake
I'm trying to encode an anime movie:
16/9 non anamorphic, heavy compression (3,9 gigabytes on HD, with 2 ac3 streams), interlaced video, strange compression artifacts due to unusual ghost effects.
Here u can see this "jpeg like ghost effect":
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/frame2tuo.jpg

I also have a problem on the edges of the images moving on the backgrounds in the final avi, whatever is the filter used.
These are two consecutive frames of the final avi:
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/Anoscal.jpg
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/Bconscal.jpg

I've tried many filters combinations; best results with this one:
# DEINTERLACING (1)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false,chroma=true,blend=false)
SmoothDeinterlace(lacethresh=24,edgethresh=10,staticthresh=25,staticavg=90,tff=true,blend=false,showlace=false)
#
# CROPPING
crop(13,89,697,402)
#
# RESIZING
Lanczos3Resize(640,352)
#
STMedianFilter(10,50,8,10,10,50)
WarpSharp(depth=98, blur=3, bump=98, cubic=-0.6)

But using this combination edges are flickering even more.
Can anyone help me?

Last edited by dodone; 21st January 2003 at 19:37.
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Old 21st January 2003, 19:59   #2  |  Link
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1. Your image links aren't working.

2. You shouldn't deinterlace twice.
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Old 21st January 2003, 20:11   #3  |  Link
dodone
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Thanks for answering
1 - I know links dont work correctly, u should copy and paste them.
2 - I know i shouldnt deinterlace twice but smoothdeinterlacer is the only filter which can get a rid of a good number of those artifacts and if i use only smooth it produces a lot of ghost effects even if i set blend=false; if i use it after a field deinterlace, it doesnt found nothing more to deinterlace than those strange artifacts i'm talking about.
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Old 21st January 2003, 20:28   #4  |  Link
lark
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that ghost might be hard, if it's already in the source, which seems to be quite often the case with bad anime. perhaps you could try ghostbuster.

if you mean by the background objects moving that the whole picture shifts to the right, at least i don't a filter that would deal with this, unless the pattern is constant (e.g. every other frame to the left and every other to the right or something like this), in which case you might try to decimate first the whole stuff into 2 or more parts (streams) and then crom them according the shift and later interleave the streams again and process the interleaved stuff, but i'm pretty sure this works only in theory.

regards
t
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Old 21st January 2003, 20:57   #5  |  Link
dodone
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I had tried with ghostbuster but it doesnt work with that kind of ghosth. The only usefull filter for that is smoothdeinterlacer, i guess because of its edgethresh parameter. Is it possible to set this filter in order to get deinterlacing without blending?
The other problem occurs when an entire frame moves vertically or an object (like the bandages of the linked jpg) with black outlines moves over the background. There is no constant pattern: if a frame is still and the following is exactly the same the problem doesn't exist.
I'm sorry for my poor english
also i'm a newbie in avisynth encoding.
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Old 21st January 2003, 22:40   #6  |  Link
Dreassica
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Is iot a PAL DVD, cuz then it might be the dreaded blended fields problem that pester these dvd's n anime. If thats so u wont be able to fix it. U will only be able to smooth the picture to reduce it as good as possible. Telecide(blend=false) is your best bet then too.
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Old 21st January 2003, 22:54   #7  |  Link
dodone
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Yes, it's a PAL DVD and it's old (2000)
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Old 22nd January 2003, 10:37   #8  |  Link
Wilbert
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STMedianFilter contains a bug, it adds a purple hue to your clip. Try convolution3d instead.
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Old 22nd January 2003, 11:45   #9  |  Link
Infophreak
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Well, Castle of Cagliostro was created in 1979, and it hasn't been taken real good care off, so there are some serious issues with the video quality on that movie (at least that's the case with my R4 PAL DVD). Lots of dust on the print and the occasional "black hole" could make it a pain to encode I think.
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Old 22nd January 2003, 14:55   #10  |  Link
dodone
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@wilbert
i didnt noticed this purple hue, probably it occurs if parameters are setted to high. Stmediam seems to work better than 3dconvolution in my case.
@infophreak
i think the problem is not the age of the movie (or of the film) but the way they processed the japanese master and the compression they used; it's true that sometimes you can see black holes and the frames shake but i think the problem is this european pal dvd, infact i bought it for half of its price.

