Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd July 2019, 22:48   #101  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
Registered User
 
Nintendo Maniac 64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
But still has $300-400 motherboards.
You shouldn't need a $300+ motherboard unless you're going to be overclocking that 3950X (source).
__________________
____HTPC____  | __Desktop PC__
2.93GHz Xeon x3470 (4c/8t Nehalem) | 4.6GHz Pentium G3258 (2c/2t Haswell)
Radeon HD5870  | Intel iGPU      
2x2GB+2x1GB DDR3-1333 | 4x4GB DDR3-1600       

Win7 x64
Nintendo Maniac 64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2019, 23:35   #102  |  Link
mandarinka
Registered User
 
mandarinka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
You have to wait for September for 16C and October for 24C/32C/48C/64C.
Yeah, 3950X comes out in september (official info), Threadripper possibly in october (unofficial rumor from Taiwan).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
But still has $300-400 motherboards.
MSI B450 Tomahawk (or B450 Tomahawk Max which has larger flash for BIOS, so that fufure BIOS updates shoudl be more painless, also this board is made for Ryzen 3000 out of the box) is rather affordable.
Or Asus Crosshair VI Hero (X370) - that one has very beefy VRM and is deeply discounted if you can find it.
mandarinka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 04:10   #103  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
MSI B450 Tomahawk (or B450 Tomahawk Max which has larger flash for BIOS, so that fufure BIOS updates shoudl be more painless, also this board is made for Ryzen 3000 out of the box) is rather affordable.
Or Asus Crosshair VI Hero (X370) - that one has very beefy VRM and is deeply discounted if you can find it.
If you want to lose ~12% of your Ryzen 3xxx's performance right off the top I guess you could use a B450 motherboard.
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 09:03   #104  |  Link
excellentswordfight
Lost my old account :(
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
If you want to lose ~12% of your Ryzen 3xxx's performance right off the top I guess you could use a B450 motherboard.
Please provide a source to that claim, cause I have seen lots of people running older mb with the new 3000-series and non have reported lower clockspeeds/performance. As long as your mb can provide enough power, the only loss is pcie 4, which I guess most of us can live without.

Last edited by excellentswordfight; 23rd July 2019 at 09:07.
excellentswordfight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 12:31   #105  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
Please provide a source to that claim, cause I have seen lots of people running older mb with the new 3000-series and non have reported lower clockspeeds/performance. As long as your mb can provide enough power, the only loss is pcie 4, which I guess most of us can live without.
Yup, I just totally made it up with absolutely no backing. You got me.

Or not: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14603...board-review/6
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 14:54   #106  |  Link
excellentswordfight
Lost my old account :(
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Yup, I just totally made it up with absolutely no backing. You got me.

Or not: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14603...board-review/6
Well... From your article:

"For our motherboard reviews, we use our short form testing method. These tests usually focus on if a motherboard is using MultiCore Turbo (the feature used to have maximum turbo on at all times, giving a frequency advantage), or if there are slight gains to be had from tweaking the firmware. We put the memory settings at the CPU manufacturers suggested frequency, making it very easy to see which motherboards have MCT enabled by default."

I dont see how that test confirms higher performance in general for the x570 platform, just that the bios settings on different boards are tweaked differently. So the performance difference will vary depending on what boards you test, and might not matter at all if you are willing to tweak some settings for yourself.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...on-x470/6.html

"The question on your mind will now be whether you lose anything by the way of performance or overclocking headroom. We pulled out an MSI X470 Gaming M7 to find out just that. We are happy to report that you don't lose any performance."

Last edited by excellentswordfight; 23rd July 2019 at 15:31.
excellentswordfight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 16:17   #107  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
Well... From your article:

"For our motherboard reviews, we use our short form testing method. These tests usually focus on if a motherboard is using MultiCore Turbo (the feature used to have maximum turbo on at all times, giving a frequency advantage), or if there are slight gains to be had from tweaking the firmware. We put the memory settings at the CPU manufacturers suggested frequency, making it very easy to see which motherboards have MCT enabled by default."

I dont see how that test confirms higher performance in general for the x570 platform, just that the bios settings on different boards are tweaked differently. So the performance difference will vary depending on what boards you test, and might not matter at all if you are willing to tweak some settings for yourself.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...on-x470/6.html

"The question on your mind will now be whether you lose anything by the way of performance or overclocking headroom. We pulled out an MSI X470 Gaming M7 to find out just that. We are happy to report that you don't lose any performance."
Try to spin it all you want, but the X470 and the B450 delivered 9-12 percent less performance in Anandtech's Handbrake x264 and x265 tests. Plop in a Ryzen 3xxx CPU in them and that's what you get. Maybe you can narrow the gap if you have a lot of free time to tweak every BIOS setting.

