Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > New and alternative a/v containers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th October 2002, 10:32   #1  |  Link
Koepi
Moderator
 
Koepi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,455
OggMux 0.9.3

I'm glad to announce a new OggMux version, 0.9.3!
I tried to add the possibility to finally multiplex ac3 files into your OGM containers. Unfortunately you can't mux ac3 directly. You have to convert them into a so-called "ac3-wav" first. This can be done with BeSweet, it simply adds a short wav-header to the ac3.
This is experimental and I don't know if it works at all! When adding such an ac3-wav you have to set quality to 0, OggMux doesn't encode the wav then but directly multiplexes it into the stream.

I hope we finally have a working solution for this now.

Best regards and thanks for all your support!

Dirk
a.k.a. Koepi
Koepi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th October 2002, 13:41   #2  |  Link
Suiryc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: France
Posts: 517
I confirm that using Waved AC3 files with this version works.
But as mentioned in this other thread I have a problem with OggDS when playing the resulting OGM file : the clip is frozen (I can go wherever I want I only see the nearest video keyframe but the player do not play the clip - nor video nor audio -).

Nb : I am using the latest version of OggDS (0.9.9.5) but I already saw this problem 1-2 days ago with version 0.9.9.4.
Suiryc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2002, 23:00   #3  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
Great news Koepi... and THANK YOU very much for this new feature. I'll test that very soon.
Would mean I could mux AC3+Ogg in OGM and play it (in other players than ZoomPlayer) without having the 2 audio streams superinmposed at last ? Too nice & great victory for OggMedia addicts
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2002, 12:37   #4  |  Link
tiki4
Registered User
 
tiki4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Who Knows?
Posts: 929
Hi everybody,

unfortunately the AC3-WAV method didn't work for me yet. I tried to run BeSweet (1.4) with the option -ddwav but I recognised that it automatically downsamples to 44.1 kHz then. I prevented that by --rate 48000 and then OggMux happily decoded to WAV although I entered quality 0. Does anyone have any experience with that?

So I managed this task using OGMuxer.

Regards,

tiki4
tiki4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2002, 23:03   #5  |  Link
neo_sapien
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 241
Re: OggMux 0.9.3

Quote:
Originally posted by Koepi
I'm glad to announce a new OggMux version, 0.9.3!
I tried to add the possibility to finally multiplex ac3 files into your OGM containers. Unfortunately you can't mux ac3 directly. You have to convert them into a so-called "ac3-wav" first. This can be done with BeSweet, it simply adds a short wav-header to the ac3.
This is experimental and I don't know if it works at all! When adding such an ac3-wav you have to set quality to 0, OggMux doesn't encode the wav then but directly multiplexes it into the stream.
BeSweet decodes the AC3 file into something like a 1536kbps PCM stream, and it takes its sweet time about it too. I added a wav header to an AC3 using ac3wav_0.01 and muxed it with OggMux 0.9.3 at quality 0, but the result was a file that wouldn't play correctly. The video stands still, as does the audio. Muxing the AVI+AC3, then remuxing the muxed AVI to OGG still works in OggMux.
neo_sapien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2002, 16:17   #6  |  Link
DSPguru
BeSweet Author
 
DSPguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On top of a supercompact cardinal
Posts: 3,506
Quote:
Originally posted by tiki4
Hi everybody,

unfortunately the AC3-WAV method didn't work for me yet. I tried to run BeSweet (1.4) with the option -ddwav but I recognised that it automatically downsamples to 44.1 kHz then.
in fact, you should use BeSplit with "-addriff", but i currently disabled this feature due to lack of time to test before release.

ps :
yes, BeSweet has -ddwav & -wavmp3 switches, but no, no -wavac3.
whenever i release it, BeSplit will supply all this wave/riff header goods.
DSPguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2002, 16:55   #7  |  Link
DSPguru
BeSweet Author
 
DSPguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On top of a supercompact cardinal
Posts: 3,506
well, it seems i won't be having the time to debug it, so i decided to post 0.9b1 in here and wait for your feedbacks.

usage :
BeSplit.exe -core( -input file.ac3 -output file.wav -logfile log.txt -type ac3 -addriff -fix )

imho, BeSplit should be able to split & add riff-header in the very same process. so, feel free to test that too.

