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Old 11th January 2003, 15:49   #1  |  Link
athos
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ffvfw

well i think it's time to start a new thread about this. iδm not sure it belongs in the xvid forum, but the ffdshow discussion has always been here so i'll post this here too. I made a new build of ffvfw today, download from http://athos.web1000.com/ffvfw.html
From the changelog it seems 2-pass has been fixed.

For those who dont know, this is milans vfw implementation of the encoding part of libavcodec/ffmpeg. The decoding part is ffdshow. These two can work more or less together.

Update: I did a small test with 2-pass qpel and it worked alright. B-frames in 2-pass does not seem to work yet though.

Last edited by athos; 11th January 2003 at 16:15.
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Old 11th January 2003, 16:57   #2  |  Link
-h
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I have been testing recent builds of ffmpeg, and am quite eager to try porting libavcodec's fDCT over to XviD - it appears to be less accurate (a full 1 dB lower PSNR than XviD when quantizer is fixed), but bitrate savings are quite significant and it's an effective pre-filter.

Trellis quantization also gives significant quality improvements at a given bitrate - around 0.3 dB in my tests, very useful for the 2nd pass.

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Old 11th January 2003, 17:20   #3  |  Link
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Cheers athos.

I have been testing (your previous build) recently as well, and am very very impressed by it, particularly its qpel - although I suspect 90% of libav mpeg4 is cut-and-paste XviD code.

Were there problems with the 2-pass qpel? I just did Arlington Rd. with Qpel and I though it did a very fine job. B-frames just crash for me, or just plain look bad.

-h, could you explain trellis quants to me? I have yet to find a good explanation on the net. Also, how are they meant to be used. I tried on a 1pass-quality encoding, and it seemed to reduce the quality slightly after reducing the quality setting to match the filesizes.
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Old 11th January 2003, 17:27   #4  |  Link
NiTroGen
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For anyone having problems with downloading from http://athos.web1000.com/ffvfw.html, you can also get all builds of ffvfw since April 2002 from this unofficial site of ffvfw that I've created.
Thanks Athos for the new build. I'm looking forward to finishing my XviD encoding of "MIB2" and testing ffvfw.
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Last edited by NiTroGen; 11th January 2003 at 18:27.
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Old 11th January 2003, 17:28   #5  |  Link
athos
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Quote:
Originally posted by sam_b
Were there problems with the 2-pass qpel? I just did Arlington Rd. with Qpel and I though it did a very fine job.
I did not try 2-pass for the previous build, but the changelog mentions 2-pass so i assume something has been done in this area.
Quote:
B-frames just crash for me, or just plain look bad.
Crashes for me too
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Old 11th January 2003, 17:47   #6  |  Link
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I cannot reach ffvfw from virtualdub. It does not appear in the codec list for me. Reinstalling the previous version makes it appear again. If I copy the dll from the new ffvfw, install the old one, and then copy back the new dll into the system32 dir it still doesn't appear in vdub(mod). I have tried uninstalling before reinstalling. Any ideas?
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Old 11th January 2003, 18:27   #7  |  Link
Suikun
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Quote:
Originally posted by sam_b
Cheers athos.

I have been testing (your previous build) recently as well, and am very very impressed by it, particularly its qpel - although I suspect 90% of libav mpeg4 is cut-and-paste XviD code.

[...]
libavcodec is a part of ffmpeg, which is yet another MPEG-4 implementation (see ffmpeg.sourceforge.net). It was developed before XviD :)
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Old 11th January 2003, 18:33   #8  |  Link
Suikun
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On another note, this version of ffvfw can cause macroblocks to become pink over time when not using the original MPEG-4 encoder (like MP42 and so on).
On pans macroblocks slowly get pink...looks like a DCT error accumulating over time...
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Old 11th January 2003, 18:58   #9  |  Link
-h
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This version of ffvfw has a QPel bug which performs HV interpolation incorrectly. It has since been fixed in ffmpeg's CVS.

Most of the code people here use (MPEG-4 specific) was written by Michael of the ffmpeg team - none of it is from XviD, and most of the structure is radically different too.

Perhaps try this paper for a description of trellis quantization. I tested by performing a 1st pass without trellis, and performing two second passes - one without trellis, one with, and comparing PSNR of the identically-sized output files.

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Old 11th January 2003, 19:01   #10  |  Link
easyfab
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Whao!
I 've D/L the new version and made little tests.
(Xvid has a lot of parameters to play with but ffvfw has much more but i don't know the most of them (X1 ? diamonds 2 or 6 ? ...). i think i must go to the ffmpeg faq's for have the answers.)

