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Old 3rd June 2019, 13:43   #56461  |  Link
tp4tissue
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It would not RUIN scenes. You guys are taking this out of proportion.

There is NO RIGHT COLOR. If the colorist graded it more green this time around, well that's that, It looked good to him, he lives and breaths color, his taste and experiences are highly refined in this area, I'll take his word for it.

Now, on our end, +500 +1000k is a good compromise. We are not even that sensitive in the blue range, that small a difference on a scene that's mostly blue won't be perceived that differently.

The bulk of the lard-butts sitting at home complaining about teal when they don't even own a colorimeter.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 14:11   #56462  |  Link
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maybe they've got colourometers...
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Old 3rd June 2019, 14:15   #56463  |  Link
tp4tissue
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There are 3 possibilites.

The FIRST disc release was wrong

The SECOND disc release was wrong

Neither the First, Nor the Second release was wrong. They're all gud'


What if you've only seen 2 women in your whole life. Which one is uglier.

We ask our colorist pal, hey doug, you've seen 1000s of women, the Green one is good ?, Yes Todd, I think the green one is swell.

Overall, color is a preference, So at-home critiques are valid. However, Whatever comes out of the studio, THAT is among the most informed choices, because the guy doing it is a professional.


Similarly, in machining, back when hss blades were hand sharpened/ grinded, there was always this guy who would angle the relief angles a little differently, because over time, his experience told him to do that.

Same with the colorist who decided m0ar Green.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 14:33   #56464  |  Link
el Filou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
It would not RUIN scenes. You guys are taking this out of proportion.
If you apply a blanket colour temperature correction to a whole movie because you don't like how the colour grading was changed only in some scenes, then yes you potentially would ruin the other scenes. Just take a look at the link posted by Charky, it's a perfect example.
You can't keep mentioning all the time that people need to invest in a colorimeter because calibration is essential etc., and then argue that changing colour temperature for a whole movie wouldn't ruin it, that's completely illogical.
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
There is NO RIGHT COLOR. If the colorist graded it more green this time around, well that's that
People have been trying to explain that this not how it's done. There's no "let's grade this one more green overall". Which is why there's no way to 'correct' it with a single setting change.
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The bulk of the lard-butts sitting at home complaining about teal when they don't even own a colorimeter.
You don't need a colorimeter to be able to spot a difference in colour grading in two different versions of a same scene on the same screen. Even if your calibration is wrong, you still see the image has changed in a certain way.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 14:45   #56465  |  Link
Charky
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It's not just a matter of personal preference, the colors you will end up with if you modify blindly your whole picture with color temp or color balance will mostly always look worse than what you started with.

Just look at skin tones : colorists are aware that a picture won't look natural if skin tones are greenish or redish or blueish. So even a heavily teal & orange LUT has to be tweaked to achieve natural looking skin tones. Every NLE software has a way to do secondary color correction to achieve this.

Any way you look at it, tinkering your whole picture with white balance just to change the global "hue" of the movie, and attempting to "counter" an artistic intent that, even if you don't like it, has been carefully crafted shot by shot, is probably a bad idea and will get you weird results. You might as well put a light blue colored candy wrapper on your projector's lens

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
You don't need a colorimeter to be able to spot a difference in colour grading in two different versions of a same scene on the same screen. Even if your calibration is wrong, you still see the image has changed in a certain way.
You could even say that even with a dE of 4 or 5 (which is worse than most displays, even out of the box, when they are set with their most accurate preset), teal is still teal
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Old 3rd June 2019, 17:25   #56466  |  Link
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I had noticed that in Interstellar but I didn't think it was due to the grading. Anyway I still think that this is more accentuated because of the way in which the color correction is done in ICtCp, and even more so if no gamut mapping is done. What I specifically refer to is this:

SDR
HDR to SDR (ICtCp)
HDR to SDR (RGB)
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Old 3rd June 2019, 19:03   #56467  |  Link
KoKlusz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
Nolan pulled the same stuff for 2001 re-release.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...8#post14974628
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The trailer is a scan from the new print Nolan had struck from the original negative (pin-registration is a giveaway). This print stock is almost certainly 65mm Kodak 2383, which is the most common print stock and Nolan’s stock of choice for all of his celluloid showings.

