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Old 10th April 2019, 21:35   #55661  |  Link
VBB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
What's the proper settings in madVR to output SDR content (including HDR2SDR pixelshader) to a DCPI-3P capable display?
- now I checked the "report bt2020 to display (nvidia only)" option for all SDR and HDR content (LG B8)
Should be enough to put the OLED in "wide" mode. No need to check "report BT.2020...". "Wide" is the LG's native gamut. Really best to do this with LUTs, though. Calibrate with the TV in "wide", then create a LUT for all available SDR slots in madVR.
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Old 10th April 2019, 21:38   #55662  |  Link
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I also have a 2017 LG OLED and madVR's tone mapping can improve HDR but it is impossible to turn off LG's tone mapping, if they end up interacting it can cause issues (clipping is the most obvious).

I use ~600 nits (this is close to but not quite a max brightness), and you do need to tick "output video in HDR" if you want the TV to go into HDR mode. If you do see clipping you can turn down madVR's target nits.
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Old 10th April 2019, 23:51   #55663  |  Link
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Are the highlights all turning white (ending up squished), or simply being compressed to a lower brightness? Does it work with brighter movies like Mad Max Fury Road when you set the target nits to something higher like 1,000 nits?

Clipping should imply the display is reading the metadata as being lower than it actually is (e.g. 500 nits) and it is cutting off some pixels (e.g. 500-600 nits). I don't think that is supposed to happen with PQ tracking that can hit 600 nits. That would be more like an internal display conversion to some type of gamma curve that is omitting some information.

Last edited by Warner306; 10th April 2019 at 23:58.
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Old 11th April 2019, 00:52   #55664  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
but it is impossible to turn off LG's tone mapping
It is possible with the 8 series and above though yeah?
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Old 11th April 2019, 10:28   #55665  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
Should be enough to put the OLED in "wide" mode. No need to check "report BT.2020...". "Wide" is the LG's native gamut.
Thanks, I didn't get that far yet, I have other issues I use Auto now, and it correctly switches to bt.2020 mode with "report BT.2020..." checked.

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Originally Posted by VBB View Post
Really best to do this with LUTs, though. Calibrate with the TV in "wide", then create a LUT for all available SDR slots in madVR.
I don't think that's necessary: I only want to create 1 3dlut for DCI-P3 slot and madVR will do all the necessary conversions. (Actually I'll create 2 for this: 1 for night and 1 for day usage and switching them in a script using hardlinks.)

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Originally Posted by yok833 View Post
I have an LG OLED 2017 and i would like to know if the last experimentals builds of madvr and measurment file can improve the tone mapping of my tv or is it mainly reserved for videoprojector ?
No, you can use it with any SDR capable display as well (e.g. with your oled).
Whether it's better than the TV's conversion, that I don't know, you have to judge this. 1 thing for sure, since you want to use your TV in SDR mode, you will treat your TV better (way lower oled light setting).

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Originally Posted by yok833 View Post
What would be the right "min target / real display peak nits" for an oled ? Do I need tick "output video in HDR format" ?
Go back couple of pages on that thread, multiple users attached screenshots of their settings (based on their real display nits).

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Originally Posted by yok833 View Post
With the settings of my tv do I need to turn off the "dynamic contrast" to let madvr tone mapping do is job ?
In general, you want to turn off every "stupid" TV processing/feature, including the mentioned one as well; but leave RealCinema On.

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It is possible with the 8 series and above though yeah?
No, you can't.
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Old 11th April 2019, 11:50   #55666  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Is your issue triggered similar to this post:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...748#pid2788748
It's not a bug (or at least not from AMD), why send 10bit to the display in SDR?
"The more there is the better", it does not always go well ...
Are you sure your panels are 10bit real?

I with my PJ 10bit, after several tests, I chose to always go out in 8bit plus dithering (in madVR and AMD gpu), the work done by madVR with dithering is above to 10bit: No banding

To use 10bit, you must have the whole chain that supports them 100% (HDMI port protocols, HDMI cables with sufficient bandwidth, and first of all the display)

Last edited by If6was9; 11th April 2019 at 13:12.
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Old 11th April 2019, 13:24   #55667  |  Link
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So I know I may be the outlier here, but I've come to determine the least problematic config for my 2070 is to have madvr set to pass through HDR but disabled passing meta data, followed by manually engaging the PS HDR as necessary. This last step I may script with autohotkey at some point.