The TechPowerUp test isn't clear what their H.264 and H.265 benchmark is, so its hard to give it any consideration.
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 17:24   #108  |  Link
excellentswordfight
Lost my old account :(
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Try to spin it all you want, but the X470 and the B450 delivered 9-12 percent less performance in Anandtech's Handbrake x264 and x265 tests. Plop in a Ryzen 3xxx CPU in them and that's what you get. Maybe you can narrow the gap if you have a lot of free time to tweak every BIOS setting.

The TechPowerUp test isn't clear what their H.264 and H.265 benchmark is, so its hard to give it any consideration.
No, thats not what the test says, the test says that the MSI MEG X570 is faster then the ITX ASRock B450 and the Gigabyte x470 one. But a x470 board can still be faster then an x570 one cause it just a matter of how the bios is set up, just look at the powerdraw on that board, its just an factory OC. And yes, by default most b450 boards will be a bit slower, but your statment is way to generell cause it will differ from board to board, we dont even know if PBO is working correctly on that b450 board! And eitherway, I would say that the performance gap would need to be even bigger then that to compensate for the price and the fact that most board has an fan to be able to cool the chipset



Last edited by excellentswordfight; 23rd July 2019 at 18:30.
excellentswordfight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 20:55   #109  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
Registered User
 
Nintendo Maniac 64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 424
Perhaps I was too subtle with my post, but there are even X570 motherboards for $200 or less (and no I don't just mean "$199" either) so you can avoid the whole 400-series vs 500-series motherboard debate altogether, and these are being recommended by a renowned extreme overclocker (Buildzoid) to boot so it's not like he doesn't know what he talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuyuS04lD4o#t=21m01s

Of the $200-and-less X570 boards Buildzoid recommends, I'd go for the Gigabyte models due to their chipset fan being positioned lower and therefore won't be suffocated by a discrete GPU like has been reported on some Asus and ASRock motherboards (MSI's boards also have a lower-positioned chipset fan which would work just as well, but Buildzoid didn't recommend any specific MSI X570 boards, so...).

tl;dw: (these are PCPartPicker links for your convenience):


For reference, this video is the same one I included in my previous post but I had put it as a hyperlink on the text "source". As I mentioned, perhaps that was a bit too subtle on my part and it flew under the radar...

Alternatively maybe it's because the cheaper X570 boards are only covered near the end of the video, and it being a 30 minute video may mean that people didn't realize you don't have to watch the entire video (there are even timestamps provided right in the video itself in the bottom-right corner). Therefore I've modified the link so that it'll start directly at the point where Buildzoid begins talking about $200 X570 motherboards and then the segment right after that is sub-$200 X570 motherboards.
__________________
____HTPC____  | __Desktop PC__
2.93GHz Xeon x3470 (4c/8t Nehalem) | 4.6GHz Pentium G3258 (2c/2t Haswell)
Radeon HD5870  | Intel iGPU      
2x2GB+2x1GB DDR3-1333 | 4x4GB DDR3-1600       

Win7 x64
Nintendo Maniac 64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2019, 21:49   #110  |  Link
DJATOM
Registered User
 
DJATOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ukraine, Bohuslav
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
You shouldn't need a $300+ motherboard unless you're going to be overclocking that 3950X (source).
Yeah, I've bought ROG Crosshair VII Hero for that purpose (~ $330 in my country). Still waiting for 3900X to arrive, no plans for 3950X this year. Probably will pick it with next gen CPUs out, hope there will be reasonable price drop.
__________________
Me on GitHub | My Telegram
PC Specs: Ryzen 3900X (no OC with 250W Air cooling), Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII (WiFi) @ chipset x470, 32 GB RAM @ 3333MHz OC, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Kingston A1000 @ 240 GB
DJATOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th July 2019, 01:31   #111  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excellentswordfight View Post
No, thats not what the test says, the test says that the MSI MEG X570 is faster then the ITX ASRock B450 and the Gigabyte x470 one. But a x470 board can still be faster then an x570 one cause it just a matter of how the bios is set up, just look at the powerdraw on that board, its just an factory OC. And yes, by default most b450 boards will be a bit slower, but your statment is way to generell cause it will differ from board to board, we dont even know if PBO is working correctly on that b450 board! And eitherway, I would say that the performance gap would need to be even bigger then that to compensate for the price and the fact that most board has an fan to be able to cool the chipset
Still, you're using a motherboard designed to handle processors with up to 8 cores for processors that are now up to 16 cores. I think I'd tend to favor a low end X570 over a B450 or X470 even with the fan on the X570.