Part of Kodak 2383’s characteristics include a warm push in the highlight regions and a blue/teal push to shadow regions. Using a 2383 Look-Up-Table on footage scanned/encoded as Cineon Log shows this effect. The interpositives used for the 4K releases of Nolan’s work, particularly the new copies of Inception and Dunkirk, show this effect clearly.
Also, UHD version is not affected since it's a scan from original camera negative, and not interpositive.
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Warner is doing it again for the upcoming Batman releases (see screenshots)
Again, UHD version is unaffected, it seems like Warner colorist is doing something wrong when converting BT2020 to REC709. Although this been happening for a while now (IIRC remastered blurays of Matrix trilogy and 2001 also have this problem).

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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
There are 3 possibilites.

The FIRST disc release was wrong

The SECOND disc release was wrong

Neither the First, Nor the Second release was wrong. They're all gud'
But we know for a fact that the first release was wrong. UHD discs are far more faithful to the way these movies where intended to be seen.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 20:22   #56468  |  Link
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Originally Posted by KoKlusz View Post
UHD discs are far more faithful to the way these movies where intended to be seen.
I'm not so sure about that tho. Some blu-rays are closer to the colors in the cinema - for example Avengers: Infinity War. Or I may be wrong.

Last edited by Siso; 3rd June 2019 at 20:30.
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Old 3rd June 2019, 22:56   #56469  |  Link
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I'm not so sure about that tho. Some blu-rays are closer to the colors in the cinema - for example Avengers: Infinity War. Or I may be wrong.

There are multiple humans in the chain.

There is no REFERENCE color grading.

No one has seen the original, because there isn't one. There IS NO RIGHT COLOR.


For example, a Professional cinema works with a contrast ratio of 500 : 1.

So material sent out to the theater is graded appropriately for that display system.

Your VA tv has 4-6000:1 contrast, Oled ~20,000:1

Whatever they did in the theater is completely inappropriate for discs meant for home display.


NOW, the team behind all of these different final representations (disc, theater, web) may be different, so different Artistic choices are made along the way by different humans..

ONE of these guys might like a little more green or a little more teal, HIS EYES may respond to colors differently than your eyes, It's a living imprecise system.


You get what you get. If your display is 3Dlut calibrated, That's that, you're good to go. TRUST your color grader, he's seen alot of movies, believe that he knows what' he's doing.

This doesn't mean mistakes never happen, but more often than not, it's a stylistic difference.
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Old 4th June 2019, 00:11   #56470  |  Link
KoKlusz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
I'm not so sure about that tho. Some blu-rays are closer to the colors in the cinema - for example Avengers: Infinity War. Or I may be wrong.
I was talking about Nolan's UHD collection (or whatever it's called), not about format as a whole. Sure, you have studios cranking up saturation just because they can, but in this case we have something that's has been signed off by Nolan himself

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There is no REFERENCE color grading.
Yes, there is. It's called master copy (or interpositive, for analog color grading), which is signed off by director, DP, and chief colorist. This is the version from which all other copy's are being delivered from, until a new master copy is created from OCN. Hence the term "Remaster".

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For example, a Professional cinema works with a contrast ratio of 500 : 1.

So material sent out to the theater is graded appropriately for that display system.
No, they're not. If it happen, then all the blacks would appear as solid gray in theaters, not as elevated black. Otherwise trying to stretch contrast ratio from 500:1 to 4000:1 or infinite for Oleds would end up in horrifically crushing blacks.

Sure, Home Video presentation is graded differently than theatrical, but usualy it's not created separately, but by downgrading the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
ONE of these guys might like a little more green or a little more teal, HIS EYES may respond to colors differently than your eyes, It's a living imprecise system.
Yes, when you have colorist tasked with creating a new transfer for a movie years letter, without input from original creators, you may end up with alterations to to the look of the movie. Sometimes creators themselves are going back to they earlier works and make revisionistic changes. But in case of Interstellar, Prestige and the rest of the package, their look on UHD makes perfect sense considering how Nolan makes movies.
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Old 4th June 2019, 01:31   #56471  |  Link
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Madshi's call. Time to reel it in.
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Old 4th June 2019, 10:15   #56472  |  Link
mclingo
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before we start tinkering with colour we could really do with some new algos for near black / macroblocking / banding / etc for highly compressed material on OLEDS.