The results appear every bit as good as they did prior to this driver debacle -- No perceptible difference in dynamic or colour range.

...?

Cheers!
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Old 11th April 2019, 13:36   #55668  |  Link
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@If6was9

using up to 12 bit input support is a default feature on nearly all TV for over 6 years now.

in a perfect world even if your panel is 6 bit sending 10 bit wouldn't be worse at all. while i agree that blindly using 10 bit is not best for picture quality simply because far more TV produce bending with 10 bit input then not it has to work.

a GPU driver that is changing the colors of the image just by switching between 8 bit and 10 bit renderer is clearly not working properly.

how should someone write a color critical application with that behaviour?

intel and nvidia doesn't do this so they either both workaround an windows bug or the issue is at AMD.
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Old 11th April 2019, 14:10   #55669  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
@If6was9

using up to 12 bit input support is a default feature on nearly all TV for over 6 years now.

in a perfect world even if your panel is 6 bit sending 10 bit wouldn't be worse at all. while i agree that blindly using 10 bit is not best for picture quality simply because far more TV produce bending with 10 bit input then not it has to work.

a GPU driver that is changing the colors of the image just by switching between 8 bit and 10 bit renderer is clearly not working properly.

how should someone write a color critical application with that behaviour?

intel and nvidia doesn't do this so they either both workaround an windows bug or the issue is at AMD.
It's not necessarily the drivers' fault, but nVidia does that with the JVCs.

When sending 8bits, you get the native colorspace in SDR rec-709, or SDR WCG (DCI-P3 or BT2020).

When sending 12bits, the colorspace is NOT the native colorspace (that tracks saturation very well) but a wonky colorspace that needs a lot more corrections. You only get the native colorspace if you select "report BT2020" in MadVR's calibration tab. This, along with the colorspace bug (in 12bits, the JVCs force YCC422 internally when the source sends RGB 12bits or YCC 444 12bits).

The second issue is the JVCs fault because it also happens with a standalone player, however I'm not sure if the first one is a driver issue or a display issue.

In any case, the colors are NOT the same with nVidia on the JVCs using 8bits or 12bits, which clearly is a problem and makes calibration more challenging as you have to activate BT2020 for SDR WCG and disable it for SDR rec-709 to get the optimal gamut.

For this reason, I use RGB 8bits: no colourspace issues and easier calibration.
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Old 11th April 2019, 14:20   #55670  |  Link
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New NVIDIA driver is out : 425.31 , can someone check if HDR metadata working correctly?
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Old 11th April 2019, 14:33   #55671  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
@If6was9

using up to 12 bit input support is a default feature on nearly all TV for over 6 years now.

in a perfect world even if your panel is 6 bit sending 10 bit wouldn't be worse at all.
Instead I think at that date, most consumer panels are not even real 10bit, but 8bit real + 2 fake, not limited to the one written on the brochures.
So sending 10bit to these panels, both in SDR and HDR, worsens the image quality.

And even with native 10bit panels, you have to have the whole chain capable of conveying the 10bit, otherwise you create the bottleneck, which generates artifacts on the color palette, or band saturation, or color conversions busted
Seeing is believing, there are tests with specific patterns,
try sending 10bit, and then 8bit with dithering,
is simple

Last edited by If6was9; 11th April 2019 at 14:41.
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Old 11th April 2019, 14:42   #55672  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
as you have to activate BT2020 for SDR WCG and disable it for SDR rec-709 to get the optimal gamut.
Can't you just use BT2020 on Projector and DCI-P3 in madvr for every case?

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Originally Posted by If6was9 View Post
So sending 10bit to these panels, both in SDR and HDR, worsens the image quality.
Seeing is believing, there are tests with specific patterns,
try sending 10bit, and then 8bit with dithering, is simple
Yep, huhn knows this, and many LG OLED owners as well, that's why they use 8bit output
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Old 11th April 2019, 14:52   #55673  |  Link
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@Manni

as long as no other user group reproduces the problem you should assume your end device first.
more then try to reproduce is is not possible for me.
i blamed mclingos screen first too.

