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Old 15th December 2002, 20:32   #1  |  Link
rocker60
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Getting Rid of a TV station logo with AViSYNTH?

Hi
This is my first post in this forum crying for some help, so i hope
that some of you more experienced with Avisynth commands can help me
on this.
What i need is to get rid of a TV station logo and for this job i really
like to work only in YUY2 color space, i know how to do it with VirtualDub
but that way the video is convert to RGb, so all the power of Avisynth and
is great plugins goes down the drain. If there is a filter for Avisynth to do this,
it's really great, but since there is any, i really apreciate any help you can
give me.
Thanks a lot.
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Old 16th December 2002, 08:21   #2  |  Link
Si
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So you not related to the rocker60 that told Emale his filter was "weak" and then didn't furnish any details when asked for?

What a co-incidence

Simon
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Old 16th December 2002, 22:21   #3  |  Link
rocker60
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@siwalters

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by siwalters

So you not related to the rocker60 that told Emale his filter was "weak" and then
didn't furnish any details when asked for?

What a co-incidence

Simon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, i'm the one! But, i don't told Emale his filter was "weak" i told that his filter
is a "little bit weak". And he reply: as soon as i got time, which won´t be much til february.

Note: Til FEBRUARY!... So i have lots of time to furnish him, any and all details
i think of importance to improve is filter. If you read is reply, i don't think he
feels ofended because i said is filter is a "little bit weak".
Cheers.
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Old 17th December 2002, 18:00   #4  |  Link
lamer_de
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Use the import.avs to import the vdub filter. then use

converttorgb.yourfilterhere.converttoyuy2

Now you can still use fast recompress when you're encoding...

Nonetheless, i haven't found a filter yet which works so well that you can't spot removing artifacts. Removing opaque logos would be enough for me. I tried logoaway, delogo and xlogo, finding xlogo producing the best results, but still not perfect.

CU,
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Old 18th December 2002, 00:32   #5  |  Link
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to end the offtopic discussion:
i was not offended, but something like "ok, i´ll reply later with details" would have been nice

btw, I hope I´ll be able to make (new) test versions of my filters soon, but feb seems most realistic, as i´ll get some free time then

enough off-topic *G*
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Old 19th December 2002, 01:27   #6  |  Link
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lamer_de


where can i find xlogo? i cant seem to find irt


thanks
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Old 19th December 2002, 01:45   #7  |  Link
onesoul
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@lamer_de

Maybe ConvertBackToYUY2() can be a better option.

Quote:
Conversion back and forth is not lossless, so use as few conversions as possible. If multiple conversions are necessary, use ConvertBackToYUY2() to convert to YUY2, if your source already has already once been YUY2. This will reduce colorblurring, but there are still some precision lost.
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Old 19th December 2002, 01:45   #8  |  Link
Richard Berg
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I'd attack it with an image-source plugin and Layer(), but I'm not familiar with the VDub plugins mentions so that's probably why.
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Old 19th December 2002, 02:28   #9  |  Link
kayman
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i cant get filter to work every time i go to preview to place the black image logo over teh logo in the frames i get cant utilize filter chain error

im processing a huffyuv avi

thanks

kayman
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Old 19th December 2002, 16:23   #10  |  Link
dphirschler
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download x-logo filter here

Somebody above asked where to find the x-logo filter. I found it at the following url:

http://members.verizon.net/~vze3kkvm/filters.html


Darryl
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Old 21st December 2002, 21:59   #11  |  Link
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>Use the import.avs to import the vdub filter. then use
converttorgb.yourfilterhere.converttoyuy2
Now you can still use fast recompress when you're encoding...

yes,you can use fast recompress,but no speed gain there,as
VD too converts colorspaces and therefore looses speed
over avs.......
(so if you convert color spaces with avs you loose speed too!)
this stuff is one of the reasons that i still use VD+it's filtering (i use logoaway)

so obviously good avs delogo is needed,why it wasn't made?
there are some problems with incorporating that into YUY2
color space and RGB is easier for that purpose

avs:yuy2(source)->rgb(VD import filter)->yuy2->YV12(final mpeg4 codec /or mpeg1/2)

VD:yuy2(surce)->rgb(VD filter)->YV12(final mpeg4 codec /or mpeg1/2)

obvioulsy VD has less color conversions so it'll look better....
perhaps even faster (i don't know what color conversion engine is faster,VD's or avs...)