Pretty please

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Old 4th June 2019, 12:11   #56473  |  Link
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Given how much time he's spent on projector HDR optimization he owes us. :P
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Old 4th June 2019, 13:29   #56474  |  Link
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Hi everyone,

I have installed MadVR (with Potplayer) to watch HDR movies and this is working perfectly.

Now I wanted to take advantage of the upscaling features to watch my 1080p and 720p content on my 4K TV, but this makes my PC crash.
From my tests, the movies encoded in H.265 works most of the time and the results are incredible, but those in H.264 will crash the PC and make it restart as soon as activate the fullscreen mode (so no error dialog box from MadVR).
In the upscaling settings, if I choose something like "Cubic" it will work without problem (though not as sharp) but when I choose something like "super-xbr" or "NGU", that will make my PC crash.

Did I do something wrong, am I missing something ?


My specs:
Windows 10 x64
I7 4790
16 Go RAM
RTX 2080 Ti
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Old 4th June 2019, 13:33   #56475  |  Link
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Yeah you either have hardware or software instability. I assume that you've gamed on the 2080 yeah? If so that rules out problems with the hardware..
You should look first at uninstalling your graphics drivers with DDU and reinstalling, this isn't a issue with madVR, it's your system that's at fault.
Wouldn't hurt to run a System File Check too if you're still having issues after reinstalling the GPU driver.
Also, wouldn't hurt to reset settings for whatever media player you're using along with madVR, try that first.

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Old 4th June 2019, 13:58   #56476  |  Link
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look into the event viewer first.
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Old 4th June 2019, 20:55   #56477  |  Link
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@ neodraig

Does furmark run without problem ? chk if it's power related, maybe use occt to load the cpu and gpu simultaneously.
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Old 4th June 2019, 21:03   #56478  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoKlusz View Post

Yes, there is. It's called master copy (or interpositive, for analog color grading), which is signed off by director, DP, and chief colorist. This is the version from which all other copy's are being delivered from, until a new master copy is created from OCN. Hence the term "Remaster".

No, they're not. If it happen, then all the blacks would appear as solid gray in theaters, not as elevated black. Otherwise trying to stretch contrast ratio from 500:1 to 4000:1 or infinite for Oleds would end up in horrifically crushing blacks.

Sure, Home Video presentation is graded differently than theatrical, but usualy it's not created separately, but by downgrading the latter.

Yes, when you have colorist tasked with creating a new transfer for a movie years letter, without input from original creators, you may end up with alterations to to the look of the movie. Sometimes creators themselves are going back to they earlier works and make revisionistic changes. But in case of Interstellar, Prestige and the rest of the package, their look on UHD makes perfect sense considering how Nolan makes movies.

The master copy is TO BE REFERENCED, That doesn't mean there is a Reference Color Grading, because everyone sees color differently, and all the equipment at the user end is different from that used to create the master. The entire pipeline is Relative.


The theater copy is graded separately from the home copy. It simply has to be.

Your common movie theaters have 500:1 ansi-contrast, this is a flat fact.

More controlled environments may peak 800 to 1000:1. You can not use the same color grading from theater to TV.

Even if both copies are graded with the same artistic intent, they are represent very different brush strokes.

That's why most grading studios have a projector and a separate grading monitor.
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Old 4th June 2019, 21:42   #56479  |  Link
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Please, madVR development, not color grading. madshi can take on the suggestion and decide it if is useful and/or technically feasible enough to implement.
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Old 4th June 2019, 23:47   #56480  |  Link
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Given how much time he's spent on projector HDR optimization he owes us. :P
OMG THAT was a ballsy statement! LOL!

(And yes, of course I know you were joking)
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