Anyway i cant understand why if i watch the dvd there isnt any aliased image, and in the avi black outlines are so irregular sometimes.

Last edited by dodone; 22nd January 2003 at 15:04.
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Old 22nd January 2003, 15:06   #11  |  Link
Wilbert
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Well, I used the settings:
STMedianFilter(10, 50, 8, 10, 10, 50)

See http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ --> comparison pictures.
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Old 22nd January 2003, 15:37   #12  |  Link
dodone
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Yes, u're righ. Maybe i hadnt noticed it cause i'm encoding an anime
Thanks for your samples anyway, they are really usefull.
I will try 2dcleaner cause it seems to give good results on your pictures. 3dconv in my case it's useless, only if i set it to BQ it works but it causes a loss of colours and details and removes that kind of imperfections less than other tools.
May u give me some advices on how to use it in my case?
A script sample would be great
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Old 22nd January 2003, 16:31   #13  |  Link
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I hadn't even noticed the STMedianFilter change in hue until Wilbert pointed it out previously.

But I'm going to be making a YV12 version soon (maybe today) anyway and there are a couple obvious things I can try as I do that purple problem.

First, I think I should just leave the chroma alone, no filtering.

Second, IIRC STMedianFilter also does a small amount of averaging, not just clipping. This could cause rounding errors, so I'll get rid of that too.

Hopefully an update soon.

- Tom
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Old 23rd January 2003, 10:15   #14  |  Link
Wilbert
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Quote:
3dconv in my case it's useless, only if i set it to BQ it works but it causes a loss of colours and details and removes that kind of imperfections less than other tools. May u give me some advices on how to use it in my case?
Sorry can't help you with that. I've never done anime.
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Old 23rd January 2003, 15:12   #15  |  Link
dodone
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Never mind.
I'm encoding with these settings:
# IVTC
Telecide(post=true, blend=false).Decimate(mode=1)
#
# DEINTERLACING
SmoothDeinterlace(lacethresh=20,edgethresh=15,staticthresh=15,staticavg=85,tff=true,blend=false,showlace=false)
#
# CROPPING
crop(13,89,697,402)
#
# SMOOTHING
_2DCleanYUY2(interlaced=1,thresholdY=4,radiusX=2,radiusY=3,dmode=3,thresholdU=128,thresholdV=128)
#
# RESIZE
Lanczos3Resize(640,352)
#
# SHARPENING
WarpSharp(depth=80, blur=2, bump=68, cubic=-0.6)

Probably not the best way, but the best i found. Thank u for your help.
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Old 23rd January 2003, 15:21   #16  |  Link
dadawi
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Why not have a look at msharpen or ashap, instead of Warpsharp..sometimes helps to achieve great quality.

By the way, try to put a sharpener BEFORE a smoother, you probably get rid of aliasing problem which may result of a sharpen.
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Old 23rd January 2003, 15:58   #17  |  Link
dodone
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Thanks, i will try.
Anyway i cant understand why i should use a sharpening tool before a smoothing: i'm sharping to compensate the blur of a smoothing process.
Unfortunately the aliasing effect is not due to the sharpening process but i noticed that the cause is the same of the other problem:
ghost effect on outlines for little movements of them or the entire film.
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Old 24th January 2003, 06:14   #18  |  Link
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its good to apply sharpener before 2d cleaner so the video will be sharpened but not too sharp (rough) ... but for sharpener like Warpsharp .. i like to apply it after the spatial cleaner .
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Old 24th January 2003, 15:28   #19  |  Link
dodone
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I think there is no way to encode this movie in a decent way.
I have been trying greedy, and i found out that one of its parameter (verticalfilter) gets rid of some of aliasing effects, but not every ghost effect. Depending on the setting of the "topfirst" parameter, which decide how to combine the two field of each frame: i should encode with "topfirst on" half of the scenes, and with "topfirst off" the other half.
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Old 25th January 2003, 15:34   #20  |  Link
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I think convolution3d will work better than 2d cleaner. 2d cleaner is just a spacial cleaner, and even though it has a higher spacial maxtrix than c3d (2d = 5x5, c3d = 3x3), c3d imo still gives better results.
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