Regardless, I'm in no hurry so I can wait and see how things settle out. I'm waiting at least for the 3950X, maybe even for a TR2.
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2019, 15:48   #112  |  Link
DJATOM
Registered User
 
DJATOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ukraine, Bohuslav
Posts: 187
So I've got 3900X onto my hands and we made an encoding speed comparison between it and 2x set of Xeon E5-2687W 0 (Jensen's setup)

SAO3 NCOP1 (full filtering script (AA, denoise, deband) + encode)
3900X: encoded 2208 frames in 0:18:21.28 (2.00 fps), 25531.44 kb/s, Avg QP:15.20
2687W x2: encoded 2208 frames in 0:32:32.68 (1.13 fps), 25506.87 kb/s, Avg QP:15.21

SAO3 NCOP1 (filtering script w/o AA part + encode)
3900X: encoded 2208 frames in 0:07:30.00 (4.91 fps), 26553.97 kb/s, Avg QP:14.98
2687W x2: encoded 2208 frames in 0:15:14.86 (2.41 fps), 26540.64 kb/s, Avg QP:14.99

I'm pretty satisfied with results. Now imagine that there are 16 core chips will come this autumn, it will be even faster.
__________________
Me on GitHub | My Telegram
PC Specs: Ryzen 3900X (no OC with 250W Air cooling), Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII (WiFi) @ chipset x470, 32 GB RAM @ 3333MHz OC, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Kingston A1000 @ 240 GB
DJATOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2019, 16:37   #113  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJATOM View Post
So I've got 3900X onto my hands and we made an encoding speed comparison between it and 2x set of Xeon E5-2687W 0 (Jensen's setup)

SAO3 NCOP1 (full filtering script (AA, denoise, deband) + encode)
3900X: encoded 2208 frames in 0:18:21.28 (2.00 fps), 25531.44 kb/s, Avg QP:15.20
2687W x2: encoded 2208 frames in 0:32:32.68 (1.13 fps), 25506.87 kb/s, Avg QP:15.21

SAO3 NCOP1 (filtering script w/o AA part + encode)
3900X: encoded 2208 frames in 0:07:30.00 (4.91 fps), 26553.97 kb/s, Avg QP:14.98
2687W x2: encoded 2208 frames in 0:15:14.86 (2.41 fps), 26540.64 kb/s, Avg QP:14.99

I'm pretty satisfied with results. Now imagine that there are 16 core chips will come this autumn, it will be even faster.
Is that a first gen E5-2687W (not E5-2687Wv2)? What resolution and x265 preset is the data for?

So it's almost twice as fast as a dual processor E5-2687W system?
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2019, 19:06   #114  |  Link
DJATOM
Registered User
 
DJATOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ukraine, Bohuslav
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Is that a first gen E5-2687W (not E5-2687Wv2)? What resolution and x265 preset is the data for?

So it's almost twice as fast as a dual processor E5-2687W system?
Yeah, it's not v2, just E5-2687W 0 (that's how it's identified in apps).
Script - https://pastebin.com/j9GQ7Ykq
Resolution: 1080p Blu-ray (anime).
cmd:
Quote:
.\vaporPortable-r44\vspipe.exe -y NCOP1.vpy - | x265-x64-v3.1+8-aMod-gcc911-opt-zen2 -F 12 --pools "" --hme --hme-search umh,star,star --limit-modes --open-gop --cbqpoffs -2 --crqpoffs -2 --no-rskip --no-tskip --keyint 240 --no-cutree --ref 4 --bframes 9 --bframe-bias 0 --b-pyramid --b-adapt 2 --no-sao --no-sao-non-deblock --aq-mode 4 --aq-strength 0.86 --deblock 1:-1 --tu-intra-depth 2 --tu-inter-depth 2 --me 2 --wpp --subme 5 --crf 15 --qcomp 0.72 --b-pyramid --merange 48 --weightp --weightb --rd 4 --psy-rd 2 --rdoq-level 2 --psy-rdoq 4 --sar 1:1 --info --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --output "17.hevc" --csv-log-level 2 --csv "17.txt" --y4m -
I also made x265-x64-v3.1+8-aMod-gcc911-opt-sandybridge for encoding on Jensen's server.
__________________
Me on GitHub | My Telegram
PC Specs: Ryzen 3900X (no OC with 250W Air cooling), Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VII (WiFi) @ chipset x470, 32 GB RAM @ 3333MHz OC, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Kingston A1000 @ 240 GB
DJATOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2019, 19:53   #115  |  Link
RanmaCanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Still, you're using a motherboard designed to handle processors with up to 8 cores for processors that are now up to 16 cores. I think I'd tend to favor a low end X570 over a B450 or X470 even with the fan on the X570.