solution with Layer() is not elegant at all,and also
real time preview on placing the blur box over logo is needed
too ( like in logoaway..btw. new version doesn't crash on preview,so it's good ) so it's pain in the butt with avs.....
but if you must use avs,go ahead....

completely removing the logo?
i think that wil not be achieved.....
even if you do "masking" with custom produced bmp's (other is needed for every station) result is not that good....
dark areas are quite ok,but others are not really and will perhaps
more degrade image (it doesn't look nice at all) and not help

i use it when i need every bit possible for image itself and not for
logo.......(shorter erotic clips etc.)
i think for a movie that delogo shit will only distract your attention...
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Old 22nd December 2002, 15:45   #12  |  Link
Didée
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Quote:
so obviously good avs delogo is needed,why it wasn't made?
there are some problems with incorporating that into YUY2
color space and RGB is easier for that purpose
You got the very exact points there!
Quote:
this stuff is one of the reasons that i still use VD+it's filtering (i use logoaway)
I use delogo, and inside of AVS *exclusively* (except for the setting-up, of course):

1.) logoaway isn't bad ... but gave me greatest headaches and BIG loss of of time due to serious memory leaks (512MB RAM + 2GB swapfile got eaten up during 2hours-movie)

2.) When de-logo'ing in Vdub, this is (obviously) the last step in your filter chain. To achieve good results in logo removal, you must do that very early in the chain! Each and every filter will damage, or at least alter, the little information of underlying content in the logo, that you would need to reconstruct the image.

3.) refers to this:
Quote:
completely removing the logo?
i think that wil not be achieved.....
[...]
i think for a movie that delogo shit will only distract your attention...
When using delogo correctly, you'll get very good results. In most cases of transparent logos, it is possible to let the logo *vanish*. In many(!) of my capped movies, my friends did not notice the logo, until I pointed it out to them

Of course, this depends on many things:

- with opaque logos, milage is very limited by principle
- Capping with huffyuv is most preferable - using MJPEG with a quality < 19 renders the effort useless from start
- "stability" of the logo, especially with colored ones.
- general quality of your capture HW

An example to think of:
In some really hard cases, I often perform this:
- De-logo the transparent logo
- De-logo as if the logo would be opaque (kind of averaging)
- put the second one into the luma of the first by ~20%, and into the chroma by ~60% (exact values by try-and-error)

How'd you do that inside of Vdub?


Regards

Didée
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Old 23rd December 2002, 20:57   #13  |  Link
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>When using delogo correctly, you'll get very good results. In most cases of transparent logos, it is possible to let the logo *vanish*. In many(!) of my capped movies, my friends did not notice the logo, until I pointed it out to them

what would you reckon,would i see it afterwards?
(hehe)
also this depends to great extend of the size
and structure of logo:bigger the logo harder you'll
get rid of it....
(i see some logo's that are practically impossible
to remove: big and carry some animations inside them.... so no masking is possible,etc. )
transparent logo's are easier to get rid of,sure.....


>1.) logoaway isn't bad ... but gave me greatest headaches and BIG loss of of time due to serious memory leaks (512MB RAM + 2GB swapfile got eaten up during 2hours-movie)

as i said..version prior to 1.4 were crashing
on preview,and that says enough i think.......
(also:i ain't doing no mask for every channel i have,and huff is a bit too hungry for me....)
i think that delogo-ing is an operation that needs real-time preview
and a nice gui.....(isn't this the usual argument for VD users over asynth......hehe...but avs has other strenghts...speed for example...and also some neat filters have been written for avs only etc.)

>An example to think of:
In some really hard cases, I often perform this:
- De-logo the transparent logo
- De-logo as if the logo would be opaque (kind of averaging)
- put the second one into the luma of the first by ~20%, and into the chroma by ~60% (exact values by try-and-error)

How'd you do that inside of Vdub?


poptones got his initial idea for averaging methods while reading about VD's
"logo" filter,so he (later) concieved and developed avs version with
merging support (that version internally converts to rgb..) etc. (as far as i know...)
and before that he was "adding noise"(ie. averaging the video and the noise )
with VD logo filter.....
i think that filter could be used here too (to merge 2 videos ,one with
different removal of logo than the other,if i understood you correctly) as logo has transparency options etc.
(i might be wrong as i had glass of vine few minute ago...heh)

but sure it might be the case that your way is easier one,as the man
made this whole concept to improve on that VD quazi merging,and then again that shows to prove that such filter is a possibility for VD too...(?)