@If6was9
i'm over this topic
i'm using 8 bit myself. i'm recommending it for quite sometime but...

if TV processing would be flawless we wouldn't get any issues.
every TV in theory can do the same as madVR. that doesn't change that 10 bit has to work properly.

edit: AFAIK the AMD HDR API needs 10 bit input. that doesn't stop you from sending 8 bit to the display but you have to use 10 bit rendering which creates this bug if i see this correctly.
@Sunset1982

can you please try the "compatibility" FSE mode.
mpc-hc64.exe -> right click properties -> compatibility -> disable full-screen optimisations. just as a warning my TV/driver/windows version combination was happy about this to say it friendly so use it at your own risk... my desktop PC was fine with that.

Last edited by huhn; 11th April 2019 at 15:01.
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Old 11th April 2019, 15:17   #55674  |  Link
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Is madvr hdr_sdr conversion EXPECTING a rec709 space after the conversion ?

If I run the monitor in (AdoberRGB)/ P3 space on a wide gamut pc monitor, is that oversaturation ??
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Old 11th April 2019, 15:17   #55675  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
@Manni

as long as no other user group reproduces the problem you should assume your end device first.
more then try to reproduce is is not possible for me.
i blamed mclingos screen first too.

@If6was9
i'm over this topic
i'm using 8 bit myself. i'm recommending it for quite sometime but...

if TV processing would be flawless we wouldn't get any issues.
every TV in theory can do the same as madVR. that doesn't change that 10 bit has to work properly.

edit: AFAIK the AMD HDR API needs 10 bit input. that doesn't stop you from sending 8 bit to the display but you have to use 10 bit rendering which creates this bug if i see this correctly.
8bit in madVR and gpu,
in this way we will be safe from any problems,
the work done by madVR with dithering is impeccable.
I trust anyone to notice the difference between 10bit and 8bit + dithering ....
Conversely, errors in color conversion or band saturation with the 10bit are clearly visible

If I send HDR 8bit, through AMD RX580 to PJ, I see no bug
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Old 11th April 2019, 15:20   #55676  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Is madvr hdr_sdr conversion EXPECTING a rec709 space after the conversion ?

If I run the monitor in (AdoberRGB)/ P3 space on a wide gamut pc monitor, is that oversaturation ??
madVR does not support AdoberRGB
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Old 11th April 2019, 15:37   #55677  |  Link
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Is madvr hdr_sdr conversion EXPECTING a rec709 space after the conversion ?
no.

Quote:
If I run the monitor in (AdoberRGB)/ P3 space on a wide gamut pc monitor, is that oversaturation ??
the output of madVR is converted to BT709 if nothing is changed under calibration.
i ignore HDR here.

@If6was9
you know you can dither to 10 bit too... and there are more then enough good working professional PC screens with 10 bit.

so there are still user using passthrough to a PJ?
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Old 11th April 2019, 16:34   #55678  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
If I run the monitor in (AdoberRGB)/ P3 space on a wide gamut pc monitor, is that oversaturation ??
In theory it shouldn't, but it's hard to tell without measuring the actual display with the given colorspace combinations.
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Old 11th April 2019, 16:54   #55679  |  Link
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New NVIDIA driver is out : 425.31 , can someone check if HDR metadata working correctly?
NO. That driver is useless and doesn't fix anything. Nev said it's not part of the new major release yet. They just ran out of numbers from what he said.
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Old 11th April 2019, 17:37   #55680  |  Link
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Can't you just use BT2020 on Projector and DCI-P3 in madvr for every case?
No, if you use DCI-P3 in madVR the PJ also has to be calibrated to DCI-P3, same for BT2020.

You can use the same P3 or BT2020 calibration for everything with a flat panel, but not with a projector if you care about picture quality. Using the same calibration for HDR and SDR raises the black floor and lowers the contrast in SDR unnecessarily. Not a problem with OLED, but an issue with projectors.

Point is, I use an SDR rec-709 calibration with DVD/bluray for which "report BT2020" has to be switched off, and an SDR-DCI-P3 for HDR content for which "report BT2020" has to be switched on. This doesn't mean that it's using BT2020 primaries as I use a DCI-P3 calibration in the PJ, just that the WCG calibration will be selected automatically by the Vertex/Maestro in the PJ and the PJ will use the correct (linear) colorspace, not the wonky one.
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