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Old 9th December 2002, 15:28   #1  |  Link
Marc FD
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tiya3dd

i packed beta one.
i rewrote ugly code and added a emms at the end ^^

i'd like to hear your impressions.

and of course, enjoy.

(attached "tiya3dd beta 1.zip")
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Old 9th December 2002, 17:12   #2  |  Link
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It's for YU12, right ?
I'll try this as soon the attachment will be ok.
Thx for the good work .
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Old 10th December 2002, 04:22   #3  |  Link
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Great looks like its faster and compresses even more then c3d i compresed an 48 MB VOB 6.5 Mbits with tiya3dd and cpu 6 down to 12 MB with XviD H263 Quantizer 2 and it looks great
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Old 10th December 2002, 08:43   #4  |  Link
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> looks like its faster

LOL. really, test it seriously ^^.

just a question, do you think VDub's 2Dcleaner is a fast filter ??
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Old 10th December 2002, 11:33   #5  |  Link
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i'd rate as relatively fast for a vdub spatial filter, but to be an effective denoiser, it tends to be too brutal in its blurring

two questions, marc fd, are you going to develop s3dc anymore? and, will there be a yuy2 version of tiya3d? ^__^
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Old 10th December 2002, 20:33   #6  |  Link
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>i'd rate as relatively fast for a vdub spatial filter,

do you think it's faster than a (any) 3d convolution ? (with the minimal radius : 3x3)

i dunno why, for me tiya3dd is as fast as VDub's 2dcleaner (K7 opt. radius 1 -> 3x3).

>and, will there be a yuy2 version of tiya3d? ^__^

i don't think. ConvertToYV12().tiya3d().ConvertToYUY2() will be faster, because it's exactly what i would do internally if i implement YUY2 in this filter. that's why yuy2 will never be implemented. (BTW, when you do filtering, what's bad to switch to YV12 ? it'll make encoding/playback faster anyway)

>are you going to develop s3dc anymore?

i dunno at all.

in a hand, i like the s3dc concept, because it's much more aggressive, (so better for anime) and i could make it hell fast. (i didn't tried, but that should be something... fast enough to make direct filtering faster)

on the other hand, it seems nobody will use it.

when i saw i could make a full 3d convolution 4x faster than the existing filter (i mean, tiya3dd().tiya3dd().tiya3dd().tiya3dd() is as fast as a single c3d call on my computer) i thought it may be interressing.

but it seems my computer is strange, or the concolution3d i downloaded is much slower than all others. i dunno at all.

when i think of it, i had a fun idea, i'm almost sure i could do 125-point (5x5x5) 3d convolution with a ridiculous speed penalty.
no.... more funny : maybe even faster than tiya3dd, depending on cpu/ram balance. .
and when i say ridiculous speed penality, i mean that with this indirect approach, it _may_ (it's just possible) achieve, in streaming, a 729 point (9x9x9) 3d convolution with the same kind of speed than c3d. (it's 27x more checkpoints, but who cares...)

but that's only quick estimates, and since nobody seems to like speed... even when quality is the same...

i sometimes wonder why i try to code fast stuff.....
it was fun anyway.

slowly,
MarcFD

Last edited by Marc FD; 10th December 2002 at 20:39.
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:01   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc FD
ConvertToYV12().tiya3d().ConvertToYUY2() will be faster, because it's exactly what i would do internally if i implement YUY2 in this filter. that's why yuy2 will never be implemented. (BTW, when you do filtering, what's bad to switch to YV12
ConvertToYV12() currently assumes progressive pictures. If you convert a combed picture, chroma will bleed between fields. That is BAD.
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:07   #8  |  Link
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Marc,

don't despair I'm we all want to see new fast and good filters. I know I certainly do!

Personally I thought 'sc3d' showed real promise. I'm afraid I can't really test YV12 filters myself yet because I'm not ready to switch to 2.5. Still too many issues, especially for me doing DV to mpeg2 conversions. Unfortunately all new filters seem to be YV12...

Keep up the good work,

@jp

Last edited by ajp; 10th December 2002 at 21:11.
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:17   #9  |  Link
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>ConvertToYV12() currently assumes progressive pictures. If you convert a
>combed picture, chroma will bleed between fields. That is BAD.

try YV12toYUY2(interlaced=true). it's in MPEG2Dec3 filter pack.

>Personally I thought 'sc3d' showed real promise...

speedwise ? maybe. s3dc was about as fast as c3d in C.

with low-lvl opt., tiya3dd is even faster, but not "simple", because it does the full work directly.

Last edited by Marc FD; 10th December 2002 at 21:19.
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:25   #10  |  Link
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Marc,

I meant the sc3d results showed promise. Pretty good at denoising. I didn't pay much attention to speed when testing it since it was an early release...