Last edited by DSPguru; 16th October 2002 at 20:12.
DSPguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2002, 21:47   #8  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
Well, what a disappointment ! Seems that it really doesn't work...

I put a WAV header on an AC3 5.1 stream (BeSplit0.9b1. See attached Log file) and muxed it in OgmMux0.9.3 (qual.0) with DivX5.0.2, OggVorbis (surround-0.400), SRT & chapters.
Resut was a 3GB file (normal size should be 1.34GB) with 2ch. audio.

BUT... I also tried same method with AC3Wav0.01 to put the WAV header.
This time output file has correct size (1.34GB) : strange thing isn't it ?! (would means BeSplit & AC3Wav don't use same method? Yet the AC3-Wav files seems to be identical : same size, 5.1 ch.)
But when I played the file problems began!
Test with ZoomPlayer :
- I can load the file but not play it (click on play does nothing). I also can jump wherever I want but the clip stay frozen as Suyric already noticed.
- If I register MorganStreamSwitcher, I can play it normally but there's NO sound : the 2 audio tracks are checked in "Language" (no way to select just one) and no sound. Subtitles & Chapters are OK.
Last thing, properties of InterVideo Audio Decoder display for current audio track : AC3 16bits/48 kHz/2ch.

Few notes :
- When I use the AC3-Wav created with BeSplit, the muxing process seems a bit longer
- Muxing just one AC3-Wav with Video leads to the same results (using the BeSplit AC3-Wav gives a 1.83GB OGM file, and using AC3WAv AC3-Wav gives a normal 1.23GB OGM file that I can load but not play...)
- I'm using latest SubTit & Ogg DS filters

I'm afraid it's not yet for today...
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2002, 22:10   #9  |  Link
DSPguru
BeSweet Author
 
DSPguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On top of a supercompact cardinal
Posts: 3,506
thank you for testing, inoteb!
BeSplit and ac32wav are indeed different.
I tried reading ac32wav's sources but got lost - too much c++ for me!
basicly, ac32wav does the *right* thing, it uses Windows/FourCC libraries in order to generate the header.
BeSplit has a different approach - straight bit manipulation.
i guess it would take some extra time until i could offer the same results like ac32wav.

ps,
that's also the reason for me not supporting Ogg cutting in BeSplit at the moment. i don't want to use libVorbis, i want to manipulate the ogg stream by myself!


it would be very helpful if you could cut the first 100bytes of the two files, pack them in a zip file, and attach in here.
i'll compare the results.

Last edited by DSPguru; 12th October 2002 at 22:12.
DSPguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2002, 22:28   #10  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally posted by DSPguru
it would be very helpful if you could cut the first 100bytes of the two files, pack them in a zip file, and attach in here.
i'll compare the results.
No prob... but just a silly question : if I do that with BeSplit, should I set "-type ac3" or "-type wav" ?
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !

Last edited by inoteb; 13th October 2002 at 13:14.
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 15:29   #11  |  Link
Mr_Music
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5
Hey guys!
Just a little question.
I just wanna know one thing.

In plain english, If this would work.
What does this new "tech." provide.

Will I be able to compress an AC3 5.1 audio track to a OGG file with 5 channels.

If that is true, how big (Mbytes) will the final OGG file be.

How big (if any) is the loss in quality if you compare the OGG and the AC3? Is the difference even notable for a human ear?

Finally, I wanna thank you guys for developing and testing and testing and testing. If it weren´t for guys like you guys, This would never happen. Thank you for developing the technologies and combining them together and creating new ones. And making them available for "lamers" like me. You are the ELITE!