The tests:
xvid,divx,ffvfw codecs
1)
all codecs with basic parameters (no b-frames, q-pel ...)and 2 pass encode
10 sec action and 20 sec normal scene
bitrate ~250kbs and ~750kbs.
Decoder ffdshow without PP
Results FOR ME 1)ffvfw 2)XVID 3)Divx in 250kbs
Results FOR ME 1)XVID 2)ffvfw 3)Divx in 750kbs
2)
Same but with b-frames enable @ ~750kbs
Results 1)xvid 2)divx 3)ffvfw
I think the b-frames code in ffvfw in not completly implemented

Conclusion : The ffvfw codec is and could be an alternative to Xvid and other mpeg4 codecs in few times if it progress at this rythm.
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Old 11th January 2003, 19:50   #11  |  Link
sam_b
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@Suikun
I am aware of what libavcodec and ffmpeg are and I know they are quite old. It's just I didn't think that MPEG4 was a significant part of it, and I though it was a (relatively) recent addition. libavcodec's capabilities amaze me, it really can seem do pretty much anything. mplayer too. Didn't mean to offend anyone.

It it's MPEG-4 code really not based on even OpenDivX (which is pretty old)?

@-h

cheers for the link, but I get a 404 Not Found from it.
I'll give trellis a second go. When I figure out how to install it....
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Old 11th January 2003, 19:52   #12  |  Link
athos
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sam_b> did you put msvcr70.dll in Windows/system(32)?
http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dl....shtml?msvcr70
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Old 11th January 2003, 20:53   #13  |  Link
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Still no go I'm afraid. Can install 0401 and it works fine. 1104 just makes the codec disappear from the list after restarting vdubmod. My win2k SP2 is only 1 day old! Why must it taunt me so!
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Old 11th January 2003, 22:01   #14  |  Link
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@sam_b

I had the same pb in capture mode.
For me, i just unselected "unable image processing" and it works again
(colorspace pbs perhaps?)
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Old 11th January 2003, 22:06   #15  |  Link
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cheers for the link, but I get a 404 Not Found from it.

Goodness look at that. You can still access the google cache if you search for "trellis quantization dct", it's the top match.

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Old 12th January 2003, 16:52   #16  |  Link
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WOW!
I am really impressed! I have been trying all the builds of divx and other codecs one by one and I didn't know about ffvfw!

What is this damn Libavcodec???
The quality of what I captured with it is amazing!!!
Please guys, point me to a guide (how to, options explained etc) for this and help me figure it out.

Also I don't know if its me having problems or a bug but in iuvcr I get load of access vialation errors when setting the codec!~
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Old 12th January 2003, 16:57   #17  |  Link
athos
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Quote:
Originally posted by birdy
What is this damn Libavcodec???
The quality of what I captured with it is amazing!!!
Please guys, point me to a guide (how to, options explained etc) for this and help me figure it out.
libavcodec is part of ffmpeg, http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/
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Old 12th January 2003, 20:09   #18  |  Link
birdy
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Quote:
Originally posted by athos
sam_b> did you put msvcr70.dll in Windows/system(32)?
http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dl....shtml?msvcr70

it's looking for msvcp70.dll too! and here is the link:
http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dl....shtml?msvcp70

After adding both dll's it worked for me and what a surprise!
Between the build from 2003 01 04 and the 2003 01 11 there is so much change and improvment!!!

If the guy or guys involved in this project continue the job at this speed I guess there is a damn promissing futur for ffvfw.

hehe I am so exited about this that I want to talk about it! But there are so many options with it that I have to test that I better keep the talking for later with a little more experience and avoid saying some stupid things

Only thing I can say for now is that it's really worth that all of you give it a try and you will be surprised!

Last edited by birdy; 12th January 2003 at 21:48.
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Old 12th January 2003, 22:49   #19  |  Link
NeVeRLiFt
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I know your testing it with captures Birdy using the Cyberlink filter And I know how nice your captures look. But how much smaller or better does it get than using XviD??? I use XviD and the Cyberlink filter and have files that are just over 2mb for 1min sample using a 512x384 res and that quality is as good as a SVCD capture? Are you getting 1mb for 1min with this?

Whats the avg for the size of a 5min capture?

(and I know the size depends on whats happening in the scenes but I usually avg 3-8mb most times, with you PAL based satellite using S-video you must be having a better time of it than me)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42088

posted here about the way we capture using XviD and people liked it
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Old 13th January 2003, 03:47   #20  |  Link
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Thankyou Birdy!!
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