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10th April 2021, 18:34 | #83 | Link | ||
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I heard apparently there are some bugs in newest resolve waveform...I'm still using older version as I have a few projects in progress and I never upgrade in between Temporarily assign clip attributes to "full" range, and you will see difference between original v210 (or resolve v210) and ffmpeg v210 . As you already know, resolve is working in RGB float. When "auto" is set and clip is unflagged, or flagged limited, it takes Y 64-940 to "map" to RGB 0-1023 . But internally nothing is clipped at that stage, it's working in float RGB. It's just the display at that point or RGB interpretation, not the actual file For premiere you can see in lumetri scopes too set to float, you might have to increase the window size, but there is clipping at low and high level with ffmpeg v210 version, but not "original v210", or "resolve v210". But I agree it is a "crap" display compared to ffmpeg waveform, or avisynth histogram(10) Quote:
Exactly what are you doing for input and for measuring output ? What decoder is being used Last edited by poisondeathray; 10th April 2021 at 18:38. |
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10th April 2021, 18:44 | #85 | Link |
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Yes, resolve's "waveform" is not a true Y' waveform . It's actually RGB converted values - so that depends on how you convert to RGB
ffmpeg -vf waveform or avs's histogram(10) are true Y' waveforms , they are measuring Y' values directly And it's not a "knock" against resolve. For grading software, that's what the scopes should be doing Last edited by poisondeathray; 10th April 2021 at 18:46. |
10th April 2021, 18:48 | #86 | Link |
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I see it now in Resolve as well (with forced full range). It shows it in form of missing data, so your line basically ends at 1019. At the bottom it shows it in some strange way, but it's also visible (Resolve 17.1.1.).
Last edited by kolak; 10th April 2021 at 18:58. |
10th April 2021, 18:55 | #87 | Link |
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It's Resolve DNxHR decoder is doing it. ffmepg waveform is fine.
Looks like anything "official" (Apple, AVID etc.) is now skipping those reserved bits and rest of the codecs/tools not. More mess to the already messy world of codecs etc. Last edited by kolak; 10th April 2021 at 18:59. |
10th April 2021, 19:02 | #88 | Link | ||
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I see it in resolve import of ffmpeg dnxhr_hqx too, but not with libavcodec decoding (0-1023) If you use resolve to encode v210 (0-1023) to dnxhr_hqx, it's 0-1023 with libavcodec decoding, but reimporting to resolve also some clipping (again, temporarily set to full range clip attribute) So that suggests it's resolve's dnxhr_hqx decoder behaviour Quote:
So not all "official" But this isnothing "big" in terms of grand schemes. It just can "skews" some comparisons sometimes, like PSNR, depending on what exactly is being used |
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10th April 2021, 19:29 | #91 | Link |
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Another thing maybe shekh can look at is vdub2's prores encoding show gaps when encoding v210 . Not just the clipping, but almost like 8bit conversion. ffmpeg's equivalent v210 to prores does not (4-1019, but smooth)
vdub2_v210_to_prores ffmpeg_v210_to_prores (see earlier post) https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...46#post1940546 |
10th April 2021, 19:31 | #92 | Link | |
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Those reserved bits are actually coming from SDI I think. I don't think HDMI actually needs them at all, but I may be wrong. Yes, there may be bug in Vdub and data may be going over 8bit at some point (or maybe some auto format choice bug). It quite clearly shows 4 levels pattern. Vdub2 is not the same as old Vdub. New features, but new mess related to whole ffmpeg etc as well. Last edited by kolak; 10th April 2021 at 19:34. |
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10th April 2021, 19:33 | #93 | Link |
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I just don't like the inconsistencies;
And I'd argue that v210 should never be clipped Clip when you have some end deliverable, ok that would be fine, but it should be up to user. But not these intermediates. Ok maybe Prores, because I've never seen 0-1023 official prores software/hardware mac, scratch |
10th April 2021, 19:34 | #94 | Link | ||||
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Thanks poisondeathray for all your answers.