Oddly enough tiya3d didn't denoise very well at all for me, didn't even remove all the flickering etc. Maybe I did something wrong? C3D has much more effect...?
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:34   #11  |  Link
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>Oddly enough tiya3d didn't denoise very well at all for me, didn't even
>remove all the flickering etc. Maybe I did something wrong? C3D has much
> more effect...?

i'll look at it.
i'm sure of one thing : tiya3dd(1,30,30,30) is doing denoising. i dunno if it's as much as c3d does. i don't see how they could be different.

PS : are you sure you didn't used 3 as temporal influence ? it's about 10x bigger than c3d one, so recheck it, because you may end with simple 2d convolution all the time. (not noticably faster, and far less effective)

Last edited by Marc FD; 10th December 2002 at 21:37.
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:42   #12  |  Link
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Marc,

I will try it with those parameters and see if it's any better. If I want to move to 2.5/YV12 I will have to have a denoiser as good as Peachsmoother to convince me...

I used the standard (0,10,10,30) parameters but the source was pretty noisy, analogue tv cap...

I only wish I had the time and knowledge to make filters myself, sounds kind of fun....
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Old 10th December 2002, 21:58   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc FD
>ConvertToYV12() currently assumes progressive pictures. If you convert a
>combed picture, chroma will bleed between fields. That is BAD.

try YV12toYUY2(interlaced=true). it's in MPEG2Dec3 filter pack.
Umm, you are saying YV12toYUY2() is an equivalent of ConvertToYV12()? One makes YUY2 and one makes YV12. Hello?

Chroma downsampling is the problem I am referring to.

Last edited by Guest; 10th December 2002 at 22:01.
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Old 10th December 2002, 22:03   #14  |  Link
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Nope...(1,30,30,30) didn't denoise very well either on a noisy tv cap... Don't know what I'm doing wrong...?
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Old 10th December 2002, 22:12   #15  |  Link
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>Umm, you are saying YV12toYUY2() is an equivalent of ConvertToYV12()?
>One makes YUY2 and one makes YV12. Hello?
>Chroma downsampling is the problem I am referring to.

oups i totally missed that.
i thought Sh0dan already implemented it....
but i just checked and he missed it.

i'll add that tomorow afternoon.

@Sh0dan :
it's the interlaced YV12->YUY2 and YUY2->YV12 functions in XviD colorspaces convertions. they finish with _i_<cpu> or something like that.
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Old 10th December 2002, 22:16   #16  |  Link
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>Nope...(1,30,30,30) didn't denoise very well either on a noisy tv cap... >Don't know what I'm doing wrong...?

you tested c3d too ? because they are like twins when i test. tweak a bit and you can achieve the same effect.

try tiya3dd(1,250,250,8000) too. you'll see the max denoising possible. it wouldn't denoise more than that (spatially).

PS: BTW, i may create my little monster tomorow afternoon. i like too much the idea, so i'll code it, even if it's only for me. you'll get a copy, simply pm me your e-mail. (with 125-points and more matrixes, trust me, you'll get denoising ^^)

Last edited by Marc FD; 10th December 2002 at 22:20.
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Old 10th December 2002, 22:33   #17  |  Link
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It's not enough to have a ConvertToYV12() that supports interlaced source. The problem is with hybrid material, which you must know is quite common. If you set progressive, you ruin the interlaced parts and vice versa. By staying in YUY2 you avoid the problem entirely. It is just not realistic to think of YV12 as the panacea for everything.

I capture YUY2 MJPEG off air. Why should I downsample the chroma just to filter it when I don't have to?
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Old 10th December 2002, 22:35   #18  |  Link
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Marc,

to tell you the truth C3D doesn't do a perfect job denoising this particular clip either but still better. I will try tweaking tiya3dd a little more and also try the max values for fun...

I'll pm you with my email, I'd love to try the monster! Right now I use Peachsmoother for those really noisy caps, best I've found so far. This whole YUY2->YV12 issue is also making me hesitate to convert to AVS 2.5, might be more trouble than it's worth. Unfortunately everybody seem to be concentrating on YV12 now and forgetting about us YUY2 users. Seems to me YV12 is only good for those ripping DVD's to Xvid...?

Cheers,

@jp

Last edited by ajp; 10th December 2002 at 22:37.
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Old 11th December 2002, 05:39   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
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This whole YUY2->YV12 issue is also making me hesitate to convert to AVS 2.5, might be more trouble than it's worth. Unfortunately everybody seem to be concentrating on YV12 now and forgetting about us YUY2 users. Seems to me YV12 is only good for those ripping DVD's to Xvid...?
It isn't the YUY2->YV12 issue that should make you hesitate, because Avisynth 2.5 still supports YUY2, you just need the filters recompiled. What might make you hesitate is that Avisynth 2.5 is still alpha and many filters have not yet been recompiled and made available.
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Old 11th December 2002, 07:42   #20  |  Link
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@ajp:
You can just grab the source (if offered) for the filters in question and recompile for 2.5. Takes about 10 seconds for Decomb and MSharpen

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