i myself am not willing to go to that extent for logo removal.....
if you are and you get decent results ,then lucky you,although i would like to see results from it on some REAL TUFF LOGO's....
(as NOTHING can recover you image if image is no longer there:as in opaque logo's)

(and also good deal of my stuff has opaque ones...so as i said for shorter "dirty" clips i remove it (just block of blurred stuff over logo),and for normal stuff i leave it as i know i would do more harm than benefit.......i think you remark on opaque logo's fits there........)

cheers

Ivo
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Old 24th December 2002, 06:47   #14  |  Link
Leuf
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Quote:
Originally posted by Didée

An example to think of:
In some really hard cases, I often perform this:
- De-logo the transparent logo
- De-logo as if the logo would be opaque (kind of averaging)
- put the second one into the luma of the first by ~20%, and into the chroma by ~60% (exact values by try-and-error)

How'd you do that inside of Vdub?
Well, xlogo does something like that internally. You can blend the transparent and opague processes together, or the opague and source together - but not all three (not that there's anything preventing that, I just don't see the point) and obviously it's done in rgb not luma/chroma.

How well you can remove a transparent logo just depends on how transparent it is. No matter what there is going to be some clipping, but if it was very transparent then any error is only going to be small. The more opague it is, the more clipping and thus the more error trying to remove it.

Incidentally, it would be very difficult to import xlogo to avisynth as is, because it has more parameters than vdub's scripting allows, so multiple parameters are << into 1 which would make it hard to write a command line for. I don't know if avisynth has the the same limitation.

When I get the time I plan on doing more work on the opague processing, as is the results are only watchable on special cases, though it does a decent enough job if the logo is small enough. It's those huge ads all the stations throw up now to say what's on and what's on next I really want to deal with now though. It certainly seems to be the trend for them to put more and more crap on the screen, so these types of filters are more and more needed.


-Leuf
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Old 29th January 2003, 10:40   #15  |  Link
damjang
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So, is it possible to use x-logo in an avs script (maybe with the help of xlogo.ini file)? If is it possible can someone post a sample script?

Thanks
damjang
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Old 2nd May 2003, 16:40   #16  |  Link
alky
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it sure is:

eg:

ConverttoRGB32()
#Xlogo(Clip, filename, X, Y, ALPHA, T1, T2, T3, B1, B2, B3, WHITE, SIDE, SCENE, FEATHER, NOISE)
Xlogo("D:\Eigene Dateien\My Videos\orf_x_550_y_11_2.bmp",550,11, 0, 30,30,10, 10,10,10, 230,0,0,10,5)
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Old 5th May 2003, 15:56   #17  |  Link
Sigma9
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Just wanted to confirm the experiences of other folks using DeLogo:

0. I set it up using VDub, then use in in AVS via Import. No hassle.
1. For me it does the job (removing semi-transparent logos) very well. You can hardly pinpoint the ex-logo after processing.
2. You can achieve reasonably good results (say, 80% of best) using the default settings of the filters. The rest is done by fiddling around with the the params - time consuming.
3. Good definition of the logo-to-remove is crucial. I always use "check ALL frames" - takes a lot of time, but pays off.
4. DeLogo MUST be the first thing to do (well, except for loading the source ;=) ). Any manipulation of the source degrades the definition of the logo and thus the result.

5. Didnt know Xlogo so far, will give it a shot (is it faster..?)

/Sigma9
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Old 5th May 2003, 16:56   #18  |  Link
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imo not as fast... but interpolates much nicer when removing opaque logos...

Last edited by alky; 7th May 2003 at 17:37.
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Old 7th May 2003, 15:56   #19  |  Link
damjang
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Quote:
Originally posted by alky
it sure is:

eg:

ConverttoRGB32()
#Xlogo(Clip, filename, X, Y, ALPHA, T1, T2, T3, B1, B2, B3, WHITE, SIDE, SCENE, FEATHER, NOISE)
Xlogo("D:\Eigene Dateien\My Videos\orf_x_550_y_11_2.bmp",550,11, 0, 30,30,10, 10,10,10, 230,0,0,10,5)
Oh... I must try this new xlogo avisynth version...

damjang
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