Last edited by Mr_Music; 13th October 2002 at 15:31.
Mr_Music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 15:40   #12  |  Link
MaTTeR
AC3 5.1 Addict
 
MaTTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Big Blue Nation_USA
Posts: 2,036
@Mr_Music

This thread is about OggMux which is a utility to mux video and audio. This application doesn't do any encoding. You need to post your thread in the audio forum. Two applications come to mind for 5.1 Vorbis encoding, BeSweet and HeadAC3he. Search the forums and you'll find information and comments about Vorbis 5.1
__________________
Need AC3 & SPDIF setup info?
MaTTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 15:52   #13  |  Link
Koepi
Moderator
 
Koepi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,455
@inoteb:

Hm, if both audio tracks are checked you might want to check or uncheck "enable all streams" in the OggDS filter properties, maybe this helps the problem? There were problems reported exactly like this.

Also, could you try WMP 6.4 for playback and report the results?

@all:
Damn. As hard as I try I don't get the support right :-/
Btw., if I find some time again I'll rewrite OggMux from scratch, maybe even rename it to "NeoMux" or something (any ideas for a nice general mux'er name?).
I plan on making real classes/modules of everything so you can easily add mux'ing via suiryc's tools, support for MCF, maybe even MP4...

But my first attempt already failed, my list-class messes everything up for now, maybe I shouldn't use an extra class with it or I need some co-coders which help building a "new prototype" (and class API for accessing the different multiplexers) based upon the existing code...

Best regards,
Koepi
Koepi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 15:52   #14  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
@Mr_Music

I'm afraid you didn't understand what we're talking about in this thread
In fact we're trying to mux an AC3 stream directly into an OggMedia container (without compressing it). For the moment, if you want a A/V file with an AC3 stream you need to mux it first into an AVI container, and then mux this AVI into an OGM. And this causes playback problems when you have AC3 + other audio track in your OGM (audio tracks are superimposed; only ZoomPlayer allows to switch from one track to the other).
As for AC3 5.1 transcoding into Ogg 5.1, it's not very interesting as long as channel coupling is not implemented.
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 16:07   #15  |  Link
Koepi
Moderator
 
Koepi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,455
@inoteb:

Unfortunately we posted at the same time, maybe you overread my post above. Can you do those tests as well, please?

Thanks,
Koepi
Koepi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 16:07   #16  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
Damn ! It seems MaTTer & Koepi write english faster than me

@Koepi
- I had tried WMP 6.4 but get same results as with ZP (exept I can't seek with navigation bar)
- Check or uncheck "enable all streams" does nothing

Good luck for your "NeoMux" (why not "MediaMux" or even "MasterMediaMux"...). Would be a GREAT tool
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 16:10   #17  |  Link
Koepi
Moderator
 
Koepi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,455
LOL

haha, that's coincedence...

OnTopic:
Too bad that the resulting OGMs don't play. I run out of ideas what I can do about that with the OggDS filterset :-/

Koepi
Koepi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 16:13   #18  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
@Koepi
Also overread you're 2nd post. You're definitely too fast for me
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 16:29   #19  |  Link
inoteb
OggMedia addict
 
inoteb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Palladia Tolosa (France)
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally posted by Koepi
LOL

haha, that's coincedence...
Sometimes this forum looks like a chat place

Quote:
OnTopic:
Too bad that the resulting OGMs don't play.
I couldn't agree more

Quote:
I run out of ideas what I can do about that with the OggDS filterset :-/
Maybe join forces with Suiryc and build in common the best Muxer/Cutter ever seen... (and couldn't Tobias give you a hand?)

Don't lose heart please

inoteb ;-]
__________________
Black dogs are barking at the door ;-]
---
TCMP ! TCMP ! TCMP !

Last edited by inoteb; 13th October 2002 at 16:33.
inoteb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2002, 18:47   #20  |  Link
DSPguru
BeSweet Author
 
DSPguru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: On top of a supercompact cardinal
Posts: 3,506
Quote:
Originally posted by inoteb
No prob... but just a silly question : if I do that with BeSplit, should I set "-type ac3" or "-type wav" ?
you did right (ac3). can you please post the snapshots ?
DSPguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.