Regardless, I'm in no hurry so I can wait and see how things settle out. I'm waiting at least for the 3950X, maybe even for a TR2.
Then by your logic anyone using an x99 retail motherboard with Xeons are losing performance. Which they are NOT. I mean even my old x79 based Sabertooth was "only designed for 4 cores", yet it worked perfectly fine with up to 10 cores (mine has an 8 core e5-2670).

The motherboard mfg's knew that with AM4 they would have to be prepared for multiple cores, and thus they designed them with the VRMs to handle the power draw.
RanmaCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2019, 01:20   #116  |  Link
Stereodude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Region 0
Posts: 1,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by RanmaCanada View Post
Then by your logic anyone using an x99 retail motherboard with Xeons are losing performance. Which they are NOT. I mean even my old x79 based Sabertooth was "only designed for 4 cores", yet it worked perfectly fine with up to 10 cores (mine has an 8 core e5-2670).

The motherboard mfg's knew that with AM4 they would have to be prepared for multiple cores, and thus they designed them with the VRMs to handle the power draw.
Or not...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anandtech
Note - The ASRock B450 Gaming ITX-ac model crashed instantly every time the small FFT torture test within Prime95 was initiated. At anything on the CPU VCore above 1.35 V would result in instant instability. The Ryzen Master auto-overclocking function failed every time it tried to dial in settings, but it does however operate absolutely fine at stock, and with Precision Boost Overdrive enabled. Either the firmware is the issue, or the board just isn't capable of overclocking the Ryzen 3700X with extreme workloads with what is considered a stable overclock on the X570 chipset. We will re-test this in the future.
Stereodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2019, 06:49   #117  |  Link
RanmaCanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Or not...
I'd say that is more a problem of the mITX platform just not having any where near enough air moving to keep things cool or the BIOS being horrible. It's funny you'd cherry pick the absolutely worse case scenario to try to prove your point. If the board does work fine with a 2700x, then at that point it would be more a problem with the BIOS lacking, which we know is a serious issue on x4xx platforms as the mfg don't want to "waste" time fixing hardware and software issues when they have fancy new stuff for people to buy. MSI is already telling people to just buy the 570 platform because they don't want to bother fixing the issues that they created in the x4xx series boards.

ASROCK is also the only mfg with 3 phase VRM's on their x4xx series boards. Everyone else has a minimum of 4.
RanmaCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2019, 00:20   #118  |  Link
mparade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
2990WX has very low fps because of broken windows scheduler.
Does anyone know if there is any solution for this yet? The same is happening to my 2990WX at the moment. Maybe if using Coreprio?
mparade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2019, 05:23   #119  |  Link
NikosD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
Does anyone know if there is any solution for this yet? The same is happening to my 2990WX at the moment. Maybe if using Coreprio?
Did you try latest Windows 10 official version 1903 ?

It has an updated scheduler, but I think not so enhanced for Threadripper to wait for miracles.

If I had a 2990WX I would definitely try Coreprio.
__________________
Win 10 x64 (18362.449) - Core i3-9100F - nVidia 1660 (436.15)
HEVC decoding benchmarks
H.264 DXVA Benchmarks for all
NikosD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2019, 05:30   #120  |  Link
RanmaCanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
Does anyone know if there is any solution for this yet? The same is happening to my 2990WX at the moment. Maybe if using Coreprio?
Switch to linux? The scheduler problem doesn't exist there. You can always run windows in an emulator, or use UNRAID as your base and have both Linux and Windows available on your system in native mode, with hardware passthrough.
RanmaCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.