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Just another question to add: What if I record with standard luminance range instead of full ? You said I should go for standard in the end anyway and during the process there is risk of IQ loss if conversion is not being done properly. My subjective feeling is always, that I loose dynamic range if I record with standard range. Is that correct or not ? Last edited by Hotte; 10th April 2021 at 19:46. |
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10th April 2021, 19:44 | #95 | Link | |
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Sometimes 4-1019 is called SDI Full Last edited by kolak; 10th April 2021 at 20:05. |
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10th April 2021, 19:47 | #96 | Link | |
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10th April 2021, 21:21 | #97 | Link | ||
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All NLE's should have 75% colorbars. I'd imagine Edius has them. Free version of resolve can generate them too. If you have problems I can upload bars later "official" 8bit, 10bit, 12bit YUV values are listed in rp219 A proper 10bit YUV to 8bit RGB conversion should give you the exact numbers for 75% colors. e.g. 75% "red" should be 191,0,0 in 8bit RGB using limited range equations (rec matrix in avisynth). Or 180,0,0 using full range equations (pc matrix in avisynth) (Subsampling is not an issue with "large" bars, only at the borders between colors) Quote:
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Avsresize eg. avsresize. "RGBP" is 8bit RGB planar z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="RGBP", resample_filter="point", colorspace_op="709:709:709:l=>rgb:709:709:f") "point" is just nearest neighbor algorithm. It just doubles the chroma samples in the width. e.g. If you had 1920x1080 4:2:2, the U,V samples are 960x1080. It just duplicates them to 1920x1080. So on a pattern, the color borders will look "blocky" "Bilinear" samples a 2x2 grid (4 pixels) "Bicubic" samples a 4x4 grid (16 pixels) There are dozens (or more like 100's) of resampling algorithms. So you can get different pixel colors, depending on the chroma upscampling algorithm for RGB conversion, but a large "bar" such as in color bar patters would be independent of chroma upsampling. But this is one of the reason why one program might do things differently tha another program If you get "wrong" colors on large colorbars, then something is ... wrong Chroma location interpretation can also affect results (one of the reasons for suggesting avsresize, one possible explanation for some of the differences you see), but more for 4:2:0 material because it's 1/2 sampled width and height, 4:2:2 is "only" 1/2 sampled width, the errors are less drastic. When you have different chroma interpretations ("center" or "mpeg1") vs. ("mpeg2" or "left") , the color borders can shift when do subsequent conversions. It's usually not that noticable with 1 or 2 generations. It's more of an academic issue, or if you deal with RGB content and graphics. Avisynth is a bit non standard, because "mpeg2" or "left" is the standard chroma siting in all programs |
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11th April 2021, 07:53 | #98 | Link | ||
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Is SMPTE RP 219 suitable for both 8-bit and 10-bit material ? Quote:
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z_ConvertFormat(pixel_type="RGBP", resample_filter="point", colorspace_op="709:709:709:f=>rgb:709:709:f") Last edited by Hotte; 11th April 2021 at 08:59. |
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11th April 2021, 13:49 | #99 | Link | |
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11th April 2021, 16:40 | #100 | Link | |
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Yes. You have known colors. In YUV and RGB. In 8,10,12 bit . And rp219 lists the exact values for Y,U,V in 8,10,12 bit For 8bit YUV, the colors in 8bit RGB will be slightly off, and it's expected to be +/-3. For example "75% Red" might be 192,1,0 or something (when using standard range equations). But 10bit YUV bars should yield perfect 8bit RGB values. It's common to get slight color shifting when improper conversion is performed. A common scenario is a "fast" 8bit conversion to YUV before RGB. You're just ruling out if something was done incorrectly somewhere , maybe some setting, some switch - that's what all these low level tests are used for - so when you're doing your actual projects, there aren't any unexpected surprises (like clipping) |
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